Kitchener Rangers 2024-25 Season Thread, Part III

[OttersFan]

Draw your own conclusions…Royster out of the lineup tonight for the Otters. Nobody else.

He didn’t get suspended. His eye was giving him trouble today and willingly sat out. It was a bit discolored.

This is coming straight from him.

 

[East Avenue Bully]

Bilecki got him good on Friday

 

[LostRangers]

If it’s quality grit the Rangers should be looking for, and Pinelli is too expensive by MM’s standards, who’d be good, inexpensive targets?

Sam McCue? Character guy. Just under a point per game. Plus player on a bad team. Physical 200 foot player. Decent chance at an OA season.

Any other suggestions?

Sell?

 

[Jives]

Sell?

Yes….a lot of fans think we should sell to build around the strong 2007 / 2008 group but it seems MM is in the buy mode to be eliminated in rounds 1 to 3…again.

 

[OnlyUpFromHere]

Yes….a lot of fans think we should sell to build around the strong 2007 / 2008 group but it seems MM is in the buy mode to be eliminated in rounds 1 to 3…again.

There’s a noticeably big difference between losing in round 1 and losing in round 3. You talk of the young players and unfortunately selling everything you have and forcing them to play in positions they aren’t ready for yet doesn’t do them any good compared to getting 3 rounds of playoff experience.

This is a team in front of you that’s 2nd place in the entire league and somehow there are individuals who are actually complaining that the team is in a good place and want to contend?

2nd year in a row of the team performing well when they weren’t supposed to and have the opportunity to put an impressive product on the ice every night for fans and apparently that’s a bad thing. Unreal. Just enjoy the ride, it’s just hockey.

 

[OnlyUpFromHere]

On a different note, impressive job by Mike McKenzie, Jussi Ahokas and the Management group for successfully keeping Schaubel under the 10 game threshold heading into the trade deadline.

Doubtful Valentini reports before then, but well done keeping that ‘A’ card slot open in case the opportunity arose.

 

[Jives]

There’s a noticeably big difference between losing in round 1 and losing in round 3. You talk of the young players and unfortunately selling everything you have and forcing them to play in positions they aren’t ready for yet doesn’t do them any good compared to getting 3 rounds of playoff experience.

This is a team in front of you that’s 2nd place in the entire league and somehow there are individuals who are actually complaining that the team is in a good place and want to contend?

2nd year in a row of the team performing well when they weren’t supposed to and have the opportunity to put an impressive product on the ice every night for fans and apparently that’s a bad thing. Unreal. Just enjoy the ride, it’s just hockey.

I think a lot of fans are just tired of losing in rounds 1 to 3….I know I am. You go all in when you believe you have a chance to win the OHL. I don’t believe we have that chance this year. London is just too strong. The more knowledgeable fans realize what is happening with our 2007/2008 group and would prefer to build around that group. That means maybe sell a piece or two this year and fill the cupboard a little more that what we have right now (it’s not a great cupboard currently). If we add this year then that cupboard becomes even weaker so when we should put all our marbles in (mem cup year) we won’t have much to give up to add 2 or 3 very solid pieces during that year.

In 15 to 20 years I won’t remember losing to London in round 3. I will remember hosting the mem cup and having a very, very good chance to win the OHL championship. Banners hung in the rafters are what matters.

Sell a piece or two AND still try to get to the western conference final this year AND give ourselves the best chance to host mem cup / win an OHL championship that year OR add a Pinelli type player, hurt our draft cupboard, lose against London and hurt our chances of hosting and winning a OHL championship mem cup year. I’m taking option 1.

I’m bring a realistic fan. If anyone wants to bet me we lose to London in the playoffs this year you can pretty much name the dollar amount and I’ll take London. If you don’t want to take that bet then that probably means we should sell a couple pieces to set us up best for the future.

 

[OnlyUpFromHere]

I think a lot of fans are just tired of losing in rounds 1 to 3….I know I am. You go all in when you believe you have a chance to win the OHL. I don’t believe we have that chance this year. London is just too strong. The more knowledgeable fans realize what is happening with our 2007/2008 group and would prefer to build around that group. That means maybe sell a piece or two this year and fill the cupboard a little more that what we have right now (it’s not a great cupboard currently). If we add this year then that cupboard becomes even weaker so when we should put all our marbles in (mem cup year) we won’t have much to give up to add 2 or 3 very solid pieces during that year.

