Knights fans displeased with how the team has handled its star players

[CTHabsfan]

Vegas was in the Stanley Cup Final their very first season and has been in the playoffs six of their seven seasons. They followed up their one season of missing the playoffs by winning the Stanley Cup.

I'd trust management to do the right thing if I were a Golden Knights fan.

 

[3074326]

Are they winning? Yes? Ok, I don't see the issue. If they were doing this shit and losing, then I'd understand the problem.

Not like we're talking about superstars here. No offense to Marchy.

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

Stephenson and Marchessault both had mediocre to bad playoffs. Could've been due to just not having that motivation to go all-out for a team that was about to not even bother re-signing you and went for someone like Hertl instead. That team needs to get some consequences for its complete lack of disloyalty and yet players go out of their way to sign there. Kinda weird to me since I'd never want to live in Vegas, but they can also get out from June-August.

Overall, they operate like a team that knows it's an attractive destination. And they moved on from Fleury, MaxPac, Stastny, and Nate Schmidt at the right time. Probably will be true for Reilly Smith, Marchessault, and Stephenson when it comes to future value too.

Vegas is lucky they move on. we still can’t get Kopitar and doughtys dried out good for nothing carcass off our team. Loyalty kills.

50 points by Doughty? Still close to PPG from Kopitar? I dunno if I get this one, especially for Kopitar at his hit.

 

[Sol]

Stephenson and Marchessault both had mediocre to bad playoffs. Could've been due to just not having that motivation to go all-out for a team that was about to not even bother re-signing you and went for someone like Hertl instead. That team needs to get some consequences for its complete lack of disloyalty and yet players go out of their way to sign there. Kinda weird to me since I'd never want to live in Vegas, but they can also get out from June-August.

Overall, they operate like a team that knows it's an attractive destination. And they moved on from Fleury, MaxPac, Stastny, and Nate Schmidt at the right time. Probably will be true for Reilly Smith, Marchessault, and Stephenson when it comes to future value too.


50 points by Doughty? Still close to PPG from Kopitar? I dunno if I get this one, especially for Kopitar at his hit.

It’s not the production buddy

 

[archangel2]

Vegas cares about nothing but winning. Players feelings mean nothing. Look at what they did with their goalie. He was suppose to do a promoted signing for the Knights and they traded him hours before the signing was to start. HE still did the signing. Many would not. This is the price Vegas is willing to pay

 

[CashMash]

To the people saying "no one gets upset when a player chooses to leave, so teams should be able to move on too"

Umm...

Have you been living under a rock?
Fans get upset at players leaving to take more money in free agency ALL the time. It seems to me there exists a balance of loyalties, as well as varying opinions on how far that loyalty should extend.

"It's a business!"

Yes. Completely true. Technically, the contract already compensates players for what they do for a team... BUT--seeing as it is a business--employee satisfaction also plays a role. Future would-be employees MIGHT see this as a negative in their working environment and steer clear.

I am torn. If this helps Vegas win, it's a good move for them. As people have said, GMs hand out bad contracts to aging players all the time. It's certainly preferable to move on before it's too late, even for a fan.

Is it sustainable long-term? We'll see. Also... It would be kind of difficult for me if I were a Vegas fan to build an attachment to the team when it is made up of a revolving door of faces. That's just preference, though. Maybe the logo in the front is enough for some people?

 

[WhataKnight]

You should ask Vegas fans how they feel about Fleury. Because that was the big issue... do they wish they didn't consider their future goaltending situation and kept Fleury into his 40s or spent cap elsewhere and won a cup?

Ask Tampa fans about Anton Stralman. I recall Leafs fans upset he was suddenly this great #2 in Tampa helping them get to the final in 2015, then they let him go right before their cup victories? Are they upset they didn't show him loyalty?

The loyalty you're talking about is why teams often don't stay champions repeatedly and usually get old and bad after cup wins if they give it out. I mean, do you want Marner to get a 12+million extension for loyalty and what he's done?

There’s some “inside game” to the Fleury thing which I almost never see brought up in the forums but I always hear pundits and hockey blogs land on when they give the topic a full walkthrough.

