Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[BozoTheClown]

This isn’t at all like you suggest.

Chicago mismanaged his injuries badly. I don’t think Dach wanted to be there and at a minimum it was a mutually agreed upon divorce. And Dach showed while he was here that he can play the game. Unfortunately he got hurt - unrelated to the wrist problem in Chicago - and there’s no way anyone could have anticipated that.

It’s not a red flag situation. It’s a fluke injury that could’ve happened to anyone. It sucks and we’ll see where it goes but the idea that Chicago saw all these problems with him is absolute crap.

This isn’t at all like you suggest.

Chicago mismanaged his injuries badly. I don’t think Dach wanted to be there and at a minimum it was a mutually agreed upon divorce. And Dach showed while he was here that he can play the game. Unfortunately he got hurt - unrelated to the wrist problem in Chicago - and there’s no way anyone could have anticipated that.

It’s not a red flag situation. It’s a fluke injury that could’ve happened to anyone. It sucks and we’ll see where it goes but the idea that Chicago saw all these problems with him is absolute crap.

Dach has poor work ethic.

Dach has poor work ethic.
Look at the sequence on the Cale Makar overtime goal and tell me Dach wasn’t nonchalant and lazy on the play. This is the kind of play a junior player will do, not a professional hockey player. I also don’t care if it was Makar or Mario Roberge that made him look like an idiot, the fact is he did look like an idiot.

This play along many other in the Habs uniform tells me a lot.

Maybe he will smart up and maybe he won’t, but right now it doesn’t look good for him.

Mailloux went from a lot of stuff early on in his career with injuries are well and I haven’t seen the same behaviour from him or excuses from fans.

 

[junyab]

I wish they'd just put him center on any line not the 1st and run it the rest of the year. Give him every chance we got. Tank year, who cares.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Dach has poor work ethic.
Look at the sequence on the Cale Makar overtime goal and tell me Dach wasn’t nonchalant and lazy on the play. This is the kind of play a junior player will do, not a professional hockey player. I also don’t care if it was Makar or Mario Roberge that made him look like an idiot, the fact is he did look like an idiot.

There's not a player in the league who doesn't look bad or lazy on some plays.

That doesn't mean they have a bad work ethic.

This play along many other in the Habs uniform tells me a lot.

Maybe he will smart up and maybe he won’t, but right now it doesn’t look good for him.

Nobody said it does.

And it's entirely possible he'll never be the guy we hoped he would be. That doesn't mean he doesn't have any work ethic or that it was a bad trade.

The reality is that this guy has had a lot to deal with injury wise. It's hurt his career. Missing that much hockey at such a young age is going to set you back. I don't know if it means he won't be the guy we hoped he'd be but it may very well turn out that way.

But to pretend like he's never shown anything to us is just flat out wrong. He looked like a beast of a hockey player. And that guy may still be there. We need to be patient and find out. He's coming off a full year off and the whole team's off. Let's give it some time before writing this guy off.

Mailloux went from a lot of stuff early on in his career with injuries are well and I haven’t seen the same behaviour from him or excuses from fans.

Mailloux isn't even in the NHL.

And Dach being off for a year isn't an 'excuse' it's a fact. It's just something we need to wait and see on.

 

[Andy]

What;s annoying about these discussions is the revisionist history. Folks seeing how Dach is playing now and pretending that this is how he played in 2022, which is just plain false. None of the descriptors of current Dach were used two years ago. Hell they weren't even used in THIS pre-season. So to say that he was always this way is pure narrative convenience.

I am personally shocked at how different Dach 2024 looks from Dach 2022. Two completely different players. In 2022 he was winning board battles, threading needles, carrying the puck from end-to-end, gaining the o-zone with ease.

Now he can't even hold the puck for more than a second without losing it or making a bad play. Something is off.

 

[WeThreeKings]

What;s annoying about these discussions is the revisionist history. Folks seeing how Dach is playing now and pretending that this is how he played in 2022, which is just plain false. None of the descriptors of current Dach were used two years ago. Hell they weren't even used in pre-season. So to say that he was always this way is pure narrative convenience.

I am personally shocked at how different Dach 2024 looks from Dach 2022. Two completely different players. In 2022 he was winning board battles, threading needles, carrying the puck from end-to-end, gaining the o-zone with ease.

Now he can't even hold the puck for more than a second without losing it or making a bad play. Something is off.

He said it himself that he's a big tentative and he has to get over being afraid to get hurt.. and that with that comes the desire to want to make a play so badly to get something going that he's making bad decisions with the puck. His confidence is shot and he's tentative in the way that he plays due to the significant injuries.

What's important is what you said at the beginning, that this is new for Dach to play this way.. but people are acting like it's always been the case. The need to be 'right' about something not working out for this team is pretty much driving 95% of narratives. No one cares.

