Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[Ozmodiar]

You know the opposite can be argued right? Suzuki barely improved his numbers in the year Caufield was hurt. Do you know why? Because he was stuck with weak wingers. The same wingers Dach had to elevate

Suzuki didn’t have trouble producing because of weak wingers. He produced at a 66 point pace over 36 games after CC went down. Mostly with RHP and (Ylonen, Anderson or Hoffman). Same pace as with CC. Unfazed by weak line mates.

RHP produced at a 48 point clip during that time. The following season his production dropped to an 18 point pace.

Dach hasn’t elevated players to the same degree.

 

[Be a Hab]

You're saying "he never showed anything besides being 3rd overall"

That's the hard part that makes me wonder if we were watching games in different universes. I was lukewarm on him until i saw him play that first season and then I got excited. It would be a shame if he can't get back on track after that major injury.

You know how some hockey players need to change their style of play a little and find an Identity to stay in the NHL, well I think Dach hasn't done that yet. IMO, he is still relying on his offensive talent to get him out of this funk but I don't think it's going to be enough.

He needs to find that something that will keep him on the NHL. I could see him becoming a good 3rd line RW, but he needs to be more physical, combative/engaged winning his board battles and playing better defensively.

Right now, I see more of a guy gliding around the ice expecting his talent to take over and help get him back to where he was before but I don't think it's enough.

I obviously want him to succeed and do think he still has some time to figure it out. I do not believe he will be our 2C and I am ok with that.

 

[Kennedys]

What i don't understrand if how he can can get only 1 pts in his last 16 games while playing almost 15 mins/g. Evans is a better center than Dach.

 

[Monsieur Miz]

He's the same as Drouin, every line he was on sucked ass. Thankfully, he only has one year left.

I see other people suggest that we should move him to 3C. That maybe it's his calling.

He's -24. His defensive play is a disaster. He can't play offense and he can't play defense. What a gem of a player.

 

[Tyson]

He's the same as Drouin, every line he was on sucked ass. Thankfully, he only has one year left.

I see other people suggest that we should move him to 3C. That maybe it's his calling.

He's -24. His defensive play is a disaster. He can't play offense and he can't play defense. What a gem of a player.

Yeah you can't write a more nightmarish scenario than this. Chicago fleeced the Habs.

 

[Goalfield13]

I think people also need to factor in the risk that he never fully recovers from his latest injury. Even with all the time, effort and conditioning,he may not get his skating back to what it was.

 

[HabsForHire]

he's been so bad that I forgot he's even on this team. definition of invisible

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Yeah you can't write a more nightmarish scenario than this. Chicago fleeced the Habs.

That is an egregiously premature conclusion. The consensus was that we had won the trade prior to him blowing his knee out.....at the very least you need to let this season play out and even that is not enough. We will have or answer if he has not returned to form by this time next season.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Yeah you can't write a more nightmarish scenario than this. Chicago fleeced the Habs.

I mean the writing was on the wall. Some people chose to ignore it, but what team ever gives up on a 6’4 RHC that was a 3rd overall pick 3 years after drafting them? A team that knows a thing or two about said player.

They identified a group of players in the 13th overall range in 2022 that they thought could be better than Dach.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

he's been so bad that I forgot he's even on this team. definition of invisible

That is true but the glimpses of improvement are slowly becoming more common.

Patience is key as this is still a rebuilding team and he looked great before he got hurt.

I mean the writing was on the wall. Some people chose to ignore it, but what team ever gives up on a 6’4 RHC that was a 3rd overall pick 3 years after drafting them? A team that knows a thing or two about said player.

They identified a group of players in the 13th overall range in 2022 that they thought could be better than Dach.

I would argue that a team with idiotic management like Chicago has are prime candidates to make such a move.

Boston moving on from Thornton and Ottawa moving on from Zibanejad are obvious examples as well. Chicago also moved Debrincat for dimes on the dollar....

I mean, we gave up on Sergachev as well

 

[DAChampion]

That is true but the glimpses of improvement are slowly becoming more common.

Patience is key as this is still a rebuilding team and he looked great before he got hurt.



I would argue that a team with idiotic management like Chicago has are prime candidates to make such a move.

Boston moving on from Thornton and Ottawa moving on from Zibanejad are obvious examples as well. Chicago also moved Debrincat for dimes on the dollar....

I mean, we gave up on Sergachev as well

The premature hatred of Dach is profoundly idiotic and supportive of the worst claims that people have made about this forum.

 

[Andrei79]

That is true but the glimpses of improvement are slowly becoming more common.

Patience is key as this is still a rebuilding team and he looked great before he got hurt.



I would argue that a team with idiotic management like Chicago has are prime candidates to make such a move.

Boston moving on from Thornton and Ottawa moving on from Zibanejad are obvious examples as well. Chicago also moved Debrincat for dimes on the dollar....

I mean, we gave up on Sergachev as well

This is without mentioning that at no point before the injury was "the writing on the wall". In fact, the poster who wrote that, who you're replying to, never saw it himself, seeing Dach as a level above a budding superstar.

Theres been a lot of revisionism in here. And people with nothing else to do than bash Dach during Christmas. Interpret that how you will.

 

[Doublechin]

I remember the hope some people had after the Dach trade that got them excited once again when we landed Newhook.

