Kitchener Rangers 2018-19 Season Thread (Part 2)

[OHLInsiders]

OHLinsider

Do you think the rangers will sell everything off or does the money from 2 playoff games this year (before they get swept) have too much importance to the Rangers?

Meireles, Yantsis, McHugh, Gareffa, Gentles, etc....anything on them being shopped. Rangers are going to be 4th to 8th place the next 4 years if they don’t make the decision to sell off good assests this year.

My quick thought on that is they wouldn't be moving Guest if there was the possibility at more ice in the future if they were to move some of those names you mentioned.

 

[bobber]

My conspiracy leaning mind says the Rangers are a propaganda machine that spoon feeds the radio and TV guys the message they want sent. I think Brown does a decent job keeping an arms length away as he even drives himself to all the games. That said it's certainly nice the boys played well enough that they could play up the beaten by a hot goalie angle.

Sometimes I think Farwell and Pope play up an angle that goes a bit against the grain to generate a few call ins to the post game show. We listen to the coach and players sometimes on the way home but not the call in show.

 

[bobber]

Bobber I didn't realize camp was about having a Dave and Buster's experience. Maybe it should be about who can play the GAME. Hate to tell you but the high tech and colored lights won't help you in that department.

You seem to be informed on how real camps should be run rexdale. What would you do different than what the Rangers are doing? Hard to understand your post. I have no idea what information the Rangers glean from using the lights. Maybe you can give us an idea what they are for and why they started using them. Would be interesting to find out. We like going to the camps if we are around and also the Gold Cup held here.

 

[EvenSteven]

Sometimes I think Farwell and Pope play up an angle that goes a bit against the grain to generate a few call ins to the post game show. We listen to the coach and players sometimes on the way home but not the call in show.

Farwell also goes out of his way to direct the topic of conversation on post game shows away from issues the Ranger brass may not want at the forefront.

For example, a couple years ago when Jeremy Bracco was or wasn't on the block, he pretty much refused to talk "trade rumors/what should the Rangers do" leading up to the trade deadline until the last post game show before the deadline. I called in about three weeks before the deadline that year wanting to talk trade deadline and was pretty much cut off at the knees.

I guess the Rangers didn't want the fanbase throwing around players' names on a radio show associated with the team.

So instead, we get Farwell often hijacking his own post game show with topics of the three stars in London, officiating, fans leaving early, etc.

 

[EvenSteven]

My quick thought on that is they wouldn't be moving Guest if there was the possibility at more ice in the future if they were to move some of those names you mentioned.

That is terrible news. As far as I'm concerned, they should sell off any and all of the 99's. That way, guys like Guest and others can get more ice time thus maybe improving his trade value should his game come around. Then an off season deal may rep a better return.

Guest and Yantsis impressed me the most the first couple weeks of the season. Perhaps Guest could have been moved then when there was some promise to his game. You know what they say about hindsight.

 

[EvenSteven]

OHLinsider

Do you think the rangers will sell everything off or does the money from 2 playoff games this year (before they get swept) have too much importance to the Rangers?
.

It's been proven in the past that this team will, most often, not completely sell off on down years. The likes of business man Steve B is under the impression that in a down year, we should still make the playoffs and at worst play 2-4 home games.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that we should sell off as I demonstrated a few pages back, finish out of the playoffs, get a top four pick in the draft and a top 12 pick in the import draft.

That would set us up quite nice towards a run in 2020-21.

 

[MediaCritic]

It's been proven in the past that this team will, most often, not completely sell off on down years. The likes of business man Steve B is under the impression that in a down year, we should still make the playoffs and at worst play 2-4 home games.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that we should sell off as I demonstrated a few pages back, finish out of the playoffs, get a top four pick in the draft and a top 12 pick in the import draft.

That would set us up quite nice towards a run in 2020-21.

Steve B is certainly a shrewd business man but I don't think his main motivation is making money. For what? There's no owner. It doesn't make him rich.

I disagree completely with your idea here. When was the last time London missed the playoffs? Shouldn't that be the standard? When you think about it, making the playoffs in the OHL is pretty easy. You only need to beat two teams. And once your in, who knows? Some years you take some lumps, other years you make a run. I don't think you have to bottom out or hold a fire sale at any point. If that was necessary every team would do it. And they don't.

 

[EvenSteven]

Steve B is certainly a shrewd business man but I don't think his main motivation is making money. For what? There's no owner. It doesn't make him rich.

