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Player Discussion Kirby Dach (Part 3): TabarDach Edition!

JianYang said:
What is that saying? The best ability is availability?

He's basically the polar opposite of Suzuki in that sense. He showed good signs in year 1, but he had to be shut down that year. He was shut down in year 2 as well right at the start. In year 3, he never regained the form he showed in year 1, and he got shut down yet again playing less games than year 1.

Now he's 24, and missed too much time. He will no longer be penciled into a top 6 role. It's very much an uphill battle for him now, especially in Montreal.
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I hate to say it but you're right. We've been incredibly patient with him. We can't depend on him any more.

Give him a chance in the bottom six to salvage what he can but we can't count on him for anything.
 
Runner77 said:
Doesn’t Guhle have a significant injury history from his minor league days? If so, scouts need to pay attention — the ability to stay healthy is on par with any other skill — some even say that health is a skill.

Some players are more susceptible to injury, freak or not. If they’re missing time in their minor league career, chances are that trend will continue as an NHLer. 💀
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The main difference is Guhle is ready to go the minute he's back in. A really good game today given the pace and opposition.
70 games last season only because of a cheap shot concussion and what was a freak cut quad this season aren't the same kinds of injuries.
I've liked Guhle's game this season he hasn't been getting wrecked anywhere near like he was in previous years.
 
JianYang said:
What is that saying? The best ability is availability?

He's basically the polar opposite of Suzuki in that sense. He showed good signs in year 1, but he had to be shut down that year. He was shut down in year 2 as well right at the start. In year 3, he never regained the form he showed in year 1, and he got shut down yet again playing less games than year 1.

Now he's 24, and missed too much time. He will no longer be penciled into a top 6 role. It's very much an uphill battle for him now, especially in Montreal.
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There's no doubt they will try to acquire a high end C either via trade or as a UFA but Hughes has also been very clear that they care about fit, and if the right guy can't be acquired they won't force it. So yeah Dach can't be penciled into a top-6 role, but it also shouldn't be a total surprise if he gets another chance as 2C next year simply because odds aren't high that you can find a solution that makes sense.

And it's worth noting that Dach did have 13 points in the final 23 games, which is a 46 point pace and basically low end 2C production. Not what we hoped for but shows he was getting back on track even if it was taking way more time then we would have wanted.

Bottom line is we can't count on Dach, but we also shouldn't write him off either.
 
Hopefully Montreal can find a 2C and Dach play on the 3rd line.

Heineman-Newhook-Dach could make a decent 3rd scoring line, with Anderson-Evans-Gallagher as the 4th line.

It might give him a chance to put up some points against other teams bottom 6 lineup. But I don’t expect he’ll have a quick start to the season.
 
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Sorinth said:
There's no doubt they will try to acquire a high end C either via trade or as a UFA but Hughes has also been very clear that they care about fit, and if the right guy can't be acquired they won't force it. So yeah Dach can't be penciled into a top-6 role, but it also shouldn't be a total surprise if he gets another chance as 2C next year simply because odds aren't high that you can find a solution that makes sense.

And it's worth noting that Dach did have 13 points in the final 23 games, which is a 46 point pace and basically low end 2C production. Not what we hoped for but shows he was getting back on track even if it was taking way more time then we would have wanted.

Bottom line is we can't count on Dach, but we also shouldn't write him off either.
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Things get simple if hab players need to earn their spot moving forward, they’ll fall in their chairs.
 
Naslundforever said:
Things get simple if hab players need to earn their spot moving forward, they’ll fall in their chairs.
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So who earned the spot this year?

Newhook struggled just as much, Evans was given several opportunities in the #2 spot and did nothing there, only Dvorak wasn't given a chance and hard to claim he earned anything, especially early in the season when he was as bad as anyone.

It's never simple when there's nobody playing well enough to earn the spot.
 
Sorinth said:
So who earned the spot this year?

Newhook struggled just as much, Evans was given several opportunities in the #2 spot and did nothing there, only Dvorak wasn't given a chance and hard to claim he earned anything, especially early in the season when he was as bad as anyone.

It's never simple when there's nobody playing well enough to earn the spot.
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Noone. There’s no 2nd line. But they started giving icetime to the guys playing well and cutting it in the 3rd to win through the lineup, which is a new plateau for the team collectively. Not playing to “future potential” but to win. Literally make or break for me to watch anymore btw so I enjoy it.

For Dach that would mean “beat out Newhook, Beck, unacquired big time 2c, etc. and you have that role” vs “we’re investing a lot of hope in him so he gets 2c and we tough it out we suck anyway”. How unfair his injuries are or his draft rank, or trade price, salary, are irrelevant to the worth of his output. Also Demidov needing a good C should be higher on priorities than Dach’s future. Agree the candidate is probably not in the org unless Hage makes an immediate impact eventually but next year is super important.
 
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Sorinth said:
So who earned the spot this year?

Newhook struggled just as much, Evans was given several opportunities in the #2 spot and did nothing there, only Dvorak wasn't given a chance and hard to claim he earned anything, especially early in the season when he was as bad as anyone.

It's never simple when there's nobody playing well enough to earn the spot.
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Dach was the most useless forward on the team by a significant margin. His hotstreak he managed 13 in 23 and everyone was claiming he was back.

