Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[Sorinth]

We may not have a choice. There may be no 2C available via trade and the UFA's will likely get signed elsewhere and are likely outside of the team's age/timeline.

It might be another season of Dach / Newhook.

Really glad we re-signed Evans though.

On the plus side, Dach can't be any worse or more injured that he was last year could he?

Even if we fail in the offseason to acquire a center Dach won't be handed a spot. They would probably go with Demidov at center over what we went through last season. If Dach wants a center and/or top-6 spot he's going to have to win it in training camp.

All we can really say is that they will give Dach a chance, everything after that will come down to his level of play.

 

[Miller Time]

You can't build on players like Dach or Laine. They don't have the will to win. Much of the time they don't care if they are there or not. The playoffs are a physical two month marathon. They will not make it with their attitude

Laine lives in Finnish league folklore for the way he willed Tampere to the league title as a 17/18 year old, and his dominant WJC performance that propelled them to gold.

Then in his first two NHL playoffs, at 20 & 21, he put up 8g 16pts in 23 games.

In Dach's only playoff experience, as a 19yt old rookie, he put up 6pts in 9 games.


I suppose you could try to argue that it's their attitude, rather than the significant career altering injuries each of them have battled through, that is the problem... Just isn't a very good argument.

 

[windycity]

I still believe Dach can fulfill his potential. If he does, we are going to be stacked having added a top 6 C on top of that.

This is where we want to be.

Hope is not a strategy

I haven't given up on Dach either but also not counting on anything from him. You just can't at this point. He's got to stay healthy and work hard, the former especially has been a challenge.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I was thinking about Dach's future with the team, and I realized there is no way this guy can't be a solid contributor as a winger, even if he doesn't fulfill the high hopes we had for him at center.

He is still a 6 5 body with playmaking abilities.

Unless there's other problems we don't know about, I don't understand this dichotomy that he has to be a bonafide #2C or he's a useless bum that we need to get rid of.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Couple key points from a recent Arpon Basu article

• Some of his conditioning metrics are at an all time high.
• His conditioning was questioned behind the scenes in the org last season.
• They still think Dach can realize his potential but..
• They won't feel all that comfortable if he is their 2C going into next season.
• They want a 2C and they'll be aggressive, but they won't be stupid.

 

[Jabba11]

I still believe in this kid. I think he could surprise us this year. We just wish him health. But he has everything to complement Demidov

 

[Goalfield13]

Couple key points from a recent Arpon Basu article

• Some of his conditioning metrics are at an all time high.
• His conditioning was questioned behind the scenes in the org last season.
• They still think Dach can realize his potential but..
• They won't feel all that comfortable if he is their 2C going into next season.
• They want a 2C and they'll be aggressive, but they won't be stupid.

All good news. Hopefully, this offseason is going well for Laine as well. It would be pretty cool if Dach can win back the 2C spot, Newhook to replace Dvo, and Laine to be a solid contributor outside of the PP.

 

[Justsayin]

It may be wishful thinking, but I am still counting on Dach to be the 2nd center we need. He is clever and has size and skills. He is willing to go to the dirty areas and seems to want to win. There are lots of reasons to doubt that he will, but if I were Hughes I would be concentrating on getting a RD. We're not going for a cup this year so giving Dach a long rope is not the end of the world if it doesn't work out. And it's potentially game-changing if it does.

 

[CzarDemidov]

His conditioning was questioned behind the scenes in the org last season.

So the rumours were true. The second part of this was the allegation that not only was he criticised but that Dach's reaction to the criticism was also criticised.

Same pattern as in Chicago.

 

[Victoire HuGo]

His conditioning was questioned behind the scenes in the org last season.

So the rumours were true. The second part of this was the allegation that not only was he criticised but that Dach's reaction to the criticism was also criticised.

Same pattern as in Chicago.

Do you have a report where this was cited as a problem in Chicago?

 

[The Great Weal]

Dach himself said he felt great and couldn’t tell which knee got operated on last year, I’ll believe it when I see it.

 

[Goalfield13]

His conditioning was questioned behind the scenes in the org last season.

So the rumours were true. The second part of this was the allegation that not only was he criticised but that Dach's reaction to the criticism was also criticised.

Same pattern as in Chicago.

I am sure Dach supporters are surprised that I am about to defend him, but Dach is 24 and has room to mature. If he is taking his rehab and conditioning more seriously this time around, showing that he eventually took the criticism in a positive way, that is a really good sign. People can grow as individuals. We shall see if these reports are true this season. He still shouldn't be given the 2C job right away. He has a lot to prove.

 

[SOLR]

We may not have a choice. There may be no 2C available via trade and the UFA's will likely get signed elsewhere and are likely outside of the team's age/timeline.

It might be another season of Dach / Newhook.

Really glad we re-signed Evans though.

On the plus side, Dach can't be any worse or more injured that he was last year could he?

There are tons of options available for the assets we have.

 

[CzarDemidov]

Do you have a report where this was cited as a problem in Chicago?

Not too many but there was vocal criticism of his behaviour during the 2021-2022 season. Link.

King gave two interesting, honest quotes about Kirby Dach when asked if he thought Dach’s ceiling could be as high as Panthers star Aleksander Barkov, whom Dach named in January as a role model.

