Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[zzoo]

He is -20, the worst in the whole NHL

Correct.
Letang #7. Stamkos #8. Josi #9. Zibanejad #10

 

[ReHabs]

Yes lets scratch him after he actually played a good game, despite consistently playing him through his early season struggles in hopes to help him find his game. Makes perfect sense.

Oh no! He showed signs of progress and life, lets bench him now.

Dach is a huge question that needs answering this season, it would behoove the team to give him all the opportunity and support he needs.

So, what do you think now? Am I still a bad guy because I wanted this young man to be taken out of the equation for a bit?

 

[ReHabs]

Aweille, time for Jeff Gorton to grab Kirby and bring him for a long walk around the old port.

Our management group don’t seem remotely interested in or concerned with the individual mental health or collective team culture aspect at all. Plug and play, shut up and lose. Seems more like their speed.

 

[HuGort]

The got to get rid of Dach. He is a useless, does nothing but hinder the team. Extremely lazy.

Was -2 against the Bruins, 4 for 13 on faceoffs. Now we know why Chicago dumped him so quick.

 

[Kennedys]

On pace for 3 goals and -68. Ouch

 

[VT]

He's being proactive to whatever has come up. He hasn't been there very long so naturally it's not his team yet. Habs management is either patient, stubborn or oblivious to their current roster depending on one's viewpoint. We may have a clearer picture by next season.

And why be proactive? Fantilli, K. Johnson, Marchenko, Voronkov,
and Werenski are already the core of the team, see the stats. Olivier is an excellent enforcer. All of those were drafted/signed by Jarmo. Also, don't forget Brindley and Mateychuk, who will join them. There are possible trades for Sillinger, Chinakhov (I don't really believe that), definitely Provorov. But the foundation of the team is already there:

Voronkov - Monahan - Marchenko
xxx - Fantilli - K. Johnson
xxx - xxx - Brindley
xxx - xxx - Olivier

Werenski, Fabbro
Mateychuk, xxx
xxx, xxx

It is 4 players from TOP 6, K. Johnson can be a star, other TOP 6 players.
Werenski is a star now, Mateyhuk TOP 2 player.

This is the basis of the future team, which will need to be supplemented sensibly. Mind you, I'm not counting Chinakhov and Sillinger.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Our management group don’t seem remotely interested in or concerned with the individual mental health or collective team culture aspect at all. Plug and play, shut up and lose. Seems more like their speed.

Omg again with the mental health stuff. The kid just sucks, doesn't have it. I'd rather he had substance issues but could actually play well.

 

[Kennedys]

Omg again with the mental health stuff. The kid just sucks, doesn't have it. I'd rather he had substance issues but could actually play well.

Dach never dominated other than one year at 15yo

 

[HabbyGuy]

So, what do you think now? Am I still a bad guy because I wanted this young man to be taken out of the equation for a bit?

First off, never said you were a bad guy for your take, only that the decision to bench him after saturday's game was a poor one. He was coming off his his best game on saturday, so benching him made no sense.

This team is dearth of any forward depth as is, and figuring out Dach this season is quite frankly near the top of the list of the team's concerns going forward. It's a question that needs answering, benching him does nothing to help them with that.

He was such an integral part coming into this season for this franchise, everyone was excited to get him back, his struggles with his return from injury doesn't change that fact despite the disappointment. Who are we going to put in his stead? Pezzetta? Is that going to help this team moving forward?

Dach needs to play himself out of this situation, if not he may play himself out of this city, and what we hoped he was when we acquired him. Hughes needs to figure this out. Dach's future is of more concern than a few more wins or losses for this team.

 

[Kennedys]

Our management group don’t seem remotely interested in or concerned with the individual mental health or collective team culture aspect at all. Plug and play, shut up and lose. Seems more like their speed.

Is GenZ "mental health" the issue here really ?. Mario Lemieux got cancer , came back and scored 30 goals in 20 games.

 

[ReHabs]

Omg again with the mental health stuff. The kid just sucks, doesn't have it. I'd rather he had substance issues but could actually play well.