I feel bad for the guy, but it is what it is. He didn’t play well or bounceback from the first surgery and with all the missed time before and after it is hard to imagine him having a strong year next year. I am hoping he will be good enough to be one of our 9 best forwards, but I think that is pushing it..
 
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Naslundforever said:
Noone. There’s no 2nd line. But they started giving icetime to the guys playing well and cutting it in the 3rd to win through the lineup, which is a new plateau for the team collectively. Not playing to “future potential” but to win. Literally make or break for me to watch anymore btw so I enjoy it.

For Dach that would mean “beat out Newhook, Beck, unacquired big time 2c, etc. and you have that role” vs “we’re investing a lot of hope in him so he gets 2c and we tough it out we suck anyway”. How unfair his injuries are or his draft rank, or trade price, salary, are irrelevant to his output.
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Dach first lost the 2C spot after 6 games. This idea that we just let Dach suck and tried to tough it through because of where he was drafted or what we traded for him is pure fantasy. We did exactly what you wanted, he wasn't cutting it as 2C and we made changes 11 days into the season.
 
Sorinth said:
Dach first lost the 2C spot after 6 games. This idea that we just let Dach suck and tried to tough it through because of where he was drafted or what we traded for him is pure fantasy. We did exactly what you wanted, he wasn't cutting it as 2C and we made changes 11 days into the season.
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Interesting, it felt like months and I figured much longer, maybe I am conflating his unfortunate pp time as well. Either way we all hope he recovers and has some impact coming back; I would not be comfortable going into the season with their 4 best centerman right now, have no hopes he’s a 2c and I would love more big winger depth, nothing wrong if that’s how he turns out for me, loving Anderson and Gally right now for example.
 
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Sorinth said:
There's no doubt they will try to acquire a high end C either via trade or as a UFA but Hughes has also been very clear that they care about fit, and if the right guy can't be acquired they won't force it. So yeah Dach can't be penciled into a top-6 role, but it also shouldn't be a total surprise if he gets another chance as 2C next year simply because odds aren't high that you can find a solution that makes sense.

And it's worth noting that Dach did have 13 points in the final 23 games, which is a 46 point pace and basically low end 2C production. Not what we hoped for but shows he was getting back on track even if it was taking way more time then we would have wanted.

Bottom line is we can't count on Dach, but we also shouldn't write him off either.
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Sorinth said:
Bottom line is we can't count on Dach, but we also shouldn't write him off either.
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Oh, but we can...

The arrival of Half-a-Dove and the acquisition of a full 2C by Hughes would banish Dach to the bottom-6.

Dach's F/O skills (lack of, rather), his inexistant defensive acumen and his lack of hustle make him ill-equipped forabottom-6 role, whether it is at C or on the wing.

If he can't be traded for a 2nd round pick, he should be placed on waivers, plain and simple.
 
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Naslundforever said:
Noone. There’s no 2nd line. But they started giving icetime to the guys playing well and cutting it in the 3rd to win through the lineup, which is a new plateau for the team collectively. Not playing to “future potential” but to win. Literally make or break for me to watch anymore btw so I enjoy it.

For Dach that would mean “beat out Newhook, Beck, unacquired big time 2c, etc. and you have that role” vs “we’re investing a lot of hope in him so he gets 2c and we tough it out we suck anyway”. How unfair his injuries are or his draft rank, or trade price, salary, are irrelevant to the worth of his output. Also Demidov needing a good C should be higher on priorities than Dach’s future. Agree the candidate is probably not in the org unless Hage makes an immediate impact eventually but next year is super important.
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Demidov getting a bonafide 2C to play with should definitely be more important than Dach's future because Dach already got his fair share of chances and Demidov, if developed properly, stands a chance of becoming a franchise player in Montreal!
 
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Scriptor said:
Oh, but we can...

The arrival of Half-a-Dove and the acquisition of a full 2C by Hughes would banish Dach to the bottom-6.

Dach's F/O skills (lack of, rather), his inexistant defensive acumen and his lack of hustle make him ill-equipped forabottom-6 role, whether it is at C or on the wing.

If he can't be traded for a 2nd round pick, he should be placed on waivers, plain and simple.
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Odds are low we get a high end 2C because every team is looking for those. But sure if we do trade for Crosby or Horvat or Petterson or whichever pipe dream you have in mind then sure we can move on from Dach. But you can't write Dach off before you actually do acquire that real center.
 
Naslundforever said:
Interesting, it felt like months and I figured much longer, maybe I am conflating his unfortunate pp time as well. Either way we all hope he recovers and has some impact coming back; I would not be comfortable going into the season with their 4 best centerman right now, have no hopes he’s a 2c and I would love more big winger depth, nothing wrong if that’s how he turns out for me, loving Anderson and Gally right now for example.
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Can't count on Dach. He's a piece of glass. Why the Black Hawks got rid of him
 
Sorinth said:
Odds are low we get a high end 2C because every team is looking for those. But sure if we do trade for Crosby or Horvat or Petterson or whichever pipe dream you have in mind then sure we can move on from Dach. But you can't write Dach off before you actually do acquire that real center.
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He probably has no trade value, so “writing him off” does not really mean much? You take what he gives moving forward; a full recovery would already be great for him I figure.
 
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