In 15 to 20 years I won’t remember losing to London in round 3. I will remember hosting the mem cup and having a very, very good chance to win the OHL championship. Banners hung in the rafters are what matters.

Sell a piece or two AND still try to get to the western conference final this year AND give ourselves the best chance to host mem cup / win an OHL championship that year OR add a Pinelli type player, hurt our draft cupboard, lose against London and hurt our chances of hosting and winning a OHL championship mem cup year. I’m taking option 1.

I’m bring a realistic fan. If anyone wants to bet me we lose to London in the playoffs this year you can pretty much name the dollar amount and I’ll take London. If you don’t want to take that bet then that probably means we should sell a couple pieces to set us up best for the future.

But London’s always strong, year after year, and beat Kitchener, year after year.

So what happens in 2-3 years when the 2007 group is 19 years old, London’s 07’s and 08’s are just as strong (cause they always are) and Kitchener is deadlocked with them again in the standings? Time to sell I guess.

 

[EvenSteven]

On a different note, impressive job by Mike McKenzie, Jussi Ahokas and the Management group for successfully keeping Schaubel under the 10 game threshold heading into the trade deadline.

Doubtful Valentini reports before then, but well done keeping that ‘A’ card slot open in case the opportunity arose.

As long as players are listed on the roster, they can report or debut up until sometime in February I believe.

Back in the day, Jerry D’Amigo didn’t play his 1st game here until well after the deadline once the Leafs sent him here.

Not sure of the date or if it has to be made public that a particular player is among a team’s 30.

 

[Matttheleaf]

If I was in charge I would just stand pat this year. Would selling some pieces off probably help us to gain more picks for the next couple of years? Of course it would, but you also have to think about building playoff experience for our younger players and getting to round 3 does that. I also know that London is amazing this year and will most likely win, but at this point we might as well just hand London the championship with the way a lot of people have been talking about it. No point in playing in the playoffs since London is so good right?

I know that the NHL is a different beast compared to the OHL, but did anyone think that 2 of the best regular season teams of all time in the 2018-19 Tampa Bay Lighting and 2022-23 Boston bruins would lose in round 1 much worse teams? No they didn't and that is why you have to play the games.

 

[Jives]

But London’s always strong, year after year, and beat Kitchener, year after year.

So what happens in 2-3 years when the 2007 group is 19 years old, London’s 07’s and 08’s are just as strong (cause they always are) and Kitchener is deadlocked with them again in the standings? Time to sell I guess.

London 2007/2008 group is not as strong as Kit. Ask any smart London fan and they will admit that. Just like ask any smart Kit fan if we will beat London this year…

 

[bobber]

I pray he doesn’t do that. Our current picks may include the 2nd and 4th from Sudbury. We lose those if Hage doesn’t show for Sudbury. Someone has a list on the Sudbury thread with all the contenders picks. We need more to make a run. If we don’t have a strong team, the Soo also wants to host. They are doing the right thing and accumulating picks, and feel they got jobbed out of last year’s Mem Cup.

Last I read Hage was leading the NCAA in points as a rookie which is incredible. He's not going anywhere.

 

[Jives]

If I was in charge I would just stand pat this year. Would selling some pieces off probably help us to gain more picks for the next couple of years? Of course it would, but you also have to think about building playoff experience for our younger players and getting to round 3 does that. I also know that London is amazing this year and will most likely win, but at this point we might as well just hand London the championship with the way a lot of people have been talking about it. No point in playing in the playoffs since London is so good right?

I know that the NHL is a different beast compared to the OHL, but did anyone think that 2 of the best regular season teams of all time in the 2018-19 Tampa Bay Lighting and 2022-23 Boston bruins would lose in round 1 much worse teams? No they didn't and that is why you have to play the games.

I can get behind a stand pat or add a really cheap piece or 2 (import if possible). What I can’t get behind is giving away Headrick or 7 draft picks to get a Pinelli type player. 1 Pinelli type player is simple not enough to beat London so I’d prefer just to add on the cheap. Now….if MM has an import for free (Sale or another Ranger property import) and if he has another ace up his sleeve (like a Pridham - Valetini or someone like that) then I don’t mind spending picks to get a top end player as that would give us a much better chance to beat London.

Pridham - Ellinas - Swick
Missle - Romano - Lam
Sale - Pinelli - Valentini

That is a top 9 I can get behind. That requires 2 free players though which I think is a big pipe dream.

