Kingston Frontenacs 2024-25 Season Thread, Part II

[ScoutLife4]

Troy won a Calder cup and has probably turned more American hockey league players into Nhlers than anyone in the past 10 years lol.
But yea (hasn’t proven himself) LOL

 

[Fischhaber]

You have slightly taken it out of context and I had clarified in a later reply that you only do it out of complete necessity.

IMO, there is only one true elite goalie in our league that is most likely to play the pivotal role for a team in the playoffs and that is Carter George. The rest of the goalies may or may not have a solid playoff.

There is only one goalie in our league that has had an honest opportunity to win a Championship backstopping an elite team and that is Elliott. Both times, he lost his net in the playoffs to the backup. So, even a goalie like Elliott that put up crazy stats that should be the guy in the playoffs lost his net. Until a goalie does it, you don’t know if he can get over that mental hump. Even George you don’t know byt he will be the starter for team Canada so let’s see how he mentally handles this opportunity.

If a team currently has an OA goalie and they are uncomfortable with their goalie, there is no sense paying to upgrade OA goalies that have never been successful in the playoffs. And to be honest, none of them other than Elliott has had an honest chance so it is unfair to judge them that way but the acquiring team has to.

IMO, if Kingston is uncomfortable with Lalonde (and they should be), upgrading and paying the freight for PArsons or Schenkel is not ideal. Go get Bowen or Gillespie and fill the OA slot with a the best possible skater they can land. To me, that is a better combination. No matter what goalie they get, they won’t know whether the goalie can win.

It is not like teams can go acquire last year’s Champion like London did last year with Simpson. That player isn’t available.

Only out of sheer necessity should a team employ an OA goalie when they are vying for a championship. THIS YEAR, there may be more teams that have no or less choice, agreed. But, if the cost of acquiring Bowen is the same as acquiring Schenkel but acquiring Bowen allows for a discounted OA upgrade, take the two players vs the one.

If Bowen is available, then sure, go get him. He might cost a lot more, given that he has 2 years. The idea with Schenkel is that you can get him with 2 or 3 picks and use the rest of the assets on an impact skater, rather than paying through the nose for Bowen and being limited to adding a second pairing D or something. He hasn't been in the finals, but has performed rather well in the playoffs against the 60 minute power play that Saginaw seemed to have in every playoff game last year, thanks to papa Hache.

 

[beastintheeast]

Troy won a Calder cup and has probably turned more American hockey league players into Nhlers than anyone in the past 10 years lol.
But yea (hasn’t proven himself) LOL

Yes Mann was a good coach in the AHL but then that begs the question

Why, since he was fired in February, did no one offer him an AHL gig or NHL Asst gig?

Again, I am just saying that if he was that good a coach, he would have had offers from AHL teams. There is something that they want to see.

But my point still stands:. What agents want to know is that the next coach to replace him is not going to be like Foster of Caputi. That there is a system that will develop their players.

That is what needs to be resolved is consistent good coaching and a consistent GM that nows what he is doing.

 

[OMG67]

If Bowen is available, then sure, go get him. He might cost a lot more, given that he has 2 years. The idea with Schenkel is that you can get him with 2 or 3 picks and use the rest of the assets on an impact skater, rather than paying through the nose for Bowen and being limited to adding a second pairing D or something. He hasn't been in the finals, but has performed rather well in the playoffs against the 60 minute power play that Saginaw seemed to have in every playoff game last year, thanks to papa Hache.

The 19 year old impact player is effectively 8-10 picks. It is half that for the OA. That’s the issue. So, if it is a 2nd and 5th for Schenkel and a 2nd, 4th, 5th for Bowen, and you open up an OA slot where you can acquire the richly needed OA, it is a better use of assets. But, again, I am more responding to @dirty12 when he says that the goalie mostly doesn’t matter when the team in front is of high calibre. So, if the team in front is of high calibre, you should never use an OA slot on a goalie unless it is completely unavoidable.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Yes Mann was a good coach in the AHL but then that begs the question

Why, since he was fired in February, did no one offer him an AHL gig or NHL Asst gig?

Again, I am just saying that if he was that good a coach, he would have had offers from AHL teams. There is something that they want to see.