That's why the sports psychologist needs to be his right hand man for awhile until he can feel confident to engage the way he needs to, to be successful.

“I don’t think I’m playing bad hockey at all, it’s just, I think I’m playing safe. I think (unconsciously), it is what it is after an injury like that,” Dach said after practice Wednesday. “So I’m trying to work my way out of it, get back to holding on to pucks and making plays and being able to produce.”

Dach tried to make a play in his own zone against Vegas, but it was the wrong play at the wrong time at the wrong area of the ice. So much of what the Canadiens believe Dach can be is based on what he showed them at a young age two seasons ago. But until he can get past playing safe, until he gets back to playing with a certain controlled recklessness, with some nasty bite to his game, that high ceiling he showed two seasons ago will remain elusive.


St. Louis expressed confidence last week that he can get that version of Dach back again, that he simply needs to get Dach to take a wider view of the game again as opposed to viewing it through a “toilet paper roll.” When Dach plays with that wide view, St. Louis said, the result is “special.”

That game against Vegas, that turnover off a no-look pass in his own end, was the epitome of toilet roll hockey.

“I feel for Dacher, he missed a lot of time and it’s frustrating for him because we all know how good he can be,” St. Louis said after the game Saturday. “So I feel for Dacher. They want to help, and it’s a fine line between helping and hurting.”

The “they” here refers to both Dach and Slafkovský. The question he was asked was about the two of them because they were so central to that loss, but also because they are so central to what the Canadiens are trying to build.

 

[teamfirst]

I can understand why people are frustrated with his play right now but the guy has all the tools and proved how good he could be before he got injured, he just need to think less and play harder

 

[Tyson]

I can understand why people are frustrated with his play right now but the guy has all the tools and proved how good he could be before he got injured, he just need to think less and play harder

What has he proven exactly?

 

[teamfirst]

What has he proven exactly?

Not saying he was amasing but his first season with us was promising, anyway what choice do we have other than wait and see it's not like we have a ton of guy's waiting to take his place.

 

[Tyson]

Not saying he was amasing but his first season with us was promising, anyway what choice do we have other than wait and see it's not like we have a ton of guy's waiting to take his place.

I think Hughes and Gorton made the mistake of thinking that he and Newhook were better than they actually are. I hope I am wrong

 

[ReimanSum1908]

What;s annoying about these discussions is the revisionist history. Folks seeing how Dach is playing now and pretending that this is how he played in 2022, which is just plain false. None of the descriptors of current Dach were used two years ago. Hell they weren't even used in THIS pre-season. So to say that he was always this way is pure narrative convenience.

I am personally shocked at how different Dach 2024 looks from Dach 2022. Two completely different players. In 2022 he was winning board battles, threading needles, carrying the puck from end-to-end, gaining the o-zone with ease.

Now he can't even hold the puck for more than a second without losing it or making a bad play. Something is off.

There were myriad reasons that his injury proved so devastating, not simply because of its impact on a human being, but because his board work, vision, and synergy with linemates in the preseason made it appear as if he was poised to unseat Suzuki as the team's defacto number one center.

Recent performances seem to have wiped that reality from people's minds, and others have been left wondering if that span of dominance was just an illusion or anomaly.

 

[teamfirst]

I think Hughes and Gorton made the mistake of thinking that he and Newhook were better than they actually are. I hope I am wrong

In Newhook's case i already thrown the towell, he is not a top 6 forward and not the kind of guy i would like in the bottom 6, Dach i still have hope but he clearly need to play with more intensity

 

[habdynasty]

Players with bad work ethic don’t make it to the nhl.

 

[TennisMenace]

In Newhook's case i already thrown the towell, he is not a top 6 forward and not the kind of guy i would like in the bottom 6, Dach i still have hope but he clearly need to play with more intensity

Reading this and knowing it can be true is very discouraging. We’ve been giving up good players who are better than the guys we kept. Romanov and Kovisevic just to name two.

So now I need someone to blame…..management for not seeing the flaws in these players or the Head Coach for not coaching up these young players.

 

[BozoTheClown]

There's not a player in the league who doesn't look bad or lazy on some plays.

That doesn't mean they have a bad work ethic.

Nobody said it does.

And it's entirely possible he'll never be the guy we hoped he would be. That doesn't mean he doesn't have any work ethic or that it was a bad trade.

The reality is that this guy has had a lot to deal with injury wise. It's hurt his career. Missing that much hockey at such a young age is going to set you back. I don't know if it means he won't be the guy we hoped he'd be but it may very well turn out that way.

But to pretend like he's never shown anything to us is just flat out wrong. He looked like a beast of a hockey player. And that guy may still be there. We need to be patient and find out. He's coming off a full year off and the whole team's off. Let's give it some time before writing this guy off.

Mailloux isn't even in the NHL.

And Dach being off for a year isn't an 'excuse' it's a fact. It's just something we need to wait and see on.