I disagree completely with your idea here. When was the last time London missed the playoffs? Shouldn't that be the standard? When you think about it, making the playoffs in the OHL is pretty easy. You only need to beat two teams. And once your in, who knows? Some years you take some lumps, other years you make a run. I don't think you have to bottom out or hold a fire sale at any point. If that was necessary every team would do it. And they don't.

London sells when they aren't contending. The thing with them is that they usually have higher end young players around to keep them competitive enough to make the playoffs and then some. Last year it was said that they had a firesale for the first time since they sold off Steve Mason, AJ Perry and others. Actually, they sell off to some extent more often than that. They sold off Mermis and McCarron to Oshawa but had quality remaining to make them still a decent team. That's one example.

The Rangers, on the other hand, don't regularly have the kind of young talent that London does to keep this team decent in down years. If we were to sell off the players that I suggested in my firesale post a couple pages ago, who are our quality, high end remaining youth that'll allow us to make the playoffs and be a tough out in the 1st round? They are few and far between. Damiani for sure. Not much else. Trading Vallati really hurt this team. There is some potential there. An underachieving Vukojevic? We'd be life and death to make the playoffs. That wouldn't be such a bad thing in a rebuilding season.

The alternative? Sell maybe one of the 19 year olds but keep the ones we expect to fill out our OA group next year and when we decide to sell next year, we do so at less of a return than we'd get for them this year.

Guelph went through much of the 90's being the type of team that was pretty good every year but almost never good enough to be a powerhouse. Allowing a player like Ryan Parent to graduate without getting a large return is one example where they missed s chance to strengthen the future of their team.

 

[MediaCritic]

London sells when they aren't contending. The thing with them is that they usually have higher end young players around to keep them competitive enough to make the playoffs and then some. Last year it was said that they had a firesale for the first time since they sold off Steve Mason, AJ Perry and others. Actually, they sell off to some extent more often than that. They sold off Mermis and McCarron to Oshawa but had quality remaining to make them still a decent team. That's one example.

The Rangers, on the other hand, don't regularly have the kind of young talent that London does to keep this team decent in down years. If we were to sell off the players that I suggested in my firesale post a couple pages ago, who are our quality, high end remaining youth that'll allow us to make the playoffs and be a tough out in the 1st round? They are few and far between. Damiani for sure. Not much else. Trading Vallati really hurt this team. There is some potential there. An underachieving Vukojevic? We'd be life and death to make the playoffs. That wouldn't be such a bad thing in a rebuilding season.

The alternative? Sell maybe one of the 19 year olds but keep the ones we expect to fill out our OA group next year and when we decide to sell next year, we do so at less of a return than we'd get for them this year.

Guelph went through much of the 90's being the type of team that was pretty good every year but almost never good enough to be a powerhouse. Allowing a player like Ryan Parent to graduate without getting a large return is one example where they missed s chance to strengthen the future of their team.

Ya but your not seeing the forest for the trees. You just pointed out what London had left after selling off their best players to Oshawa. The biggest problem here is finding those players who can still keep a team competitive in a down year. Let's give MM some time here. I don't agree at all with selling what the Rangers have this year. It's only the second year for MM. I think he needs a chance to build something sustainable here.

 

[EvenSteven]

Ya but your not seeing the forest for the trees. You just pointed out what London had left after selling off their best players to Oshawa. The biggest problem here is finding those players who can still keep a team competitive in a down year. Let's give MM some time here. I don't agree at all with selling what the Rangers have this year. It's only the second year for MM. I think he needs a chance to build something sustainable here.

I'll have to agree with you on giving MM the chance to build something sustainable here. However, in order for MM to have the best possible chance to build such a team, he'll need every asset he can get to do so. That means higher draft picks and promising young players.

For instance:
Two teams with comparable scouting staffs go into an OHL draft. GM #1 has one draft pick in each of rounds 2-5. GM #2 has two picks in each of rounds 2-5. I'm putting my money on GM #2 having the best chance to come away with the stronger group of prospects. That's where I think we need to get to. That's part of the London model. Build up multiple higher draft picks, scout and draft enough of the right players that allow you to stock your team with enough very good players from that age group and still have one or two you can deal to build up the draft pick cupboard again.

Today, MM is having to deal with a questionable crop of 99's on our roster. Among our 99's there are zero NHL draft picks except for Lipanov who we traded for. That hurts the quality of the team. We have seven 99's on this roster. If there were a few more than just one of NHL draft pick quality, say four of the seven, this team would be much better than it is now.

