Kitchener Rangers 2023-24 Season Thread (Part One)

[Jives]

One thing of note London Knights always seem to have a competitive squad every season. How are they doing this without cleaning out their draft cupboard or trading all the top players away? The Hunters have some sort of prototype player they draft to fit their system. I don't think their plan is to always look four years down the road. Here MM has everyone concerned with a future Mem Cup and the next one hasn't been played yet. I think MM has to keep his fingers crossed now for the next four plus years that he makes all the correct decisions.

You can judge him based on what he has done since the end of last season.

Draft - I think all Rangers fans are looking at this years draft as the best we have had in years.

Maillet trade - we drafted him in 13th round last year and traded him for a 12th round. Let’s call this a wash.

Malboeuf trade - we gave up a 5th and 7th for a 19 year old goalie. He has performed very well as a back up. Win or lose? I think that will come down to if we trade him or Parsons by next year deadline for more then a 5th and 7th which I think happens so I’m giving this the early win as I think one of them will be traded for more.

Carson Campbell trade - we gave up a 5th and 8th for a 17 year old D. We need 17 year olds that have a chance to be OA in mem cup year. This imo is a huge win. I can see this player being a solid OA. If that’s the case then Carson would have cost us MUCH more then a 5th and 8th when he is an OA. Huge win it’s looking like early.

Ellinas - we gave up a 4th for a 17 year old F. I find this player looking more and more comfortable/better with every game. See comments on Campbell about OA situation mem cup year. This player has 2.5 years to prove his worth to his a OA spot on him. I think it’s worth a 4th round for sure. Looking like a win.

Vandenberg trade - 19 year old returns a 2nd, 5th and 18 year old Runco. I think it’s a win just to pick up a huge 2nd. The extra is gravy.

2nd switched with Saginaw predraft - this adds a 2nd to the draft which we use to draft Lam. Lam is looking awesome. Huge win.

Those are the trades. Looking back on all of them I don’t see a loser with mem cup in mind.

 

[GeoBlue]

One thing of note London Knights always seem to have a competitive squad every season. How are they doing this without cleaning out their draft cupboard or trading all the top players away? The Hunters have some sort of prototype player they draft to fit their system. I don't think their plan is to always look four years down the road. Here MM has everyone concerned with a future Mem Cup and the next one hasn't been played yet. I think MM has to keep his fingers crossed now for the next four plus years that he makes all the correct decisions.

I have wondered and mentioned this for years now. Running a hockey club is no different than running a regular business, and the teams that do this are the successful ones. You need strong, knowledgeable people in every "department". Scouting, coaching, training, executive, player assessment, etc. When I say "knowledgeable", for example, in scouting, I don't mean that it is just enough to open the "central scouting book" and see what order everyone is ranked. It is knowing what the needs of the team are, finding that diamond in the rough, knowing what the team can develop and what can't be taught, etc.

In the case of the Rangers, I feel we have been weak in scouting, obviously we have had coaching issues, and we have an executive that has not always been on the same page as hockey operations. Look no further than London to see how a successful hockey business is run.

Player assessment is a big one. An organization that can get all the parts talking to each other, discussing what the goals are, what is not needed, who can be trading for what value and who needs to come the other way.

We have the $$$ to be one of the most successful teams in the country on a yearly basis. But we need to have the London business model. There are years when we seem like we are taking the steps in the right direction. Like when Tessier, Deboer, and now, Ahokas?, were hired as coaches. And then we have the down years. This happens when one of our "departments" get neglected. I really hope the powers that be see this and 2023 becomes the year of change.

Of course, all this is IMHO.

 

[bobber]

You can judge him based on what he has done since the end of last season.

Draft - I think all Rangers fans are looking at this years draft as the best we have had in years.

Maillet trade - we drafted him in 13th round last year and traded him for a 12th round. Let’s call this a wash.

