Kitchener Rangers 2022-23 Season Thread (Part 2)

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bobber

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Jan 21, 2013
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Kitchener Ontario
Every once in a while you see players on NHL teams the Rangers took flyers on that never gave them a sniff. It's great when they decide to play here. Players have agents that know the league. Parents are well informed about the different franchises and how they treat and develop players. Rangers seem to have a good reputation as far as a safe environment for their sons. They all have the dream that their sons play pro. Development is a huge factor. Not many players make it to that level but I am sure it factors in when teams come calling OHL draft eligible players. There are a lot of letters go out to OHL teams telling them not to draft their kids. Would be nice to see the Rangers do a better job at developing players and see some in the NHL going forward.
 
Mar 12, 2009
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Team down. Attendance down. Season Tickets down. = Revenue down
From a business viewpoint, I don't think MM had any other choice than to go all in.

For next season, he absolutely needs to land TWO top end first picks in the draft and make his 3rd and 4ths count. No worries about goalies. That's covered. Getting Longacre to report would be a bonus.

Here are some interesting stats as of today:
View attachment 630192
View attachment 630193

PENALTY MINUTES OVERALL
View attachment 630194
We aren't taking Xhekaj type of intimidating the other team penalties either, just a lot of stupid chincy retaliation and a lot of one of our OAs getting misconducts for yapping at the refs.
 

Ward Cornell

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Dec 22, 2007
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Looking down the road. Wouldn't it be great to see the powers that be in KTown running the Rangers build a team up through the draft. Similar to what Ottawa or Hamilton has done previously as an example. Then when they decide to make a run you have the assets to buy to strengthen your top lines and defense. In the aftermath the franchise still has picks left in the cupboard to pick up the skilled prospects coming into the league the following season. This instead of trying to turn a faltering team into a contender using players other teams developed. It is a risky business. In reality this season version of the Rangers had nothing to offer if they decided to sell that would have filled the coffers. GMs of other squads weren't giving up there young prospects and picks for under performing Ranger players.

Hammer meet nail Bob....well said.
 
Mar 12, 2009
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Still not worth all those picks.
Some said the same thing about Smith and his lack of production when traded for (even with the physicality he was going to bring, many were not very happy with it).
I think the price was a bit rich, but we won't know if it was worth it for a bit yet...and imo it doesn't matter as long as you trade Bruztewicz and Rehkopf when the time comes; when they are traded they should easily be better pieces than the majority of what has been moved this year.
 
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Gondrex

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Apr 10, 2017
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Still not worth all those picks.

Definitely a high price. Then again, on paper a Zhilkin-Pinelli-Mesar / Rehkopf, Bruztewicz PP looks pretty promising.....assuming that is how the main unit gets assembled. If your special teams do well game in and game out, it can produce quite a few W's along the way. We'll see if it works out that way here.
 
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Jives

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Jan 6, 2018
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Recoup the picks next year.

2003 (OA next year)
Pinelli - AHL 95%
Arcuri - AHL 90% - Dallas is deep in prospects. So maybe it’s lower then 90%
Schmidt - AHL 85%
Martin - AHL 40%
Motew - good OA dman
Sop - good OA Forward
Hollet- ok OA dman

2004 (19 year old next year)
Mesar - return up to Montreal. I’d say a little less then 50/50 to return but I think it’s right around a coin flip.
Hunter B. - he will be 1 of the best (if not the best) dman available for trade.
Hamara - return 80%. Good dman.
Swick - will get lots of ice time early in season to built up his trade value.
Misaljevic and Pugliese - ice time will be up. Hopefully a decent start but I’m guessing not much return in trade.
Parson and Vandenberg - 100% zero point in having 2 19 year old goalies. Trade whoever has more value as we will be in full tank mode. Let the lesser value goalie guide the rookie goalie.

2005 (18 year old but OA when we should be going for it)
Rehkopf - I trade him 100% next season and not the season after. Higher trade value, help the tank if he isn’t on your team and 100% take away the chance he makes nhl at 19 and you get nothing in return. I know…slim chance he does make it but I ain’t taking the chance he has an amazing season next year and works his ass off in the summer and goes into nhl camp jacked and makes a team.
Andonovski, Zidlicky, Morey, Scott, Mercer and Morey - hold them all and see what the next 2 years bring for them. We will need 3 OA out of this group when going for it next. I think Andonovski and Zidlicky have the best chance to be solid OA players out of this bunch.