“If he decides to continue to be a better person, better player, on and off the ice, and work on everything he needs to work on, do the right things and be patient with the process, he could be a top player like that,” King said. “Is he going to be exactly like him? I don’t know; that’s pretty tough. But he could get himself to a status where this guy is a legit hockey player.

“He’s in a rush. He wants it now. Sometimes it takes a little while. That’s our job to keep him focused and keep him on the right path. We will; he’ll get there.”

The context of these statements seemingly had to do with Dach expressing frustration, slamming sticks, doors, etc. and a lot of criticism about his hesitancy to shoot the puck and refusal to change his game to do so.

He had a very bad 2021-2022 season, and some bad blood lingered from the season before where Dach himself claimed he was rushed back from injury. Link.

“Obviously, there’s pain with it still,” Dach said Monday. “It’s a four- to five-month injury, and I’ve been playing within three months. There’s going to be a little bit of pain with it.”

That comment turned some heads and raised some questions. Is playing now a risk to Dach’s long-term health? Was he medically cleared too soon?

But coach Jeremy Colliton clarified that Dach’s lingering pain was of no significant concern.

“There’s no way the medical staff and organization would have [approved it if it was risky],” Colliton said. “He’s too important for us. I wouldn’t be in favor of playing him if that were a concern. Everything that I’ve been told is that this doesn’t slow down his process of feeling 100% at all. In fact, it should speed it up.”

Throwing your organization under the bus doesn't seem like it leads to good things.

So no, I don't have any reports citing Dach as a problem in Chicago but there's direct primary claims that they wanted him to be a better person, that they disagreed with his claims against their medical staff, and that they traded him as soon as his ELC was due to expire.

I am sure Dach supporters are surprised that I am about to defend him, but Dach is 24 and has room to mature. If he is taking his rehab and conditioning more seriously this time around, showing that he eventually took the criticism in a positive way, that is a really good sign. People can grow as individuals. We shall see if these reports are true this season. He still shouldn't be given the 2C job right away. He has a lot to prove.

Two ACLs later I don't care about his mentality or how much of a boy scout he is, he is damaged goods and cannot be relied upon as a core contributor. A long-term extension is out of the question. No successful organization will rely on him as a planned core piece. It is what it is.

 

[Goalfield13]

Two ACLs later I don't care about his mentality or how much of a boy scout he is, he is damaged goods and cannot be relied upon as a core contributor. A long-term extension is out of the question. No successful organization will rely on him as a planned core piece. It is what it is.

I don't disagree with this take, for the most part. I want us to get a legit 2C this summer if possible. If not, Newhook is the guy with Dach playing wing. I wouldn't completely give up on Dach, though. If he proves himself this year, we can re-sign him. We still have Hage developing either way. I think Dach ends up a winger, personally. I like him there.

 

[Victoire HuGo]

Not too many but there was vocal criticism of his behaviour during the 2021-2022 season. Link.


The context of these statements seemingly had to do with Dach expressing frustration, slamming sticks, doors, etc. and a lot of criticism about his hesitancy to shoot the puck and refusal to change his game to do so.

He had a very bad 2021-2022 season, and some bad blood lingered from the season before where Dach himself claimed he was rushed back from injury. Link.


Throwing your organization under the bus doesn't seem like it leads to good things.

So no, I don't have any reports citing Dach as a problem in Chicago but there's direct primary claims that they wanted him to be a better person, that they disagreed with his claims against their medical staff, and that they traded him as soon as his ELC was due to expire.


Two ACLs later I don't care about his mentality or how much of a boy scout he is, he is damaged goods and cannot be relied upon as a core contributor. A long-term extension is out of the question. No successful organization will rely on him as a planned core piece. It is what it is.

Thank you for showing a source but yes I don't think you can flat out say that based off that his conditioning was a problem.

 

[The Real Timo]

I don't disagree with this take, for the most part. I want us to get a legit 2C this summer if possible. If not, Newhook is the guy with Dach playing wing. I wouldn't completely give up on Dach, though. If he proves himself this year, we can re-sign him. We still have Hage developing either way. I think Dach ends up a winger, personally. I like him there.

You might as well keep Dvorak and give him 2C. Hughes isn't getting a legit 2C. And the only world where Dach or Newhook are centers is in Hughes head.

 

[Paddyjack]

Two ACLs later I don't care about his mentality or how much of a boy scout he is, he is damaged goods and cannot be relied upon as a core contributor. A long-term extension is out of the question. No successful organization will rely on him as a planned core piece. It is what it is.

Fair enough, yet don't forget that Monahan was considered pretty much finished or at least damaged with his injuries, and look at what happened.

 

[Goalfield13]

You might as well keep Dvorak and give him 2C. Hughes isn't getting a legit 2C. And the only world where Dach or Newhook are centers is in Hughes head.

I think we will keep Dvorak, yes.

 

[CzarDemidov]

Fair enough, yet don't forget that Monahan was considered pretty much finished or at least damaged with his injuries, and look at what happened.

There is no way Monahan will spend his current contract without a lengthy spell on LTIR several times. This past season he only played 54 games (65% of the season).

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Folks we already have a Dach III thread. I’m not sure how this one is still going but both threads are right now at the top of the stack so I’m closing this one.

Sorry for any inconvenience. Please copy and paste whatever you want from here over there.