Malboeuf trade - we gave up a 5th and 7th for a 19 year old goalie. He has performed very well as a back up. Win or lose? I think that will come down to if we trade him or Parsons by next year deadline for more then a 5th and 7th which I think happens so I’m giving this the early win as I think one of them will be traded for more.

Carson Campbell trade - we gave up a 5th and 8th for a 17 year old D. We need 17 year olds that have a chance to be OA in mem cup year. This imo is a huge win. I can see this player being a solid OA. If that’s the case then Carson would have cost us MUCH more then a 5th and 8th when he is an OA. Huge win it’s looking like early.

Ellinas - we gave up a 4th for a 17 year old F. I find this player looking more and more comfortable/better with every game. See comments on Campbell about OA situation mem cup year. This player has 2.5 years to prove his worth to his a OA spot on him. I think it’s worth a 4th round for sure. Looking like a win.

Vandenberg trade - 19 year old returns a 2nd, 5th and 18 year old Runco. I think it’s a win just to pick up a huge 2nd. The extra is gravy.

2nd switched with Saginaw predraft - this adds a 2nd to the draft which we use to draft Lam. Lam is looking awesome. Huge win.

Those are the trades. Looking back on all of them I don’t see a loser with mem cup in mind.

Jives I am not judging MM. You brought up the "loser" meme not me. MM came up with the hosting idea which is great. I loved the last draft. Best one in a decade. Just making the point of how difficult it is to project everything will line up over four years from now. This year is a rebuild. Next year they are expected to be competitive. What do they do the year after? The Rangers haven't exactly been a dynasty over the last decade. It looks like they have turned a corner with a decent draft or two and a new system under Jussi. This is the OHL. No one can predict how a season will go . Look at the Spits last year. I understand MM will have offers for players this season. Hopefully he makes the right decisions. Most on here are just spitballing trades which is fun. No one knows where real offers are going to come from because some of the top teams may falter by the end of the season. I just want to see some development here for a change.

 

[bobber]

I have wondered and mentioned this for years now. Running a hockey club is no different than running a regular business, and the teams that do this are the successful ones. You need strong, knowledgeable people in every "department". Scouting, coaching, training, executive, player assessment, etc. When I say "knowledgeable", for example, in scouting, I don't mean that it is just enough to open the "central scouting book" and see what order everyone is ranked. It is knowing what the needs of the team are, finding that diamond in the rough, knowing what the team can develop and what can't be taught, etc.

In the case of the Rangers, I feel we have been weak in scouting, obviously we have had coaching issues, and we have an executive that has not always been on the same page as hockey operations. Look no further than London to see how a successful hockey business is run.

Player assessment is a big one. An organization that can get all the parts talking to each other, discussing what the goals are, what is not needed, who can be trading for what value and who needs to come the other way.

We have the $$$ to be one of the most successful teams in the country on a yearly basis. But we need to have the London business model. There are years when we seem like we are taking the steps in the right direction. Like when Tessier, Deboer, and now, Ahokas?, were hired as coaches. And then we have the down years. This happens when one of our "departments" get neglected. I really hope the powers that be see this and 2023 becomes the year of change.

Of course, all this is IMHO.

A director I worked with told me the Rangers were going to go with a London model of a 3 year turn over or something along this line. Kind of rebuild , reload and go for it. Just another pipe dream they came up with at a meeting. One thing I noticed these directors were always first in line for free pizza.

 

[EvenSteven]

Our ‘21 draft was supposed to be a successful draft too. Rehkropf and Andonovski are top shelf. Mercer and Zidlicky (since traded) not so much.

Development issues? Let’s hope the new regime can develop this ‘23 draft group. So far so good.

 

[MediaCritic]

Look, this forum is awful, no dispute there. But the Rangers fans here are generally well informed and thoughtful. A few pretty anodyne comments about Farwell and Fixter don't constitute trolling. To be frank, you're the one whose behaviour seems odd and erratic.

I will say that while I don't always love him on the radio (I do think he's generally pretty good) Farwell is a great person and community leader and he deserves all the praise in the world for that. But respectful criticism of his work is fair game and I think he'd agree.

