Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[BLONG7]

That's a 2+ year back up plan. I guess we just still remain patient? Transition years are delayed like the Sens/Sabres? I doubt Beck, Newhook, Kapanen are able to fill a 2C role. Maybe Hage but he's more than 2 years away. If Newhook can't play center for a contender after MacKinnon, he's not going to be able to do that behind Suzuki on a younger team. Newhook is not a center IMO. He's a winger who can play center as insurance (injuries) but it's not ideal if you want to win. If you want to delay the transition, it fits.

Demidov is the real back-up plan (next season). So yeah, this is a big season for Dach in terms of stapling himself in that 2C spot or even challenging Suzuki. He showed signs of that heading into last season.

I think this kid has started very slow, because of the missed year..................the talent is there, staying healthy is key obviously. I could see him landing on the wing of a good second line.
It's been 4 games, everyone is thinking he should have picked up where he left off, just not possible at this level.
He is talented, it will come guys.............October will be his slow and steady progress and hopefully November he kicks it in gear.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think this kid has started very slow, because of the missed year..................the talent is there, staying healthy is key obviously. I could see him landing on the wing of a good second line.
It's been 4 games, everyone is thinking he should have picked up where he left off, just not possible at this level.
He is talented, it will come guys.............October will be his slow and steady progress and hopefully November he kicks it in gear.

Could be a line mix problem. Newhook to me is not a top 6 sure shot talent. It was OK when he was there with Dach/Laine but without Laine, it changes things. No offense to Armia and his rebound but he don't belong there either. We have a gap and too bad Demidov was not with us this season.

Very curious to see what kind of season Dach has. I still believe in him a lot but he has to start producing.

 

[BLONG7]

Could be a line mix problem. Newhook to me is not a top 6 sure shot talent. It was OK when he was there with Dach/Laine but without Laine, it changes things. No offense to Armia and his rebound but he don't belong there either. We have a gap and too bad Demidov was not with us this season.

Very curious to see what kind of season Dach has. I still believe in him a lot but he has to start producing.

Amazing what the Laine injury did to the season.............let's hope he can come back after Christmas.

Dach does need to start to show his game, real soon.............if not I can see them make a deal for a Centre.

 

[Deebs]

Amazing what the Laine injury did to the season.............let's hope he can come back after Christmas.

Dach does need to start to show his game, real soon.............if not I can see them make a deal for a Centre.

Dach has the entire year for me. He's coming back from a massive surgery, people need to be patient.

If anything for this year, I could see him getting some time on the wing but moving forward, I absolute see him as a Center

 

[Ozmodiar]

That's a 2+ year back up plan. I guess we just still remain patient? Transition years are delayed like the Sens/Sabres? I doubt Beck, Newhook, Kapanen are able to fill a 2C role. Maybe Hage but he's more than 2 years away. If Newhook can't play center for a contender after MacKinnon, he's not going to be able to do that behind Suzuki on a younger team. Newhook is not a center IMO. He's a winger who can play center as insurance (injuries) but it's not ideal if you want to win. If you want to delay the transition, it fits.

Demidov is the real back-up plan (next season). So yeah, this is a big season for Dach in terms of stapling himself in that 2C spot or even challenging Suzuki. He showed signs of that heading into last season.

Dach has 2 seasons left on his deal (this one and next). It stands to reason that the backup plan is 2+ from now. They are laying the foundation for alternatives should Dach not be the long term answer.

If they give up on Dach we’ll see a more obvious, shorter term, solution.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Dach has the entire year for me. He's coming back from a massive surgery, people need to be patient.

If anything for this year, I could see him getting some time on the wing but moving forward, I absolute see him as a Center

I’d love to be a fly on the wall when hockey ops discuss their expectations for Dach.
They’re likely exercising some patience now … but for how long? Maybe they’re looking for improvement throughout the season and next season being “make or break, no excuses” with Demidov’s arrival.

 

[Tyson]

Dach has zero chemistry with his current line mates. I would make him a winger permanently. In 5+ years he has not improved whatsoever in the face off dot.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Dach has zero chemistry with his current line mates. I would make him a winger permanently. In 5+ years he has not improved whatsoever in the face off dot.