I see where MM is talking about recouping lots of picks.
 

Houndzfan20

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Oct 31, 2017
643
634
Recoup the picks next year.

2003 (OA next year)
Pinelli - AHL 95%
Arcuri - AHL 90% - Dallas is deep in prospects. So maybe it’s lower then 90%
Schmidt - AHL 85%
Martin - AHL 40%
Motew - good OA dman
Sop - good OA Forward
Hollet- ok OA dman

2004 (19 year old next year)
Mesar - return up to Montreal. I’d say a little less then 50/50 to return but I think it’s right around a coin flip.
Hunter B. - he will be 1 of the best (if not the best) dman available for trade.
Hamara - return 80%. Good dman.
Swick - will get lots of ice time early in season to built up his trade value.
Misaljevic and Pugliese - ice time will be up. Hopefully a decent start but I’m guessing not much return in trade.
Parson and Vandenberg - 100% zero point in having 2 19 year old goalies. Trade whoever has more value as we will be in full tank mode. Let the lesser value goalie guide the rookie goalie.

2005 (18 year old but OA when we should be going for it)
Rehkopf - I trade him 100% next season and not the season after. Higher trade value, help the tank if he isn’t on your team and 100% take away the chance he makes nhl at 19 and you get nothing in return. I know…slim chance he does make it but I ain’t taking the chance he has an amazing season next year and works his ass off in the summer and goes into nhl camp jacked and makes a team.
Andonovski, Zidlicky, Morey, Scott, Mercer and Morey - hold them all and see what the next 2 years bring for them. We will need 3 OA out of this group when going for it next. I think Andonovski and Zidlicky have the best chance to be solid OA players out of this bunch.

I see where MM is talking about recouping lots of picks.
i would think Mesar would be in the A next year if he doesn't make Montreal. not sure if the O would be the place for him.
 

OMG67

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Sep 1, 2013
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i think savard is more effective then zhilkin and cheeper

The only advantage of Zhilkin is he is a centre. If a team is actively looking at the centre position then I can understand the acquisition but from a pure performance basis, especially a complimentary piece more specifically capable of playoff success, savard is the better acquisition, even at same cost.
 
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EvenSteven

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Sep 3, 2009
8,070
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DeBoer left the team in a lot better shape than we will be going into next year.

DeBoer left a couple pretty good OA’s that we were able to package in the sell off for good return in Mashinter and Shutron. In comparison, we’ll have Martin, Sop, and Motew. Decent but after comparing Mashinter/Martin, there’s no Shutron in the other two. But they should bring back something.

The returning 19 year old group was simply outstanding. (Bortuzzo, Kelly, Unice, Dzielski, and Timmins). We sold off some of those for good return. Our 04 group will be underwhelming in comparison. (Brzustewicz, Hamara, Parsons and not much else). But Hamara could go the way of Boedker (turn pro early). He didn’t return for his 19 year old season and unlike Boedker, Hamara can play AHL.

The 2008 draft class was decent. We went into that draft with: 1st, 3rd, 4th etc. Out of that draft, DeBoer came up with Skinner, Aleardi, Prince, Morrison, and Crescenzi. That was a decent haul.

Going into the next draft, if we’re done dealing, we have 1st, 1st, 3rd, 4th.
At worst, if MM should turn the combination of our two 1sts into what Skinner gave us. But since we have such a poor returning group, MM needs to hit it out of the park with these two 1sts.

Give us a Pinelli / Rehkopf comparable duo and that would take some of the bad smell away going forward. If one of those picks, or heaven forbid both turns out to be a LeBlanc or Valade, we may as well have not had the second 1st rounder to begin with.

I don’t see how we could acquire another high pick for this draft. Either now or during the week leading up to the draft. Anyone on this roster we won’t need now is worth a 2nd or likely even a 3rd. Could you package up Mercer or Zidlicky and an excess 04 to bring in a third? Maybe.

Historically, acquiring a 2nd or 3rd during the week of the draft, where only picks can be dealt, requires a distant 2nd + or distant 3rd +. We have no movable distant 2nds or 3rds left.


But it’s not all bad:

Brzustewicz should bring Kyrou return (2nd. 2nd. 3rd. 4th. 5th. + Decent 17 year old player).

Longacre still hasn’t committed anywhere yet. He could still come or his rights could be moved to a team he’ll report to.