I’m approaching it rationally with a view to minimize Bad outcomes:
1. He played differently (better) before his injury and time out
2. He’s admitted he’s under performing
3. I read a comment elsewhere of someone who claimed to be connected with his family which said Dach’s having a tough time (eg turning off comments on his Instagram)

Putting it all together, I don’t see why he shouldn’t be taken out of the limelight for a bit. Scratching a player is a tool, it should be used to solve a problem. Dach’s play is problematic. The lack of accountability for his play is problematic. Putting aside the mental health aspect, this tool will solve problems.

I mentioned the mental health aspect because I pity him if he’s actually struggling.

First off, never said you were a bad guy for your take, only that the decision to bench him after saturday's game was a poor one. He was coming off his his best game on saturday, so benching him made no sense.

This team is dearth of any forward depth as is, and figuring out Dach this season is quite frankly near the top of the list of the team's concerns going forward. It's a question that needs answering, benching him does nothing to help them with that.

He was such an integral part coming into this season for this franchise, everyone was excited to get him back, his struggles with his return from injury doesn't change that fact despite the disappointment. Who are we going to put in his stead? Pezzetta? Is that going to help this team moving forward?

Dach needs to play himself out of this situation, if not he may play himself out of this city, and what we hoped he was when we acquired him. Hughes needs to figure this out. The 2c spot is a massive concern.

See above: it’s about the team (accountability) and it’s about himself (getting a break).

 

[ReHabs]

Is GenZ "mental health" the issue here really ?. Mario Lemieux got cancer , came back and scored 30 goals in 20 games.

You don’t need to reach so far back. Kucherov and Bergeron and Stone suffered huge injuries and came back in full stride to rock and roll. Dach is incapable of doing so. He was incapable with CHI after his wrist injury and seems incapable now.

The question I have is what will he look like next year? I think scratching him and giving him a reprieve won’t negatively affect his outcome AND will help enforce a culture of accountability.

 

[Theodore450]

If this guy was a 4th round pick he would be gone rn

 

[WeThreeKings]

Is GenZ "mental health" the issue here really ?. Mario Lemieux got cancer , came back and scored 30 goals in 20 games.

You can't get cancer from playing hockey.

The guy had two major injuries from on ice collisions and openly discusses the mental block about engaging the way with his body he's accustomed to doing.

He's starting to come around - using plus/minus to make a point is pretty silly. Which one of the goals against last night were his fault?

Matheson passing it to the other team for a breakaway?

He had nothing to do with those minuses but he gets them because Matheson was allowed to suck ass with impunity.

If this guy was a 4th round pick he would be gone rn

No, he wouldn't.

6'4" centers who have shown the promise he did prior to a major injury and a swath of missed time don't just get turfed before they get a chance to figure it out.

The worst case scenario is Kirby Dach is a third line W/C for us. Which is more than fine for the acquisition cost and the contract he has now and is likely to get in the future.

The best case scenario is he builds up his confidence, finds his form prior to the injury and develops upward from there.

 

[Theodore450]

You can't get cancer from playing hockey.

The guy had two major injuries from on ice collisions and openly discusses the mental block about engaging the way with his body he's accustomed to doing.

He's starting to come around - using plus/minus to make a point is pretty silly. Which one of the goals against last night were his fault?

Matheson passing it to the other team for a breakaway?

He had nothing to do with those minuses but he gets them because Matheson was allowed to suck ass with impunity.



No, he wouldn't.

6'4" centers who have shown the promise he did prior to a major injury and a swath of missed time don't just get turfed before they get a chance to figure it out.

The worst case scenario is Kirby Dach is a third line W/C for us. Which is more than fine for the acquisition cost and the contract he has now and is likely to get in the future.

The best case scenario is he builds up his confidence, finds his form prior to the injury and develops upward from there.

Delusions.


He was traded by a rebuilding team at 21 for a reason. It’s been years now, he’s a bust dawg. You don’t spend a 13ov pick or a top 4 D for a 3rd liner

 

[WeThreeKings]

Delusions.


He was traded by a rebuilding team at 21 for a reason. It’s been years now, he’s a bust dawg. You don’t spend a 13ov pick or a top 4 D for a 3rd liner

He was awesome in his first year for us and was our best player through camp and the little he got to play in the second year before the injury.