The 00 group was much better before the Vallati trade just based on Vallati and Damiani. Truth be told, given the choice (and I know MM wasn't based on the trade request), I'm betting MM would rather have Vallati in the lineup as opposed to MacPherson and two second rounders. I know I would. This isn't a knock on MacPherson. He is what he is. But Vallati is twice the d-man and like I've said before, hypothetically, he'd bring at least two 2nds and two 3rds at the 2020 deadline let alone last off season.

It seems that MM is trying to see what he has with the 01 group. I like the move bringing in Stepien. Seems MM had seen enough of York to decided to move on from him, thus getting younger on the blueline by making room for Xhekaj. Signing Dickerson is another move I like. Seems MM is trying to build that base of 01's to try and see if he can unearth a gem. I think it needs to continue.

Moving our veterans who won't be a factor on this team when we contend again will bring more high draft picks and a few younger bodies. In my firesale post, every young player I had coming back our way were 01's who were taken in either the first (Bertuzzi), second (Prueter, Cermak) or third (Supryka, Woolley) rounds of the OHL/import draft. That's higher end prospects who you'd assume would have a better chance of developing into decent or better OHLers than a couple we have on our roster currently.

We proved a couple years ago that moving players who look to be decent OA's at the deadline before the start of their OA season reaps very good return. It was pretty much unanimous that we got much more than we thought we'd get for Kohn and Cascagnette.

It only makes sense to do the same with the 99's this year. It would be different if we were destined to contend next year. Then we'd keep the three we'd want to be our OA's and move the one(s) who aren't in our plans. That's what we did when we moved Kohn and Cascagnette.

But we will not contend next year. There are way too many holes:

- Goaltending is a major issue. Neither of our current tenders look like they could back stop a contender.

- We have one high end 00 in Damiani. MM has already started moving out 00's in dealing York and reportedly shopping Guest.

-Nobody from the 01 group is blowing the doors off this season Vukojevic has taken a step back from last season.

- There is no future second year 17 year old Jeff Skinner, Derek Roy or Mike Richards type among our 02's.


Sure it would be nice to keep most of the 99's and watch them graduate as Rangers. Play a quick round in he playoffs and make a little money with the post season home dates.

But then, referring to the top of this post, we'd be GM #1 instead of GM #2 going into the next couple of drafts.

 

[bobber]

Steve B is certainly a shrewd business man but I don't think his main motivation is making money. For what? There's no owner. It doesn't make him rich.

I disagree completely with your idea here. When was the last time London missed the playoffs? Shouldn't that be the standard? When you think about it, making the playoffs in the OHL is pretty easy. You only need to beat two teams. And once your in, who knows? Some years you take some lumps, other years you make a run. I don't think you have to bottom out or hold a fire sale at any point. If that was necessary every team would do it. And they don't.

Bill the most exciting hockey we have witnessed in the last few years is play off hockey. Everything is on the line and the players love the challenge. Just saying.

 

[EvenSteven]

Bill the most exciting hockey we have witnessed in the last few years is play off hockey. Everything is on the line and the players love the challenge. Just saying.

Depending on the type of playoffs, you're right. Last year? Absolutely!!

But the 2017 playoffs? Not so much. I could have done without Owen Sound whomping us by a combined total goals of 27-9 over the course of five games thank you very much.

And I don't even want to get into laying down to the London Knights 3 of 4 years.

 

[bobber]

Depending on the type of playoffs, you're right. Last year? Absolutely!!

But the 2017 playoffs? Not so much. I could have done without Owen Sound whomping us by a combined total goals of 27-9 over the course of five games thank you very much.

And I don't even want to get into laying down to the London Knights 3 of 4 years.

The whole point of playing the 68 regular season games is to make the play offs. I see your point on London beating us out. They are the burr under our saddle. The thing is they beat us mostly in the regular season for the most part also. The goal of the Ranger organization should be to build a team that could beat the Knights. If not you will see the same result for years to come. I also see your point on rebuilding but not sure I could take watching this team play worse than we have at times this year. There is a point where you have to consider if it's worth the money.

 

[James Covenanter]

I'll have to agree with you on giving MM the chance to build something sustainable here. However, in order for MM to have the best possible chance to build such a team, he'll need every asset he can get to do so. That means higher draft picks and promising young players.
.
.
.
But then, referring to the top of this post, we'd be GM #1 instead of GM #2 going into the next couple of drafts.