Martin would bring good return. If he scores at a 40+ goal pace, as I think he should, could bring Diaco/Moore return (2nd. 3rd.).

Sop/Motew should bring something. (Today I’m think a 3rd + a mid round pick each). But what they bring should be determined by their play going forward this season. If Sop establishes himself as a bonefide top sixer, return could be a little more than we might think.

I’m not dealing Rehkopf until after 23-24. Unless the return is way high. But if we do deal him next year, 1.5 years of Rehkopf should at the very least be comparable to the Haight return. (2nd. 2nd. 2nd. 3rd. 3rd.). But IMO, 1.5 years of Rehkopf will be worth more. I don’t think Haight laces Rehkopf skates. No comparison.
 

GeoBlue

Registered User
Oct 21, 2017
1,700
1,713
Kitchener
Holmes (SBY) and Harrison (OSH) go to Windsor.
My gut tells me that Windsor is repeating and taking care of unfinished business at the Mem.

I also noticed Harrison went for pretty much what we gave for Zhilkin. What does everyone think of that?
 
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Gondrex

Registered User
Apr 10, 2017
591
812
DeBoer left the team in a lot better shape than we will be going into next year.

DeBoer left a couple pretty good OA’s that we were able to package in the sell off for good return in Mashinter and Shutron. In comparison, we’ll have Martin, Sop, and Motew. Decent but after comparing Mashinter/Martin, there’s no Shutron in the other two. But they should bring back something.

The returning 19 year old group was simply outstanding. (Bortuzzo, Kelly, Unice, Dzielski, and Timmins). We sold off some of those for good return. Our 04 group will be underwhelming in comparison. (Brzustewicz, Hamara, Parsons and not much else). But Hamara could go the way of Boedker (turn pro early). He didn’t return for his 19 year old season and unlike Boedker, Hamara can play AHL.

The 2008 draft class was decent. We went into that draft with: 1st, 3rd, 4th etc. Out of that draft, DeBoer came up with Skinner, Aleardi, Prince, Morrison, and Crescenzi. That was a decent haul.

Going into the next draft, if we’re done dealing, we have 1st, 1st, 3rd, 4th.
At worst, if MM should turn the combination of our two 1sts into what Skinner gave us. But since we have such a poor returning group, MM needs to hit it out of the park with these two 1sts.

Give us a Pinelli / Rehkopf comparable duo and that would take some of the bad smell away going forward. If one of those picks, or heaven forbid both turns out to be a LeBlanc or Valade, we may as well have not had the second 1st rounder to begin with.

I don’t see how we could acquire another high pick for this draft. Either now or during the week leading up to the draft. Anyone on this roster we won’t need now is worth a 2nd or likely even a 3rd. Could you package up Mercer or Zidlicky and an excess 04 to bring in a third? Maybe.

Historically, acquiring a 2nd or 3rd during the week of the draft, where only picks can be dealt, requires a distant 2nd + or distant 3rd +. We have no movable distant 2nds or 3rds left.


But it’s not all bad:

Brzustewicz should bring Kyrou return (2nd. 2nd. 3rd. 4th. 5th. + Decent 17 year old player).

Longacre still hasn’t committed anywhere yet. He could still come or his rights could be moved to a team he’ll report to.

Martin would bring good return. If he scores at a 40+ goal pace, as I think he should, could bring Diaco/Moore return (2nd. 3rd.).

Sop/Motew should bring something. (Today I’m think a 3rd + a mid round pick each). But what they bring should be determined by their play going forward this season. If Sop establishes himself as a bonefide top sixer, return could be a little more than we might think.

I’m not dealing Rehkopf until after 23-24. Unless the return is way high. But if we do deal him next year, 1.5 years of Rehkopf should at the very least be comparable to the Haight return. (2nd. 2nd. 2nd. 3rd. 3rd.). But IMO, 1.5 years of Rehkopf will be worth more. I don’t think Haight laces Rehkopf skates. No comparison.

Very well summarized.

Next year goals are going to be hard to come by.....maybe really, really hard to come by. I can only imagine if by some chance Martin moves on. Either way, Rekopf is still here. Sop is going to be heavily relied upon. Swick will need to elevate his numbers to the next level. Perhaps next year is the year Zidlicky breaks out. Miseljevic, Pugliese, Mercer, Morey and Bottineau will all have to start putting the puck in the net. Maybe the team drafts an import forward that shows up and quickly adjusts to the N.A. ice. Maybe the team finds a free agent that can contribute. Is it possible that a guy like Brzustewicz becomes one of the premier D-men in the league and brings in high picks + a promising 06 at the trade deadline next year? All of this remains to be seen.