Smart post. I even had to look up anodyne! I guess I do seem erratic here. Or is it just different? I came here because a buddy recommended it as a place to find information about the Rangers and junior hockey. But like you said, it's just awful. And not at all welcoming. I spent about 20 years with Dome Productions and thought I might have something to add to some of the commentary based on my industry experience. But posters here seem to be more interested in sounding like they have the answers to everything without anyone knowing their credentials. It's obvious that there are a handful of armchair experts that many here take seriously so the dopamine hit of reactions keeps coming. The anonymity made me call it trolling, which probably isn't fair (and I'm doing the same under an online handle but when in Rome...). Anyway, nobody needs my life story. This place isn't anywhere near as informative as I was told it was and it certainly isn't a welcoming place for newcomers. I'll just go back to real life.

 

[MediaCritic]

Everyone knows the Rangers do not employ Brown. You really don't have to tell us. Brown and other media folk surely get some perks by being associated with the team. Farwell loves his lunches in the Media Rooms. Just asked the little guy. I am also sure if a "sports reporter" writes too many negative articles he will either be ignored or replaced at the behest of the Rangers powers that be in charge of such things. Last we heard Jeff Hicks he was a garden reporter. As a Media Critic I am sure you know this. Correct? PS , Notice Bill Doucet wrote the article in the Record for last nights game. Maybe Brownie is on vaca?

I have no idea what Jeff Hicks is doing now but I do know you're perpetuating another myth by saying that Brown and other media folk get perks by "being associated with the team." They get perks because they're accredited members of CHL media. As long as you consider perks to be free access to games (which is their workplace) and some coffee and pizza or other food sometimes. Some of the food does look good but it has nothing to do with being associated with the team. When I worked in TV production we had some pretty wicked catering when we were on-location. I guess you could call it a perk. It was certainly better then anything I could cook on my own. I like Bill Doucet's writing.

 

[MediaCritic]

The radio guys (Farwell and sidekick) are employed by the team I believe. In any case they both travel on the team bus. Brown has mentioned several times he drives himself to remain an arm's length and objective.

I doubt Brown's been replaced. I think he's too respected on the OHL beat. Possibly vacation or something else that needs his attention. Although the way local coverage is headed with newspapers across the country, anything is possible.

Sigh. The radio guys are employed by the radio station. The TV guys are employed by the TV station. The newspaper guys are employed by the newspaper. Buh bye.

 

[Ward Cornell]

Smart post. I even had to look up anodyne! I guess I do seem erratic here. Or is it just different? I came here because a buddy recommended it as a place to find information about the Rangers and junior hockey. But like you said, it's just awful. And not at all welcoming. I spent about 20 years with Dome Productions and thought I might have something to add to some of the commentary based on my industry experience. But posters here seem to be more interested in sounding like they have the answers to everything without anyone knowing their credentials. It's obvious that there are a handful of armchair experts that many here take seriously so the dopamine hit of reactions keeps coming. The anonymity made me call it trolling, which probably isn't fair (and I'm doing the same under an online handle but when in Rome...). Anyway, nobody needs my life story. This place isn't anywhere near as informative as I was told it was and it certainly isn't a welcoming place for newcomers. I'll just go back to real life.

As you said to Rangersblues...buh bye.

 

[rangersblues]

Development issues? Let’s hope the new regime can develop this ‘23 draft group. So far so good.

Development is the key to the London model. It means you don't have to empty the cupboard like Kitchener did last season in what's perceived as a go for it year. And when you trade players away to replenish your cupboard (or guys that aren't high on your depth chart) they are often valued higher and bring back high returns.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Smart post. I even had to look up anodyne! I guess I do seem erratic here. Or is it just different? I came here because a buddy recommended it as a place to find information about the Rangers and junior hockey. But like you said, it's just awful. And not at all welcoming. I spent about 20 years with Dome Productions and thought I might have something to add to some of the commentary based on my industry experience. But posters here seem to be more interested in sounding like they have the answers to everything without anyone knowing their credentials. It's obvious that there are a handful of armchair experts that many here take seriously so the dopamine hit of reactions keeps coming. The anonymity made me call it trolling, which probably isn't fair (and I'm doing the same under an online handle but when in Rome...). Anyway, nobody needs my life story. This place isn't anywhere near as informative as I was told it was and it certainly isn't a welcoming place for newcomers. I'll just go back to real life.