The guy looks lazy, nonchalant with poor work ethic.
Chicago shipped him for a reason and we are seeing why now.
He might have had a good season in his first year here, but there was probably not much pressure on him or the rest of the team, but now there is pressure to get better in the standing and I have a feeling Dach isn’t made for Montreal, he is too weak mentally to deal with the pressure that come with playing for the Canadiens.

Koivu got injured and did people had to bring the injury as an excuse? No, because Koivu was a warrior, not some lazy mentality weak slob.

Lifeless eyes with no pation , just like his play and double a chin from what is most likely poor work ethic and laziness.


Hopefully he proves me wrong.

 

[BozoTheClown]

Players with bad work ethic don’t make it to the nhl.

Not true.
There are players with an absolute amount of skills, speed, hockey IQ, size or a combination of many things that make it to the NHL with poor work ethic. Will they last or be successful? That’s a different story.

Think about this guy.Alexandre Daigle Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The guy looks lazy, nonchalant with poor work ethic.

We've been there done that. He doesn't look good. Nobody disagrees.

That doesn't make him lazy with a poor work ethic.

Chicago shipped him for a reason and we are seeing why now.

I already addressed this for you. You have misrepresented what happened.

He might have had a good season in his first year here, but there was probably not much pressure on him or the rest of the team, but now there is pressure to get better in the standing and I have a feeling Dach isn’t made for Montreal, he is too weak mentally to deal with the pressure that come with playing for the Canadiens.

The whole team is bad. It's not surprising he's bad too. The injury also hasn't helped.

Koivu got injured and did people had to bring the injury as an excuse? No, because Koivu was a warrior, not some lazy mentality weak slob.

Koivu was a vet and not all injuries are the same. Does this really need to be explained to you?

Lifeless eyes with no pation , just like his play and double a chin from what is most likely poor work ethic and laziness.


Hopefully he proves me wrong.

He's played poorly. Nobody disagrees.

 

[BozoTheClown]

Koivu was a vet and not all injuries are the same. Does this really need to be explained to you?

Koivu was injured early in his career not only as a vet.
2nd NHL season, Knee injury in 1996-1997 missed 30+ games
5th seasons, Shoulder injury in 1999-2000 played only 24 games.
Same seasons as Dach.

Get your facts straight.

 

[BozoTheClown]

I already addressed this for you. You have misrepresented what happened.

nah!
They knew he was a bust and traded him.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Koivu was injured early in his career not only as a vet.
2nd NHL season, Knee injury in 1996-1997 missed 30+ games
5th seasons, Shoulder injury in 1999-2000 played only 24 games.
Same seasons as Dach.

Get your facts straight.

1. Be more specific about your facts. Koivu was injured many times in his career.

2. None of this matters. Not every injury is the same.

Nothing has changed here. You continue to misrepresent what happened with Chicago. You keep calling him lazy….

 

[BozoTheClown]

1. Be more specific about your facts. Koivu was injured many times in his career.

2. None of this matters. Not every injury is the same.

Nothing has changed here. You continue to misrepresent what happened with Chicago. You keep calling him lazy….

What?
I mentioned the seasons Koivu was injured and also mentioned they were the same seasons as Dach after you claimed it came when Koivu was a veteran which wasn’t.

Oh now none of this matter

Are you saying a knee injury and a dislocated shoulder is not as bad as a knee and hand injury.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

What?
I mentioned the seasons Koivu was injured and also mentioned they were the same seasons as Dach after you claimed it came when Koivu was a veteran which wasn’t.

Oh now none of this matter

Some players bounce back easier than others. No injury is the same.

It doesn’t matter.

Are you saying a knee injury and a dislocated shoulder is not as bad as a knee and hand injury.

I’m saying that not every player is the same. If a player doesn’t bounce back it doesn’t mean he’s lazy and has no drive.

Kirby Dach has had a lot of injuries for such a young career. It’s hurt his development without a doubt. But that does mean he’s without talent or that he’s lazy…

 

[BozoTheClown]

Some players bounce back easier than others. No injury is the same.

It doesn’t matter.

I’m saying that not every player is the same. If a player doesn’t bounce back it doesn’t mean he’s lazy and has no drive.

Kirby Dach has had a lot of injuries for such a young career. It’s hurt his development without a doubt. But that does mean he’s without talent or that he’s lazy…

You haven’t answer your claim that Koivu was a veteran when he got injured and came back stronger.

Could it be that Koivu’s work ethic, dedication and warrior mentality is the difference in the recovery.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You haven’t answer your claim that Koivu was a veteran when he got injured and came back stronger.

Could it be that Koivu’s work ethic, dedication and warrior mentality is the difference in the recovery.

Sure. It could also be that Dach has missed a lot of time in his development and is worried about getting hurt again…

That’s my point, no two situations are the same. I’m not sure why you still don’t understand this.