 

[OnlyUpFromHere]

London 2007/2008 group is not as strong as Kit. Ask any smart London fan and they will admit that. Just like ask any smart Kit fan if we will beat London this year…

But what happens when Kitchener has strong groups too in the past? Still lose to London, which is fine… strong org.

I just can’t understand why every year it’s demanded to sell sell sell when you have a strong group (only 4 points back of London).

Nothing’s stopping London from resetting like they do each year in 2 years time, having a competitive team, going 2-0 or 2-1 against Kitchener in the first half and then this group saying “this isn’t the year” again just like every year. Rinse and repeat.

 

[digicamo]

London 2007/2008 group is not as strong as Kit. Ask any smart London fan and they will admit that. Just like ask any smart Kit fan if we will beat London this year…

The two perspectives you aren’t considering:
1. This is a community run team with a community focused dollar driven board. The smart fans are excited about the opportunity to build around the 07s but the average fan would be furious if we sold Parsons, Ando and Swick while sitting in 2nd place.
2. My understanding is Jussi has earned a seat at the table and believes this group can play with anyone. Would they lose to this London team, probably, but if you risk losing him because you sell i don’t think that’s worth it.

I definitely don’t believe in buying, but if you sell out of fear and go all in on one year you that doesn’t always work either. That Windsor Shane Wright team had that plan and I think we all remember how that turned out.

 

[Matttheleaf]

I can get behind a stand pat or add a really cheap piece or 2 (import if possible). What I can’t get behind is giving away Headrick or 7 draft picks to get a Pinelli type player. 1 Pinelli type player is simple not enough to beat London so I’d prefer just to add on the cheap. Now….if MM has an import for free (Sale or another Ranger property import) and if he has another ace up his sleeve (like a Pridham - Valetini or someone like that) then I don’t mind spending picks to get a top end player as that would give us a much better chance to beat London.

Pridham - Ellinas - Swick
Missle - Romano - Lam
Sale - Pinelli - Valentini

That is a top 9 I can get behind. That requires 2 free players though which I think is a big pipe dream.

I agree. I Don't want to spend a bunch of picks at all, unless we already get 2 huge additions for free or next to nothing in a Sale or Valentini level player.

 

[OnlyUpFromHere]

As long as players are listed on the roster, they can report or debut up until sometime in February I believe.

Back in the day, Jerry D’Amigo didn’t play his 1st game here until well after the deadline once the Leafs sent him here.

Not sure of the date or if it has to be made public that a particular player is among a team’s 30.

Yeah there’s definitely some kind of post trade deadline date where a player can join your team if they hadn’t played a game with another team (ie: Chicago or D’Amigo example).

 

[Jives]

But what happens when Kitchener has strong groups too in the past? Still lose to London, which is fine… strong org.

I just can’t understand why every year it’s demanded to sell sell sell when you have a strong group (only 4 points back of London).

Nothing’s stopping London from resetting like they do each year in 2 years time, having a competitive team, going 2-0 or 2-1 against Kitchener in the first half and then this group saying “this isn’t the year” again just like every year. Rinse and repeat.

I believe 2 to 4 years ago London was in the same boat we are in right now and sold a couple pieces off to build for the future…..and it 100% worked. They were one of the top teams and didn’t buy but sold a couple pieces cause they knew there were stronger teams out there and they knew they had a very strong young core (hmmmmm…like a team I know very well this year).

 

[Matttheleaf]

I believe 2 to 4 years ago London was in the same boat we are in right now and sold a couple pieces off to build for the future…..and it 100% worked. They were one of the top teams and didn’t buy but sold a couple pieces cause they knew there were stronger teams out there and they knew they had a very strong young core (hmmmmm…like a team I know very well this year).

The only year that I can find that would fit this would be the 2021-22 Knights team that still finished 2nd in the conference. They traded away Staurt Rolofs (for a 3rd and a 6th) to Oshawa (he was in his second year ('03), would have been 3rd without covid, and only had 6 points in 15 games for the Knights), Benjamin Roger (for a 2nd, a 3rd and a conditional 3rd) to Kingston (wasn't playing amazing either and was a '02) and Mathias Onuska (for a 6th and Conditional 4th) to Windsor (Was their backup goalie ('02) and had below average stats after being traded.

Even if london didn't get amazing assests back for these players I find it dificult to compare to our situation simply because the players we would be trading are of much greater value to use then the players London traded were.