I think you maybe need to go back and read your posts here lol. I've been here a very long time and have only seen you commenting in here being quite snarky when people have criticized Farwell et al. in the local hockey media industry. Now it sounds like you're extremely bitter because you received a similar response and because people aren't deferring to your claimed credentialed opinion.

 

[Habsrule]

The main reason why the London Knights are the measuring stick for the league is because of their stability.

When you have the same coaches and GM for years upon years upon years it gives consistency. The scouts know that types of players that the coaches look for, they never have to clear their draft cupboards to make a run for it. Plus because of the good reputation that you build as an organization more players are willing to commit to them and NHL teams take notice of their players more.

Kitchener has not had any consistency with coaching for a long time. We all love Ahokas but let’s be real here and the Kitchener Rangers are just a stepping stone for him to go to the pros. With Kitchener playing this good I’m certain that NHL organizations are taking notice.

Take Pete Deboer for an example. He coached Kitchener from 2002-2008. Six seasons. He won two championships in 2003 and 2008. Neither of those teams did they have to go all in to make their playoff runs and trade away their draft capital. They had built a good team and then made some minor improvements to make them better. That is the London model right there.

 

[robertmac43]

How long do we ride this one out?

I know many are on the sell train and I tend to agree. Over the years we have missed opportunities to restock the cupboard and end up just middling. Just feels at 7-3 this group has earned some time to play it out together.

 

[rangersblues]

How long do we ride this one out?

I know many are on the sell train and I tend to agree. Over the years we have missed opportunities to restock the cupboard and end up just middling. Just feels at 7-3 this group has earned some time to play it out together.

They've earned time but I think it has to happen. It's a good team but not a real contender. The older players deserve a chance to play on a contender this year. The younger players deserve to play on a contender in the future. The fans deserve a contender too.

 

[Habsrule]

How long do we ride this one out?

I know many are on the sell train and I tend to agree. Over the years we have missed opportunities to restock the cupboard and end up just middling. Just feels at 7-3 this group has earned some time to play it out together.

I am in the group that thinks that this should be a sell off year. I get it that Kitchener is off to a hot start but they have played over their heads so far this year. Having four players at almost a two points per game pace is not sustainable. I say that before even getting Mesar who could be a points machine and make me eat my words.

In all reality though Kitchener could try to make something out of this season and only do a small sell off. Their are more tradable assets now than what we were thinking heading into the season.

Brzustewicz will be traded. The Rangers future draft picks is pretty thin. Trading Brzustewicz would restock it back to around what teams start with. He is the trade that could get Kitchener’s draft capital back to around one pick per round (first four rounds) for the next three years.

I figure that a goalie will be traded come the deadline. It’s not good to carry two 19 year olds when in a rebuild. I don’t think we know what really happened with DiFilece so getting Malbouef was a necessity. One should be shipped out for insurance to a contender. I can’t see either getting a huge return as the goalie market is always soft.

For the overagers it all depends if contenders find Martin, Sop or Motew as significant upgrades to their own overagers. Two years ago Xhekaj went for Mutter, two 2nd and two 3rds. Last year Kitchener traded for Moore and it cost them Serpa, 2nd, 3rd and 8th. Martin plays that big and physical game that suits the playoffs. Sop has been a point producer this year and if he is in the top 10 in points I am sure that other teams would be inquiring. Motew is just a steady defencemen. I’m not sure he would be the difference maker for a team but he could be an upgrade if a team is weaker on defence and has a lesser overage there.