Hard to be optimistic about next year, but all those vacancies create opportunities for other players. With any luck the team exceeds low expectations. In the mean time, enjoy the rest of this season.
 
Mar 12, 2009
7,507
7,767
My gut tells me that Windsor is repeating and taking care of unfinished business at the Mem.

I also noticed Harrison went for pretty much what we gave for Zhilkin. What does everyone think of that?
At first glance it looks like they're pretty similar players, similar draft pedigree's and production last year and this year, with Harrison a bit higher (with a bit higher scoring team).
 

4 Bobby ORR

Registered User
Nov 26, 2008
612
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South Detroit
At first glance it looks like they're pretty similar players, similar draft pedigree's and production last year and this year, with Harrison a bit higher (with a bit higher scoring team).
Last year standings:
1672854179433.png


Guelph had more goals than Oshawa.
 
Mar 12, 2009
7,507
7,767
Last year standings:
View attachment 630262

Guelph had more goals than Oshawa.
I was talking about this year when I said Harrison has a bit better production with a bit better of a team...now the team is slightly worse in the standing compared to Guelph having double checked, but Harrison's had more productive line mates to play with for longer, despite 4 fewer goals as a team and a stronger power play (top 4 in the league, vs 10th).

My point was I think on paper the price and the players are roughly the same value, with the "extra" cost of Zhilkin being from a division rival. Not sure what yours is.
 

4 Bobby ORR

Registered User
Nov 26, 2008
612
298
South Detroit
I was talking about this year when I said Harrison has a bit better production with a bit better of a team...now the team is slightly worse in the standing compared to Guelph having double checked, but Harrison's had more productive line mates to play with for longer, despite 4 fewer goals as a team and a stronger power play (top 4 in the league, vs 10th).

My point was I think on paper the price and the players are roughly the same value, with the "extra" cost of Zhilkin being from a division rival. Not sure what yours is.
Personally I thought both teams overpaid but I guess that is the market rate. Harrison is slightly better on paper than Zhilkin and maybe division rivals had something to do with the cost. The fact that Windsor did not give up a roster player.....point to Bowler.
 

Tim Wallach

Registered User
Oct 9, 2007
3,748
4,406
Kitchener, Ontario
Personally I thought both teams overpaid but I guess that is the market rate. Harrison is slightly better on paper than Zhilkin and maybe division rivals had something to do with the cost. The fact that Windsor did not give up a roster player.....point to Bowler.
With all due respect to Fishman, I wouldn't count that as added value. In fact, I'd bet McKenzie insisted on a roster player going back since he has way too many forwards and needs homes for the bodies.
 

bobber

Registered User
Jan 21, 2013
9,079
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Kitchener Ontario
Personally I thought both teams overpaid but I guess that is the market rate. Harrison is slightly better on paper than Zhilkin and maybe division rivals had something to do with the cost. The fact that Windsor did not give up a roster player.....point to Bowler.
As a fan to win these arguments the team doing the trading has to step up and win. If they don't achieve anything from all the assets they acquire then they are in the same boat as all the other losers. Simple fact. Lots of fans of teams that overpaid for certain players themselves are on here saying the Rangers over paid as if it was some sort of contest.
 

rangersblues

Registered User
Mar 21, 2010
2,852
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As a fan to win these arguments the team doing the trading has to step up and win. If they don't achieve anything from all the assets they acquire then they are in the same boat as all the other losers. Simple fact. Lots of fans of teams that overpaid for certain players themselves are on here saying the Rangers over paid as if it was some sort of contest.
Actually the teams that are acquiring these assets aren't in the same boat as the other losers. They've traded away their future.

There's no guarantees about winning. But here's hoping for a long and exciting playoff run and great hockey along the way.
 

bobber

Registered User
Jan 21, 2013
9,079
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Kitchener Ontario
From Rangers email: Francesco Pinelli (Los Angeles Kings) are all sidelined with upper body injuries.
Rangers are also missing Hamara , Mesar, Hollett , Martin and Schmitt . Schmitt name not on email but still on the OHL Media Notes as suspended.
 
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LDN

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
7,402
5,946
Are you looking to load up more? How do you feel you stack up against London and Windsor?
 
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