 

[EvenSteven]

But what happens when Kitchener has strong groups too in the past? Still lose to London, which is fine… strong org.

I just can’t understand why every year it’s demanded to sell sell sell when you have a strong group (only 4 points back of London).

Nothing’s stopping London from resetting like they do each year in 2 years time, having a competitive team, going 2-0 or 2-1 against Kitchener in the first half and then this group saying “this isn’t the year” again just like every year. Rinse and repeat.

And it doesn’t necessarily have to be London a couple years from now. As has been said, the Soo is gearing up for the next couple years.

In 17-18, the Soo was the team to beat. Everyone said they were unbeatable and couldn’t be competed with. But MM had a plan from the start of that season and built a team to compete with that Soo team right down to game 7 OT.

Teams can be beat. London is damn good. But their cupboard is near empty so they’re likely done adding anyone of significance. Then, there’s the debate over their goaltending. Medvedev is 17 and green. Elliot is a twice failed playoff starter. Lost the starting roll two years running on 100+ point teams. They are the clear favorite in the west but there’s a reason they play the games.

 

[Jives]

And it doesn’t necessarily have to be London a couple years from now. As has been said, the Soo is gearing up for the next couple years.

In 17-18, the Soo was the team to beat. Everyone said they were unbeatable and couldn’t be competed with. But MM had a plan from the start of that season and built a team to compete with that Soo team right down to game 7 OT.

Teams can be beat. London is damn good. But their cupboard is near empty so they’re likely done adding anyone of significance. Then, there’s the debate over their goaltending. Medvedev is 17 and green. Elliot is a twice failed playoff starter. Lost the starting roll two years running on 100+ point teams. They are the clear favorite in the west but there’s a reason they play the games.

I think London makes 1 more big addition by deadline. The rumours are Jett or George.

 

[Matttheleaf]

I think London makes 1 more big addition by deadline. The rumours are Jett or George.

I've been hearing Jett as well, but nothing concrete yet. Hopefully if it does happen as a part 2 to the initial trade it involves London having to send back more assets, because if it is just a finalization after the World Juniors, then London will have gotten 2 big fish for:

Noah Jenken (Defenceman)
2nd Round Pick – 2026 (NB)
2nd Round Pick – 2026 (NIA)
3rd Round Pick – 2025 (SAR)
3rd Round Pick – 2027 (NIA)
4th Round Pick – 2027 (ER)
4th Round Pick – 2028 (LDN)
5th Round Pick – 2028 (LDN)

 

[GeoBlue]

That Windsor Shane Wright team had that plan and I think we all remember how that turned out.

There was a lot of tears in the corner that we sit in.

 

[Jives]

The only year that I can find that would fit this would be the 2021-22 Knights team that still finished 2nd in the conference. They traded away Staurt Rolofs (for a 3rd and a 6th) to Oshawa (he was in his second year ('03), would have been 3rd without covid, and only had 6 points in 15 games for the Knights), Benjamin Roger (for a 2nd, a 3rd and a conditional 3rd) to Kingston (wasn't playing amazing either and was a '02) and Mathias Onuska (for a 6th and Conditional 4th) to Windsor (Was their backup goalie ('02) and had below average stats after being traded.

Even if london didn't get amazing assests back for these players I find it dificult to compare to our situation simply because the players we would be trading are of much greater value to use then the players London traded were.

So they didn’t have the pieces to sell but they got what they could and didn’t add. They were 2nd or 3rd at deadline and realized they couldn’t compete so took some draft picks instead of giving away draft picks to try and win. They thought of the future and last year won the OHL and are looking very good right now to repeat. I would put our 2007/2008 group againest anyone in the league.

I would guess our 2005/2006 group is 5th to 10th in the OHL…too lazy too look it up but Oshawa and London are way ahead of us. We have Ando, Pridham and Chromiak as good 19 year olds…..3 players of value. As 18 year old with value we have Ellinas and Campbell….might be a little lower end but is our clear 2nd best 18 year old. We have 5 good 18/ 19 year old players. Just seems like a weird year to go for it.

 

[GeoBlue]

I’m bring a realistic fan. If anyone wants to bet me we lose to London in the playoffs this year you can pretty much name the dollar amount and I’ll take London. If you don’t want to take that bet then that probably means we should sell a couple pieces to set us up best for the future.

I'm not a betting man but I'm sure there are a couple of youngsters in Latvia that would take that bet?