First, that part that I know I saw: the Knights were playing very hesitant with MAF in net after his gaffe cost them game 2(?) against Montréal. They didn’t straighten up until Lehner was in for only game 4 (the only game they won against the Habs) and then they handed it back to MAF for game 5, trusting him with the task of winning 3 straight, which he didn’t do.

As for the part that doesn’t get brought up often enough, he was asked by KM if he would be amenable to a trade, to which he allegedly gave a reluctant yes - as is his right. The contentiousness comes in when his agent, Allen Walsh, would overplay the possibility of Fleury immediately retiring when discussing trade options with other teams, salting the deal and adding friction to negotiations on the VGK/Fleury’s agent side.

If one considers only how the individual performance of one goalie was a common denominator in the 4 lost games of a series that only went five, they made the right move.

I’m not saying this to downplay VGK’s aggressiveness. Just adding the part that gets left out of one of the more high profile moves Vegas has made which often gets called a 100% dick move on Vegas’ part. While Suzuki’s the most notable exception, I don’t really have to squint to see Marchessault, Fleury, Pacioretty and Stephenson all as potentials for diminishing returns - even as losing Marchessault in particular still pisses me off a bit.

Bold acquisitions + willingness to step from underneath a “loyalty logjam” a season or two early = “Evil Empire narrative.”

 

[VivaLasVegas]

I know there's more to each of these stories. But there's even more stories like this. The city of Vegas even names streets after players form their first season, but the team ditched or let a bunch of them walk.. The theme is clear. VGK doesn't care about individual players or their legacy with the team. They just want to win.

And we're totally good with that ... oh, and those streets are very easy to rename.

 

[CupsOverCash]

No tax teams don’t give a f***. They know their huge advantage over other teams in the League needs to be maximized. So franchise stars like Marchy and Stammer can go f*** themselves.

Stammer goes on to sign 8 mil contract in no tax place. He really got it bad.

 

[banks]

And we're totally good with that ... oh, and those streets are very easy to rename.

Sure. My post was in no way a criticism.

 

[Armourboy]

Vegas was in the Stanley Cup Final their very first season and has been in the playoffs six of their seven seasons. They followed up their one season of missing the playoffs by winning the Stanley Cup.

I'd trust management to do the right thing if I were a Golden Knights fan.

They are going to run out of steam before too long. You can only trade so many prospects and the future draft capital to keep replenishing them before it comes to a halt. TBH the only reason its kept going as long as it has is because they just had a ton to work with coming off being a new franchise.

That said, if Vegas offered him the same contract and he left over structure then he has no real place to cry about loyalty. Something tells me though they offered the same money but knowing how Vegas operates I'm going to guess the deciding factor was actually a NMC.

 

[CTHabsfan]

They are going to run out of steam before too long. You can only trade so many prospects and the future draft capital to keep replenishing them before it comes to a halt. TBH the only reason its kept going as long as it has is because they just had a ton to work with coming off being a new franchise.

That said, if Vegas offered him the same contract and he left over structure then he has no real place to cry about loyalty. Something tells me though they offered the same money but knowing how Vegas operates I'm going to guess the deciding factor was actually a NMC.

I seem to recall people thinking it had come to a halt in 2022. Vegas had missed the playoffs and there were people thinking the Seattle Kraken would soon be the better team.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

The Knights have made the playoffs six out of their seven years, have made it out of the first round four out of their seven years, have won their conference twice, and a Stanely Cup once.

I think Knights fans are overall probably pretty happy with how their team's rolled the dice so far. Time will tell when they eventually fall and how long it'll be, but they've pretty easily been a top five most successful team in the league since their inception.

 

[TD Charlie]

VGK dont owe him anything.

He was paid for services rendered until his contract expired.

Its great that you played well and represented the team well.

That’s what the money is for!

Amen. It’s a business.

 

[GrumpyKoala]

It’s like a girl wanting to date the bad boy. All exciting. Seen what has happened to all his exes but it won’t happen to you til it does.

I can fix her

 

[robertmac43]

I'd take the Cup and run if I were you....