EvenSteven should change his username to DebbieDowner.

 

[Jives]

EvenSteven should change his username to DebbieDowner.

Call me DebbieDowner too than. You can’t compete ever year in the ohl unless you are London ($$$). No reason why the rangers can’t be super competitive ever 3rd year though. By super competitive I don’t mean fighting for top 4 in the conference. I mean having a team going into the season that is one of the favourites in the CHL. In order to have a team like this though you need to sell hard in your down years so when it’s time to go for it you have a big stockpile of 2nds and 3rds to flip for elite players.

 

[Billyjack]

LOL

 

[bobber]

Call me DebbieDowner too than. You can’t compete ever year in the ohl unless you are London ($$$). No reason why the rangers can’t be super competitive ever 3rd year though. By super competitive I don’t mean fighting for top 4 in the conference. I mean having a team going into the season that is one of the favourites in the CHL. In order to have a team like this though you need to sell hard in your down years so when it’s time to go for it you have a big stockpile of 2nds and 3rds to flip for elite players.

Jives it's true saying you have to know when to sell to reap the benefits and pick up 2nds and 3rds to attain future skilled assets when it's time to contend. The thing is you have to have something to sell in those down years to get those type of picks would you not agree?

 

[Coaches Coroner]

That is terrible news. As far as I'm concerned, they should sell off any and all of the 99's. That way, guys like Guest and others can get more ice time thus maybe improving his trade value should his game come around. Then an off season deal may rep a better return.

Guest and Yantsis impressed me the most the first couple weeks of the season. Perhaps Guest could have been moved then when there was some promise to his game. You know what they say about hindsight.

I'd take it with a grain of salt.

I think people are over reacting to MM's public statements of wanting to remain competitive. A lot of fretting about a few mostly older comments when we don't know what's going on behind closed doors. I will save my hand wringing for after the deadline because everything up until then seems to be a guessing game in my experience. GMs play a lot of smoke and mirrors games and I've never really heard one say "we're selling off and tanking this year" even when that's the obvious plan.

 

[Jives]

Jives it's true saying you have to know when to sell to reap the benefits and pick up 2nds and 3rds to attain future skilled assets when it's time to contend. The thing is you have to have something to sell in those down years to get those type of picks would you not agree?

We will get very good return for our 99’s. I’m not talking 5 or 6 seconds from each but 2 to 4 low picks is doable for Yantsis, Meirles, McHugh and Gareffa each. Hugg too if you can find a team with import need (see Guelph).

Let’s say you get 3 low picks (2nd to 4th round) for each player. That’s 15 picks which I would gladly take. This also gives the young players some time to develop. No reason why Langdon, Valate, Vuk, Sebrango shouldn’t be seeing good ice time with power play time in a year we have no chance to do anything in the playoffs.

 

[bobber]

I'd take it with a grain of salt.

I think people are over reacting to MM's public statements of wanting to remain competitive. A lot of fretting about a few mostly older comments when we don't know what's going on behind closed doors. I will save my hand wringing for after the deadline because everything up until then seems to be a guessing game in my experience. GMs play a lot of smoke and mirrors games and I've never really heard one say "we're selling off and tanking this year" even when that's the obvious plan.

Every year at this time the threads are basically the same story about trades. It gets more intense as the deadline gets closer. I don't mind the retoric at all. It shows fans of the OHL have a passion for the game.

 

[bobber]

None of us know what the plan really is going forward this season. I hope if MM does trade some vets he at least brings in a young replacement or two that have some size and compete in them so that the hockey is still competitive. Stay away from more smaller type forwards. The last draft had a few of them. Hard to win every battle along the boards with a smaller type team in this league.

 

[Melrose]

Holy smoke what is going on with Richardson in NB tonight. Seven goals and he’s still in net?

 

[K2]

For every goal Yantsis scores, Richardson lets in two (+) tonight in NB ... 2-0, 2-3, 5-3, 5-7

 

[EvenSteven]

Holy smoke what is going on with Richardson in NB tonight. Seven goals and he’s still in net?

Best to leave him in a go with Pfiel tomorrow night.

 

[OhSheila]

Wideman might not be the best defense coach. Twice the Battalion split the defence of Gentles and Sebrango.

They read something flawed in our coverage and capitalized on it. Twice.