Thankfully our management team has more patience than this fan base, my 3 month old son has more patience waiting for a bottle than you lot.

 

[StCaufield]

This is a classic case of seeing a guy whose big (doesn’t play like it) and has some skill and paying a big price for him while years later finding out that he’s just a big body. I hope he can turn it around but this is all I see since he’s been in Montreal. Disappointment

 

[ReHabs]

38pts in 58gp, a 53pt season pace, and most of them gained by riding shotgun next to a hot Suzuki-Caufield is now "awesome". A 53-pt season performance is now awesome. The rebuild is on track when you think 53-pt first liners are awesome. Be patient, we might get more awesome players who get 53 pts in their awesome seasons. Habs fans have always wanted a rebuild and to lose for year after year just to get more awesome players with awesome 53-pt seasons. Only evil impatient fans could be less than pleased with players like Dach who are on pace for less than 30 pts this season when they're capable of awesome 53-pt seasons.

 

[WeThreeKings]

This is a classic case of seeing a guy whose big (doesn’t play like it) and has some skill and paying a big price for him while years later finding out that he’s just a big body. I hope he can turn it around but this is all I see since he’s been in Montreal. Disappointment

How do you watch the last two games and say he doesn't play like it?

He was involved and the catalyst for two massive scrums. Sent another guy out of the game with a big hit.

 

[StCaufield]

How do you watch the last two games and say he doesn't play like it?

He was involved and the catalyst for two massive scrums. Sent another guy out of the game with a big hit.

I should specify that he plays smaller more often that not that’s all. He’s just pissed off which he should be. This team is one of the biggest in the league but the soft play is contagious. This isn’t just Kirby

 

[Theodore450]

He was awesome in his first year for us and was our best player through camp and the little he got to play in the second year before the injury.

Thankfully our management team has more patience than this fan base, my 3 month old son has more patience waiting for a bottle than you lot.

Thankfully the hawks got rid of this bust while some rookie GM was antsy to his team better while still making it worse.

His first season was a 3rd line calibre player
His last season was 2 games about 40min of looking like a quality player.
We call that small sample size.
He’s cooked

 

[WeThreeKings]

I should specify that he plays smaller more often that not that’s all. He’s just pissed off which he should be

I would say that probably has a lot to do with that fear in the back of his mind about getting injured again.

We have all this season and next year to evaluate him.

Regardless of how anyone feels about him as a player, especially at this point in time, is there any harm in continuing to work with him and see if this is a mental/injury recovery thing vs. all of that adding up and costing him his potential?

He's not holding back a single prospect.
His value in a trade is not going to be anywhere near the upside of him finding his game again and developing.
The Canadiens are not fighting for a playoff spot where his play is materially impacting their ability to get there at this point in the season.

There's 0 value in doing anything but seeing if he can turn this around.

Thankfully the hawks got rid of this bust while some rookie GM was antsy to his team better while still making it worse.

His first season was a 3rd line calibre player
His last season was 2 games about 40min of looking like a quality player.
We call that small sample size.
He’s cooked

Bookmarked.

See ya in a couple months.

 

[Theodore450]

I would say that probably has a lot to do with that fear in the back of his mind about getting injured again.

We have all this season and next year to evaluate him.

Regardless of how anyone feels about him as a player, especially at this point in time, is there any harm in continuing to work with him and see if this is a mental/injury recovery thing vs. all of that adding up and costing him his potential?

He's not holding back a single prospect.
His value in a trade is not going to be anywhere near the upside of him finding his game again and developing.
The Canadiens are not fighting for a playoff spot where his play is materially impacting their ability to get there at this point in the season.

There's 0 value in doing anything but seeing if he can turn this around.



Bookmarked.

See ya in a couple months.

See me in 5 years when still suck

 

[417]

No one turns on their own players as quickly or as disgustingly as this fan base does.

Shame

 

[StCaufield]

No one turns on their own players as quickly or as disgustingly as this fan base does.

Shame

He’s been horrible. Any fan base would be questioning him. Harsh? Maybe in some cases but he has been god awful