Confirmed with Link: Klippenstein Leaving Avs July 1st

[Tommy Shelby]

It's hard to tell how he'd do under a normal GM setup. He was wearing so many hats for Melnyk...he was doing the job of like 4 guys and he had to deal with the cheapest owner in the league + the reality of being in a small Canadian market. He was trying to build a good team and everything was stacked against him.

One thing he isn't good at is judging NHL goalies though.

Good, he'll fit right in

 

[tigervixxxen]

Klippenstein's picks during his three seasons:

2021:

Oscar Olausson - 1st
Sean Behrens - 2nd
Andrei Buyalski - 3rd
Taylor Makar - 7th

2022:

Chris Romaine - 6th
Ivan Zhigalov - 7th

2023:

Calum Ritchie - 1st
Mikhail Gulyayev - 1st
Nikita Ishimnikov - 5th
Jeremy Hanzel - 6th
Maros Jedlicka - 7th

Looking at that list, it's kind of worse than I thought. It's not often that picks look as bad as Olausson, Ishimnikov, Zhigalov, and Buyalski do so quickly. I'll give a pass on Taylor Makar because that was clearly an org decision.

Certainly Behrens and Ritchie are looking promising as of right now, with Gulyayev as a wild card, but that's really not an inspiring list at all, especially with so little time having passed.

Buyalski is really the only real sore spot. The org needs to stop thinking they have some secret knowledge about the USHL because they are about 10 years late on that. They also need to stop drafting overagers if management hasn’t already given the green light that they’d actually be open to signing them. Olausson has talent, at least they drafted for talent with that pick. Maybe they could make those “in charge” of development accountable some day. And at least they signed Behrens, which is a unicorn in itself. There was no draft in 2022 and 2023 looks promising. Ishiminikov the only dud.

 

[henchman21]

Buyalski is really the only real sore spot. The org needs to stop thinking they have some secret knowledge about the USHL because they are about 10 years late on that. They also need to stop drafting overagers if management hasn’t already given the green light that they’d actually be open to signing them. Olausson has talent, at least they drafted for talent with that pick. Maybe they could make those “in charge” of development accountable some day. And at least they signed Behrens, which is a unicorn in itself. There was no draft in 2022 and 2023 looks promising. Ishiminikov the only dud.

OO should be a very clear sore spot. He’s been bad every year and even his draft year wasn’t great. Avs bet on size and a shot and it blew up in their faces.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Other than Knies nobody else has been fantastic. Which I usually don’t bring up because I don’t believe each player has the exact same career path with every org but not sure what really you’d expect from the Avs with that pick at this point in time. They’d be slow playing anyone.

 

[henchman21]

Other than Knies nobody else has been fantastic. Which I usually don’t bring up because I don’t believe each player has the exact same career path with every org but not sure what really you’d expect from the Avs with that pick at this point in time. They’d be slow playing anyone.

There will be others (Stankoven, Moser, and Doan all already showing something). It isn’t about slow playing, it is about these prospects not being good enough. The development staff has graduated a number of players in recent years. If they have the ability, they’ll be moved along. If they don’t, they languish. That’s not to say development is perfect, but they have actually gotten results. Drafting has yet to really show much.

 

[tigervixxxen]

If somehow they could draft a 25 year old at 28th overall, sure there would be results.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I guess my problem with the development is that we really don't see them develop skill. They don't put someone in the AHL for a year or two and then end up with a second liner. Mikko being the elephant in the room on this line of thought obviously.

Where I feel the Avs did do a great job was taking journeymen dmen and giving them enough skill to go get trusted by Bednar for six minutes. I really would have liked to have seen Bednar use Jones a lot more last season. If Caleb would be up for it, I think around league minimum he could be a safe bet for a one-way deal that allows him to be our 7D but also play F in emergency.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Caleb Jones was in no way, shape or form a prospect. And he only stuck around because they didn’t want to waive him.

Prospects really don’t develop skill, it’s a part of the talent base. It’s real tough to have that eye popping season on a AHL team which doesn’t score a ton and prospects see mixed usage. A guy like Stankoven was on PP1 from day 1, that’s what drives a lot of that production. On a team that doesn’t have anyone score 50 points where’s that skill development going to come from?

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Caleb Jones was in no way, shape or form a prospect. And he only stuck around because they didn’t want to waive him.

Prospects really don’t develop skill, it’s a part of the talent base. It’s real tough to have that eye popping season on a AHL team which doesn’t score a ton and prospects see mixed usage. A guy like Stankoven was on PP1 from day 1, that’s what drives a lot of that production. On a team that doesn’t have anyone score 50 points where’s that skill development going to come from?

I wasn't suggesting Jones was still a prospect. It's just another situation of not utilizing a guy enough to see if there was something worth keeping around or not. I was basically suggesting he would be the KMAC replacement. A guy Bednar will tolerate for 6 minutes on either D or F on a minutes notice but would rather call up someone else for longer spells.