Kirby Dach is at his best taking the puck through the middle of the ice, being the first forward back in the defensive zone getting below the dots and transitioning the puck back. He's a center, the face-offs will improve over time and it is hardly a massive factor. Late zone lead defensive faceoffs he won't be on for and Suzuki would be taking late offensive zone face-offs needing a goal.

 

[Tyson]

Kirby Dach is at his best taking the puck through the middle of the ice, being the first forward back in the defensive zone getting below the dots and transitioning the puck back. He's a center, the face-offs will improve over time and it is hardly a massive factor. Late zone lead defensive faceoffs he won't be on for and Suzuki would be taking late offensive zone face-offs needing a goal.

I don't agree, you lose 2/3 of your face offs you end up chasing the play for 25 seconds. Can't generate a whole lot when by the time you get the puck your shift is over. No #2 Center can be effective winning under 40% of his face offs.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I don't agree, you lose 2/3 of your face offs you end up chasing the play for 25 seconds. Can't generate a whole lot when by the time you get the puck your shift is over. No #2 Center can be effective winning under 40% of his face offs.

The difference between 40% and 50% face-off efficiency over an entire season isn't that many possessions.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Dach has 2 seasons left on his deal (this one and next). It stands to reason that the backup plan is 2+ from now. They are laying the foundation for alternatives should Dach not be the long term answer.

If they give up on Dach we’ll see a more obvious, shorter term, solution.

I don't think we give up on Dach this early but this season will tell us a lot IMO. Does he push to the 60-80 pts range or stay at 40-60 ish.

The foundation you are talking about means more youth and transition delays to being a contender.
* Beck and Kapanen are not 2C solutions. They are 3C solutions with big hopes they can be a 2C.
* Demidov could be a 2C solution but he likely starts on wing. We will see how the Habs manage that next year.
* Hage could be a 2C solution but that is 2 or 3 years away at least.

There could very well be a gap with our 2C if Dach doesn't live up to our expectations. I hope he does. Hate taking the negative side but it's something we need to consider because delaying the transition from rebuild to contender is not ideal either. Usually, you want those transition years to be 2 years vs 4+.

 

[Ozmodiar]

I don't think we give up on Dach this early but this season will tell us a lot IMO. Does he push to the 60-80 pts range or stay at 40-60 ish.

The foundation you are talking about means more youth and transition delays to being a contender.
* Beck and Kapanen are not 2C solutions. They are 3C solutions with big hopes they can be a 2C.
* Demidov could be a 2C solution but he likely starts on wing. We will see how the Habs manage that next year.
* Hage could be a 2C solution but that is 2 or 3 years away at least.

There could very well be a gap with our 2C if Dach doesn't live up to our expectations. I hope he does. Hate taking the negative side but it's something we need to consider because delaying the transition from rebuild to contender is not ideal either. Usually, you want those transition years to be 2 years vs 4+.

You can go down the list of 6 or 7 options and say:
- more likely a winger
- probably a bottom 6
- 3 years out, not 2

… and most will be true. However, you need just 1 to step up. That’s why they load up with options - they drafted 4 in 2024.

That’s about all they can do for now, short of sending a clear message that Dach’s being replaced.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You can go down the list of 6 or 7 options and say:
- more likely a winger
- probably a bottom 6
- 3 years out, not 2

… and most will be true. However, you need just 1 to step up. That’s why they load up with options - they drafted 4 in 2024.

That’s about all they can do for now, short of sending a clear message that Dach’s being replaced.

Once again, the point here is the next 2 or 3 years. Not 4+ years. You seem to be OK with more delayed transition years after the rebuild. By the time you reach where you are going, Suzuki needs a new contract at 30+ and you just spend 4 years of middle of the pack range. Wasting Suzuki's prime! Come on man!

You don't want to be middle of the pack for too long. Bottom, Bottom, Bottom, Middle, Top, Top Top. My point here is we might have 3 years or more at the middle.

I like the options and depth you are talking about but what does that do for us in the next 2 or 3 years if Dach is not the center we need him to be. This is not some .... no problem and stay the course answer. We could be having a "we wasted Suzuki's prime" debates years later. Suzuki has 6 years left on the current deal including this year. Don't know about you but I'd like to contend in his last 4

If Dach is meh, we need to consider alternative options now vs waiting for more youth to learn on the job. I bet you Gorton/Hughes agrees with this. Not like they are going to sell the entire farm but doubt they will sit back and wait.