But in all honesty, I get it, sucks to see fan favourites leave on unfortunate terms.

 

[Armourboy]

I seem to recall people thinking it had come to a halt in 2022. Vegas had missed the playoffs and there were people thinking the Seattle Kraken would soon be the better team.

Can't say that I remember that, I just remember the laughing when the attempt at the LTIR thing completely failed. Definitely don't remember the Kraken part of it.

 

[Hattrick Kane]

Ever heard the phrase “I’d rather get rid of a player a year too early than a year too late”?

The NHL is a business at the end of the day. It’s not good business to hand out long term extensions to mid 30s players. I watched the hawks fall apart because of that garbage.

 

[FerrisRox]

This is on the Hockey Empire page.

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I think fans have the right to be upset. This is how you treat your star players after they help your franchise win? Especially since Marchessault wanted to stay.

The title of this thread doesn't co-relate with the post you've made.

You claim the "fans" are upset, but the body of your posts is Jonathan Marchessault is upset.

This is a wildly misleading post.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

So has anybody confirmed that Vegas fans are actually upset??? Have we just made a 7 page thread for nothing or do these upset fans exist

 

[FerrisRox]

I don’t want to hear about Vegas fans being upset about anything for at least another 50 years. Handed immediate success with no suffering. Win a cup already. Team bullshits injury timelines to cheat the cap. Oh…your feelings were hurt? Keep it to yourself

I love when fans claim the league "handed" the Vegas club "immeditate success."

Nobody - and I mean nobody - claimed that Vegas had a good team after the Expansion Draft.

Nobody - and I mean nobody - thought that team had a snowball's chance in hell of making the playoffs, let alone going on a run.

Nobody - and I mean nobody - marvelled at the quality of the players that were going to be available in that Expansion Draft, beyond in goal, which is usually the case. (There's no difference between Vegas scooping Fleury and the Panthers getting John Vanbiesbrouk, for example)

And yet, after the fact, after the incredible success the club found by unearthing gems and under valued assets, suddenly a new narrative emerged that gave no credit at all to the job George McPhee did and instead pretended that the league rigged things so the Vegas team would be a solid contender right out of the gate.

It's total nonsense.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I love when fans claim the league "handed" the Vegas club "immeditate success."

Nobody - and I mean nobody - claimed that Vegas had a good team after the Expansion Draft.

Nobody - and I mean nobody - thought that team had a snowball's chance in hell of making the playoffs, let alone going on a run.

Nobody - and I mean nobody - marvelled at the quality of the players that were going to be available in that Expansion Draft, beyond in goal, which is usually the case. (There's no difference between Vegas scooping Fleury and the Panthers getting John Vanbiesbrouk, for example)

And yet, after the fact, after the incredible success the club found by unearthing gems and under valued assets, suddenly a new narrative emerged that gave no credit at all to the job George McPhee did and instead pretended that the league rigged things so the Vegas team would be a solid contender right out of the gate.

It's total nonsense.

Every GM even those outside the playoffs had more than enough internal assets (and then some) to have went and got all the same guys vegas got in the expansion draft lol there is no excuse and its so pathetic that fans cry about Vegas being handed a team. Just mad their own GM's are garbage

 

[hangman005]

The title of this thread doesn't co-relate with the post you've made.

You claim the "fans" are upset, but the body of your posts is Jonathan Marchessault is upset.

This is a wildly misleading post.

Who says Marchy wasn't a fan

 

[rojac]

My earliest memories of following hockey, the Leafs in particular, are from around 1970 when I was 9 years old. Growing up with Harold Ballard as my team;s owner, players abandoning their teams and the NHL for the WHA, and the emerging spectre of free agency (more in baseball than hockey, but everyone knew it would come to hockey eventually), I've often found the idea that pro sports are anything but a business that has little place for loyalty to be hopeless naive.

 

[TheBeard]

Nobody - and I mean nobody - marvelled at the quality of the players that were going to be available in that Expansion Draft, beyond in goal, which is usually the case. (There's no difference between Vegas scooping Fleury and the Panthers getting John Vanbiesbrouk, for example)

I was actually really surprised at how much young talent was available tbh.