Again, I don't mean to step on shoes, I don't venture into the prospect pools or theories of development often. My question when the Avs are drafting in the 4th, 5th, 6th, and on what are they concentrating on? Players with the least flaws? Players with the great upside but biggest bust potential? Or are they looking for the safest players? I assume they are looking at skating heavily but am kind of clueless outside of that. Predicting IQ for teenagers can be a funny proposition, same as maturity.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I get why they like only carrying one extra player but thinking any D can play F is ridiculous especially when you can also just play 7 D. I think they need to abandon that strategy.

After the top 100 picks I don’t think you are projecting a NHLer, the Avs certainly aren’t. You are just identifying traits in players. The Avs love guys with long development trajectories at that point in the draft, guys whose rights extend for a long period of time in Russia or via USHL then NCAA, which could give them at least 6 years. I would prefer drafting more for talent or upside, it’s not like they have a system that’s going to get safe role players to the NHL.

 

[henchman21]

I guess my problem with the development is that we really don't see them develop skill. They don't put someone in the AHL for a year or two and then end up with a second liner. Mikko being the elephant in the room on this line of thought obviously.

Where I feel the Avs did do a great job was taking journeymen dmen and giving them enough skill to go get trusted by Bednar for six minutes. I really would have liked to have seen Bednar use Jones a lot more last season. If Caleb would be up for it, I think around league minimum he could be a safe bet for a one-way deal that allows him to be our 7D but also play F in emergency.

Impact players who end up top 6 forwards or impact offensive defensemen typically show the skill early. Which is why the top guys typically have a great season right away. Sometimes you need a mulligan year. But if a player cannot produce in the AHL, they just don’t have enough skill. Which the Avs have not drafted enough talent. Rants clearly had it, and showed it immediately. This idea that production is impossible is just not the case. If a player is actually good, they will produce. Even if they are not that talented (see LOC) they should still have some production. The lack of it is way more on the player than coaches or development staff. Which that goes back to scouting.

Really the Avs if they have any illusions of a player being an impact player, they call them up and play them early in the NHL. Jost and Newhook could have easily dominated in the AHL, but only got stints because the Avs wanted them up asap. Even defenseman won’t really spend more than a season if they can help it.

When we’re talking about OO… he had plenty of top 6, PP and OT duties this year. He just didn’t do enough with them. He’s simply not talented enough to overcome his IQ and effort issues.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Jost and Newhook were early first rounders signed out of the NCAA, they both had years burned off of their contracts to sign and got NHL games immediately. Pedigree and promises leads to opportunity. For as much Jost is maligned he still played 300 games for the Avs. Maybe it was just because they were terrible but then that means it’s still more about opportunity and pedigree than ability.

Stankoven is a 5’8 second rounder. His path would have been a lot more difficult in this org. Maybe he would have looked better than Oskar in the AHL but scoring more points than anyone on the Eagles did this year and spending the second half of the season on the Avs just after turning 21 is not a bridge I can take.

Ben Meyers was terrible and still got 59 games over two years because of the promises he got when signing. He was just a mid middle six forward in the AHL, nothing about what he did there gave him the opportunity he got.

 

[henchman21]

Jost and Newhook were early first rounders signed out of the NCAA, they both had years burned off of their contracts to sign and got NHL games immediately. Pedigree and promises leads to opportunity. For as much Jost is maligned he still played 300 games for the Avs. Maybe it was just because they were terrible but then that means it’s still more about opportunity and pedigree than ability.

Stankoven is a 5’8 second rounder. His path would have been a lot more difficult in this org. Maybe he would have looked better than Oskar in the AHL but scoring more points than anyone on the Eagles did this year and spending the second half of the season on the Avs just after turning 21 is not a bridge I can take.

Compher stepped in and scored. Newhook had 20 points in 18 AHL games. LOC stepped in and produced. Even Greer had production. OO with his draft pedigree has gotten preferential treatment for the roles he has been given. Only one player had over 8 power play points last season. OO had 7 in a half season. He was also stapled next to Kero in a top 6 role. He simply cannot produce because he’s not that talented. Whereas Stankoven is legit talented. He’d be more Newhook than OO quite easily.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Jost and Newhook were early first rounders signed out of the NCAA, they both had years burned off of their contracts to sign and got NHL games immediately. Pedigree and promises leads to opportunity. For as much Jost is maligned he still played 300 games for the Avs. Maybe it was just because they were terrible but then that means it’s still more about opportunity and pedigree than ability.

Stankoven is a 5’8 second rounder. His path would have been a lot more difficult in this org. Maybe he would have looked better than Oskar in the AHL but scoring more points than anyone on the Eagles did this year and spending the second half of the season on the Avs just after turning 21 is not a bridge I can take.

Ben Meyers was terrible and still got 59 games over two years because of the promises he got when signing. He was just a mid middle six forward in the AHL, nothing about what he did there gave him the opportunity he got.

If Jost wasn't taken at #10, I do not believe for a moment he would have played 300 games for the Avs. They gave him an extremely long rope due solely to where they picked him.

 

[henchman21]

If Jost wasn't taken at #10, I do not believe for a moment he would have played 300 games for the Avs. They gave him an extremely long rope due solely to where they picked him.