Mesar is a possibility but unless he really plays well and produces it is hard to trade imports. You need to take one back.

That leaves the 19 year olds. Swick, Miseljevic and Pugliese. I think that if you are going to look at the big picture and look towards next year already then Swick, Misaljevic and one of the goalies would be the overagers. If Pugliese would be the off man out then maybe he gets traded to a team looking for depth. I can’t see him with a lot of trade value though. Or the other option is to try to cash in on Swick or Miseljevic and see if a team would look to trade for one of them and get a year and a half out of them.

Rehkopf will bring in a boatload. You could trade him this year and get a lot or they could wait until next year and get a lot. I’d rather trade him this year and just accelerate the rebuild faster but I could see management wanting to keep him around. With how good he is playing he will have fans buy tickets, buy jerseys and get that playoff revenue. If they are thinking financially and that without Rehkopf they would be out in 4 or 5 games in the playoffs but if they keep him they will get to game 6 or 7. With very basic quick math at $25 a ticket and 6,000 seats that is $150,000 a home playoff game. Yes there are a lot of fees involved with running the rink and paying for everything but that is still a big chunk of money per home playoff game. I can easily see them moving him next year because of that.

 

[RB76]

With the Eastern conference wide-open, Mississauga’s hot start could make them a serious buyer. They have a bevy of draft capital to make it work and could be an interesting trade partner if they make Ivankovic available.

 

[Ward Cornell]

Excellent post Habsrule!

The one bonus of trading Rehkopf this yr is theres a greater possibilty of acquiring a cpl of really good 16 or 17 yr old players along with a good haul of picks.

Some have talked about the so called London model, but for me it's taking a realistic look at your teams playoff chances. If the Hunter's think they could max out as a second round playoff exit, then they sell hard and settle for a first round exit. While they acquire multiple high draft picks. It seems every draft they have a min of 7 picks in the top 5 rounds. All this takes is some honest evaluation of your teams chances.
Let's get out of the hamster wheel and sell this yr.

 

[EvenSteven]

Excellent post Habsrule!

The one bonus of trading Rehkopf this yr is theres a greater possibilty of acquiring a cpl of really good 16 or 17 yr old players along with a good haul of picks.

Some have talked about the so called London model, but for me it's taking a realistic look at your teams playoff chances. If the Hunter's think they could max out as a second round playoff exit, then they sell hard and settle for a first round exit. While they acquire multiple high draft picks. It seems every draft they have a min of 7 picks in the top 5 rounds. All this takes is some honest evaluation of your teams chances.
Let's get out of the hamster wheel and sell this yr.

Agreed. We have to fill in the draft cupboard. We need to add at least a couple more good 07’s plus multiple picks in the next two drafts.

Here’s an example as to how that can happen:

Possible two part Carson Rehkopf deal.

To Sudbury:
Rehkropf.

To Kitchener:
C- Caden Taylor (1st round ‘23 draft)
2nd ‘24 (Kit)
2nd ‘25 (King)
3rd ‘24 (Ham)
3rd ‘27 (Sud)
4th ‘27. (Sud)

Off season

D- Nolan Jackson (2nd round ‘23 draft)
For
3rd ‘27 (Kit)
4th ‘26 (Kit)

After the dust settles, the deal becomes Rehkropf for Taylor, Jackson, 2x2nds. 3rd.

In comparison to the Owen Beck deal, I’d rather have an ‘07 player (Jackson) along with Taylor instead of an ‘06 player (ie. the DeZoete portion of the Beck deal). And, Sudbury may be quicker to give up Jackson over an ‘06 like Walton or Gaulton should they try to contend again next year.

This is why I think we move Rehkopf this year. This type of return cannot happen for 0.5 years of Rehkopf next year.