 

[Ozmodiar]

That's a 2+ year back up plan.

Once again, the point here is the next 2 or 3 years. Not 4+ years.

Looks like the goal posts have moved. lol

… and I didn’t say they wouldn’t act if they didn’t like Dach’s performance.

1. Lay groundwork for long term replacement. Has to be done early and proactively. Done
2. Evaluate Dach’s performance. In-progress
3. Decide if replacement is needed and whether or not it is internal. TODO

 

[Tyson]

Well since the line of Dach, Armia and Newhook is clearly not meshing...they are keeping them together. I hope they figure it out soon

 

[Habs Halifax]

Looks like the goal posts have moved. lol

… and I didn’t say they wouldn’t act if they didn’t like Dach’s performance.

1. Lay groundwork for long term replacement. Has to be done early and proactively. Done
2. Evaluate Dach’s performance. In-progress
3. Decide if replacement is needed and whether or not it is internal. TODO

Yes, we are on step 3 as the conversation starting point. This has the be the season where we find our true evaluation on Dach. Can't let is limbo on further than that.

When talking about Dach disappointing and needing a piece now, we can't talk about Beck, Kapanen, Newhook, Hage. Otherwise that's what creates the circle spin. The only two I would have confidence in being an impact 2C is Demidov or Hage but that is one again... years away

If Dach doesn't live up, this is where I land at Crosby. Perfect gap insert IMO.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well since the line of Dach, Armia and Newhook is clearly not meshing...they are keeping them together. I hope they figure it out soon

I don't think our management wants to tinker with things as fast as fans/media. Like it or not, their reality is not the same as the fans/media.

There is some value in stability. We have not had had for years with all the injuries and bouncing around. Something MSL is probably trying to implement.

 

[Rapala]

I don't think our management wants to tinker with things as fast as fans/media. Like it or not, their reality is not the same as the fans/media.

There is some value in stability. We have not had had for years with all the injuries and bouncing around. Something MSL is probably trying to implement.

Marty has already moved Slaf when things weren't going well.
He's also moved Hutson twice in a complete upheaval of our D corps.
I wouldn't underestimate their willingness to make changes in a hurry.
I'm seeing the opposite.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Marty has already moved Slaf when things weren't going well.
He's also moved Hutson twice in a complete upheaval of our D corps.
I wouldn't underestimate their willingness to make changes in a hurry.
I'm seeing the opposite.

In game changes happens but the roster looks the same heading into this next game right?

Why is the pre game Kings vs Habs thread locked? Where can we talk about this game now?

 

[Rapala]

In game changes happens but the roster looks the same heading into this next game right?

Why is the pre game Kings vs Habs thread locked? Where can we talk about this game now?

That changes had to be tried is an indication they aren't willing to sit on their hands.
We've looked pretty bad in three of our four games they won't wait long if it continues.

 

[holy]

In game changes happens but the roster looks the same heading into this next game right?

Why is the pre game Kings vs Habs thread locked? Where can we talk about this game now?

There's a GDT created.

 

[Habs Halifax]

That changes had to be tried is an indication they aren't willing to sit on their hands.
We've looked pretty bad in three of our four games they won't wait long if it continues.

Not much they can do IMO but if they don't like what they see, they will change it as best way possible. I think they will try stability until they can't

There's a GDT created.

I looked a few times and can't find it. Did I mistakenly hide the thread?

 

[Tyson]

Listening to him speak to the media this morning he didn't seem himself, sounded down a bit. He needs a confidence boost.

 

[Rapala]

Not much they can do IMO but if they don't like what they see, they will change it as best way possible. I think they will try stability until they can't



I looked a few times and can't find it. Did I mistakenly hide the thread?

There isn't much they can do with their top 6.

 

[Habs Halifax]

There isn't much they can do with their top 6.

Agreed there. Even on D it's limited.

How would you like if they flipped Guhle and Savard?

Hutson / Guhle
Matheson / Savard