Yeah I agree with that. He should have been sent down early to see if he could adjust his game. Or even better moved before people saw he couldn’t skate at a high enough level.

 

[Foppa2118]

If the Avs don't open the vault to hire Dorion or Jarmo as head scout it's a big mistake IMO. It's a no brainer investment that will pay huge much needed dividends.

Drafting their way to a better team will give them at least one playoff run, and perhaps more, that they wouldn't have had at some point down the line. Which would put millions in Kroenke's pocked he wouldn't get by continuing to draft poorly.

Their drafting outside the top 10 has struggled forever and the next 5+ years is when they'll need it the most, with a contending team not getting high picks, the cap crunch causing them to lose key players, and the core aging. Not to mention a potential reset/rebuild coming somewhere down the line where they'd need good young NHL'ers.

Best move would be to have Dorion run NA and Jarmo run Europe. That would be pricey though and traditionally the organization doesn't like to spend much on scouting, or things outside the actual roster.

Both have had their reputations take a big hit and may not get another NHL GM gig. This should be a path they should pursue, going back to their roots where they had most of their success.

Only thing preventing this before was that they just hired Klip. Now that's not a factor anymore.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

If the Avs don't open the vault to hire Dorion or Jarmo as head scout it's a big mistake IMO. It's a no brainer investment that will pay huge much needed dividends.

Their drafting outside the top 10 has struggled forever and the next 5+ years is when they'll need it the most, with the cap crunch causing them to lose key players, and the core aging. Not to mention a potential reset/rebuild coming somewhere down the line where they'd need good young NHL'ers.

Both have had their reputations take a big hit and may not get another NHL GM gig. They should go back to their roots where they had most of their success.

Best move would be to have Dorion run NA and Jarmo run Europe. That would be pricey though and traditionally the organization doesn't like to spend much on scouting, or things outside the actual roster.

Only thing preventing this before was that they just hired Klip. Now that's not a factor anymore.

I don't know if it has to be Dorion or Jarmo, but I would be happy with either and approve of both their respective teams' draft records. What I want above everything else is for the Avs take this opportunity to INVEST in their scouting department. Do not just hire a replacement for Klip, hire someone to rebuild the entire department from scratch. The thought being that if we can't outbid the top teams financially for this role, we could at least make the role more intriguing to the candidates.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't know if it has to be Dorion or Jarmo, but I approve of their respective teams' draft records. What I want above everything else is for the Avs take this opportunity to INVEST in their scouting department. Do not just hire a replacement for Klip, hire someone to rebuild the entire department from scratch. The thought being that if we can't outbid the top teams financially for this role, we could at least make the role more intriguing to the candidates.

Agreed. They just need to invest in their scouting department with the best guys they can find. They haven't wanted to before, but there's no logical reason not to.

Just from a ROI perspective, it will 100% pay off and benefit Kroneke with at least one playoff run at some point they wouldn't have had otherwise.

At the very least, they will be a bubble team at some point, and one or two good young NHL'ers could easily be the difference between making the playoffs, and making Stan more money, or not. Perhaps even more than he invested in the scouting department in the first place..

Not to mention the potential to have better drafting help them win another Cup they migth not get as the core ages. It's just a no brainer, I hope they realize it.

 

[Pokecheque]

I assume it was Willsie running this year's draft, but who knows.

 

[S E P H]

I assume it was Willsie running this year's draft, but who knows.

I am very sure (close to 100%) that Scott Harris was the one who ran the Avs 2024 draft.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I assume it was Willsie running this year's draft, but who knows.

He is not a scout

 

[Hasbro]

So lets have a look at Dorian's draft record....

 

[Chiarelli]

If the Avs don't open the vault to hire Dorion or Jarmo as head scout it's a big mistake IMO. It's a no brainer investment that will pay huge much needed dividends.

Drafting their way to a better team will give them at least one playoff run, and perhaps more, that they wouldn't have had at some point down the line. Which would put millions in Kroenke's pocked he wouldn't get by continuing to draft poorly.

Their drafting outside the top 10 has struggled forever and the next 5+ years is when they'll need it the most, with a contending team not getting high picks, the cap crunch causing them to lose key players, and the core aging. Not to mention a potential reset/rebuild coming somewhere down the line where they'd need good young NHL'ers.

Best move would be to have Dorion run NA and Jarmo run Europe. That would be pricey though and traditionally the organization doesn't like to spend much on scouting, or things outside the actual roster.

Both have had their reputations take a big hit and may not get another NHL GM gig. This should be a path they should pursue, going back to their roots where they had most of their success.

Only thing preventing this before was that they just hired Klip. Now that's not a factor anymore.

Even in the top 10 they struggled. Mikko at 10 was good -Jost at 10 was disastrous. Makar at 4 was brilliant - Byram at 4 was a whiff. Then they got gifted a 1st and 2nd overall. To me that's 50-50.

 

[jabubenice]

dude goes and drafts three goalies as a goodbye f*** you to the avs

 

[RockLobster]

dude goes and drafts three goalies as a goodbye f*** you to the avs

He wasn't at the Draft...