Same thing with Drouin back then, such players rarely end up panning out and paying big for them is hopefully something this admin learned now

You might as well pay that for proven assets that are a big older or just wait it out during a rebuild

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

With all of the consternation in Vancouver about what to do with Boeser with his injuries and him becoming a UFA I wonder if they would consider moving on from him. With the dressing room war between Miller and Pettersson, maybe they would consider bringing in a hometown boy like Gallagher who makes the same money as Boeser and is great in the dressing room.

I am just spit balling but there may be a bare bones structure for a deal where we retain on Gallagher. I would even do it to let Boeser walk away just to free up some money and a roster spot for an Olivier type as well as another rugged bottom sixer with Dvorak's money as he will be replaced by Beck imo and there will be significant savings there.

 

[DAChampion]

This is without mentioning that at no point before the injury was "the writing on the wall". In fact, the poster who wrote that, who you're replying to, never saw it himself, seeing Dach as a level above a budding superstar.

View attachment 951517

Theres been a lot of revisionism in here. And people with nothing else to do than bash Dach during Christmas. Interpret that how you will.

It's been a long time since we've seen somebody get owned on this forum as you just owned @McGuires Corndog . Outstanding work.

PS perhaps I should also be doing better work on Christmas, but I'm a Jew who are too much fruitcake yesterday.

 

[Hins77]

With all of the consternation in Vancouver about what to do with Boeser with his injuries and him becoming a UFA I wonder if they would consider moving on from him. With the dressing room war between Miller and Pettersson, maybe they would consider bringing in a hometown boy like Gallagher who makes the same money as Boeser and is great in the dressing room.

I am just spit balling but there may be a bare bones structure for a deal where we retain on Gallagher. I would even do it to let Boeser walk away just to free up some money and a roster spot for an Olivier type as well as another rugged bottom sixer with Dvorak's money as he will be replaced by Beck imo and there will be significant savings there.

I wouldnt get for free Kris Letang, even if he is a local boy. His cap hit is awful. Same for Gallagher.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

GP

This is without mentioning that at no point before the injury was "the writing on the wall". In fact, the poster who wrote that, who you're replying to, never saw it himself, seeing Dach as a level above a budding superstar.

View attachment 951517

Theres been a lot of revisionism in here. And people with nothing else to do than bash Dach during Christmas. Interpret that how you will.

Keep cashing in those receipts lol, love it

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I wouldnt get for free Kris Letang, even if he is a local boy. His cap hit is awful. Same for Gallagher.

The same cap hit as Boeser who we would take off of their books and we could retain as well. They could have Gallagher for two years at 3.25M while we could sign Olivier with the money saved by trading Gallagher.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

This is without mentioning that at no point before the injury was "the writing on the wall". In fact, the poster who wrote that, who you're replying to, never saw it himself, seeing Dach as a level above a budding superstar.

View attachment 951517

Theres been a lot of revisionism in here. And people with nothing else to do than bash Dach during Christmas. Interpret that how you will.

I didn’t like the trade when it happened.

He was showing excellent signs of life at the time I made that post. Most of this board would agree. He was finally looking like he might fulfill his potential, and the way he was using his body to keep the puck away from defenders was something to watch.

Since he’s come back from injury he’s been borderline invisible. If changing your opinion over time is a crime then I’m guilty?

Appreciate you keeping me on my toes though @Andrei79.

 

[Hins77]

The same cap hit as Boeser who we would take off of their books and we could retain as well. They could have Gallagher for two years at 3.25M while we could sign Olivier with the money saved by trading Gallagher.

For Montreal point of view, im agree with you. That would be a dream to trade Gallagher out of Montreal. But obviously. Teams don't want him. He is really far from Boeser caliber.

 

[Rapala]

Yeah you can't write a more nightmarish scenario than this. Chicago fleeced the Habs.

If we look at his recovery season in Chicago he managed to play 70 games but his underlying numbers were bad.
This year (worse injury) he's managing to play games but his underlying numbers are horrid.

My main concern a perfectly valid one is that if/when Kirby Dach starts playing the physical brand of hockey we need from him he'll be at risk again.
This player has yet to put both parts of the puzzle together meanwhile it seems like escapability is not one of his better attributes.

Tough League lots of questions.

 

[Tyson]

If we look at his recovery season in Chicago he managed to play 70 games but his underlying numbers were bad.
This year (worse injury) he's managing to play games but his underlying numbers are horrid.

My main concern a perfectly valid one is that if/when Kirby Dach starts playing the physical brand of hockey we need from him he'll be at risk again.
This player has yet to put both parts of the puzzle together meanwhile it seems like escapability is not one of his better attributes.

Tough League lots of questions.

Even though he was drafted 3rd overall if you look at his junior numbers they were not that impressive.
He has bust written all over him and of course I hope I am wrong.

 

[OldCraig71]

If Dach manages to turn things around he can thank MSL and the management group because they have shown a level of patience we wouldn't have seen from Bergevin and his coaches.

 

[Chili]

There`s a stigmatism about where a player was drafted. So and so was a top five. That was the hyped position when they were 18 years old. The question is where are they at right now? The past draft position is irrelevant, Jake Evans is a great example of that.

It`s hard to find centres, can see what they were trying to do. Don`t believe it`s wrong to go after reclamation type players, just be real careful about giving up prime assets in return.

 

[DAChampion]

If Dach manages to turn things around he can thank MSL and the management group because they have shown a level of patience we wouldn't have seen from Bergevin and his coaches.

That management showed a lot of patience for Desharnais and Drouin.