 

[bobber]

Reading Habsrule's post I wonder also how much finances will play into MM's decisions as far as trades go? I think they still owe money for the reno. Will they push for a playoff round at the very least. As armchair coaches and GM's we do our deals on this site. MM may have other influences behind the scenes that have to factor into trades in the real world. Anyhow the team needs to rebuild after last season. It will be exciting to see what happens here in KW down the road. Missy made some astute deals last year and now seem to be positioned for a run already.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Excellent post Habsrule!

The one bonus of trading Rehkopf this yr is theres a greater possibilty of acquiring a cpl of really good 16 or 17 yr old players along with a good haul of picks.

Some have talked about the so called London model, but for me it's taking a realistic look at your teams playoff chances. If the Hunter's think they could max out as a second round playoff exit, then they sell hard and settle for a first round exit. While they acquire multiple high draft picks. It seems every draft they have a min of 7 picks in the top 5 rounds. All this takes is some honest evaluation of your teams chances.
Let's get out of the hamster wheel and sell this yr.

There are only so many contenders and so many 1st rounders. Unless you can get a grade A 17 year old former 1st (or player who has become a top young guy) and a 1st from this year, you wait on Rehkopf. Splitting our assets into sell offs in 2 different years doubles the potentially available pool of 1st rounders as well as good 17 year olds.

The market will be there for him next year and would still involve one of these types of players; I've not seen anything yet to suggest the market will be strong enough to maximize the value on all of those players this year. The contenders this year will be different from next year, meaning different teams young players/1st rounders will be available than this year.
Waiting a year and getting a first rounder this year and next year sets you up for future sell-off's as well. We have a chance, if we do things right, to set the foundation for future runs and sell offs that will continue to pay dividends through future cycles.

 

[bobber]

With two OHL squads being in the Mem Cup this season it will likely be a lively deadline.
GMs will look at strengths and weaknesses. If a team is deemed strong enough say in the 2nd half they will possibly only tweak their line up and leave the team as is. I am sure a couple of older teams will take a shot and try to trade their way into contention. There will also be a bunch of sellers in the mix. Rangers would just be one of them. It will be interesting to see how this effects the number of deals made in an OHL Mem Cup season?

 

[EvenSteven]

It will be interesting to see how this effects the number of deals made in an OHL Mem Cup season?

Last time this league hosted there were a ton of 2nds swapped around as multiple teams went all in.

I’d expect the same this year which could mean we could move multiple grads along with Rehkropf for very good return.

As I said in an earlier post, unless the goal is an ‘08 1st rounder in a Rehkropf deal, then moving him this year maximizes his return.

 

[Habsrule]

I’m just waiting until December and when teams can start to trade their 16 year old first round draft picks. I think then is when the trade floods will open.

As of today there are eight teams under .500 so far. Yes it is only 9-11 games into the season so a smaller sample size. But I can see a lot of teams selling this year making it harder for Kitchener to maximize their returns.

 

[Gondrex]

October 12th interview with Saginaw GM Dave Drinkill here for anyone who may be interested......


"They [other team GM's] definitely have my number with players that might be available and I will keep checking in."

From the interview it sounds like he would prefer to make deals early. Not sure where MM stands on Brzustewicz now. This whole thing about the team doing much better than anticipated and Mesar coming back may start changing things for him. Also, how does a GM explain to the common Ranger fan that he is trading his top D-man (and current league leader in points) away? Most of us here get it, but an STH that brings his star-adoring kids every Friday night may not be so understanding.....not to mention the guy who tallies up gate receipts as was mentioned.

MM has his core of 07's in place but definitely needs a bunch of future picks. Brzustewicz will be gone next year, and hanging on to him would arguably be a blown opportunity. Will be interesting to see how things shake out.

 

[RangerNation]

I’m just waiting until December and when teams can start to trade their 16 year old first round draft picks. I think then is when the trade floods will open.

As of today there are eight teams under .500 so far. Yes it is only 9-11 games into the season so a smaller sample size. But I can see a lot of teams selling this year making it harder for Kitchener to maximize their returns.

Which makes me think MM is going for a 2 part sell. There will still by buyers next year. This may be more of a restructure than rebuild the way things are going.