But my point still stands:. What agents want to know is that the next coach to replace him is not going to be like Foster of Caputi. That there is a system that will develop their players.

That is what needs to be resolved is consistent good coaching and a consistent GM that nows what he is doing.

He was under contract for a year and a half still by the Senators who would not release him to go coach the San Diego Gulls. That’s why.
They ended up finally caving to the OHL once Dorion got fired and Andlaurer bought the team.
Coaching is the last thing anyone is worried about right now in Kingston that’s for sure.

 

[OMG67]

He was under contract for a year and a half still by the Senators who would not release him to go coach the San Diego Gulls. That’s why.
They ended up finally caving to the OHL once Dorion got fired and Andlaurer bought the team.
Coaching is the last thing anyone is worried about right now in Kingston that’s for sure.

100%.

The issue in Kingston is overall organizational strength.

 

[beastintheeast]

He was under contract for a year and a half still by the Senators who would not release him to go coach the San Diego Gulls. That’s why.
They ended up finally caving to the OHL once Dorion got fired and Andlaurer bought the team.
Coaching is the last thing anyone is worried about right now in Kingston that’s for sure.

I think coaching is something agents worry about. Yes, Mann is good, and he should be in the Pro, which is the issue. What is the backup plan when he leaves? What will the system be, and what or who are they going to hire?

The development of the players is in the hands of the coach. With the turnover in coaches that Kingstn has had, it would be one thing I would look at.

Are the assistants capable of stepping up and running the same system?

Again, there is nothing wrong with Mann. I think he is what the Fronts need; I just worry about what they will do when he leaves, which really could be this summer.

 

[beastintheeast]

We may at times disagree, but it is, for the most part, enjoyable and educational.

I will not say I miss the cold weather and snow, but I do miss hockey and going to games.

So to all here

A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS

andI

A SAFE AND HAPPY NEW YEAR

 

[dirty12]

The 19 year old impact player is effectively 8-10 picks. It is half that for the OA. That’s the issue. So, if it is a 2nd and 5th for Schenkel and a 2nd, 4th, 5th for Bowen, and you open up an OA slot where you can acquire the richly needed OA, it is a better use of assets. But, again, I am more responding to @dirty12 when he says that the goalie mostly doesn’t matter when the team in front is of high calibre. So, if the team in front is of high calibre, you should never use an OA slot on a goalie unless it is completely unavoidable.

I think by seasons end the goalie stats will be a reflection of the team.
And the majority of goalies at this time at this level are so close that ‘upgrading’ is not really worth the cost and possible team upset or lingering resentment of agents and castaways.
Right now before trading season alters the competitive landscape more, might be the time to look at goalie stats. Every year there will be some roughly average talents having outstanding seasons; Elliot, Parsons, Helvig a few years ago. And an objective assessment of 7-14 stats rated goalies would probably be indifference.

 

[OMG67]

I think by seasons end the goalie stats will be a reflection of the team.
And the majority of goalies at this time at this level are so close that ‘upgrading’ is not really worth the cost and possible team upset or lingering resentment of agents and castaways.
Right now before trading season alters the competitive landscape more, might be the time to look at goalie stats. Every year there will be some roughly average talents having outstanding seasons; Elliot, Parsons, Helvig a few years ago. And an objective assessment of 7-14 stats rated goalies would probably be indifference.

100%.

I’ve always tried hard to measure playoff stats of goalies on the more competitive teams as the benchmark. It is super difficult to measure those as a comparison on subsequent seasons because in Junior hockey they typically graduate prior to having a strong enough sample size.

This is the big reason why I hump on Elliott so badly. We do actually have a strong sample size for Elliott. He lost his net twice as a starter for a 100+ point regular season team. His stellar regular season statistics did not translate into playoff success.

When looking at the goalie landscape in the OHL this year, it really is weak overall. There aren’t many goalies with any depth in playoff experience. Oster has the most translatable experience because he was in the finals last year. Unfortunately, he played in front of. A team that was basically hanging on by a threat health wise so it is difficult to really get a handle on his capability.

We are about to watch Carter George in the WJHC. Again a relatively small sample size but at least we will see him in a high pressure/leverage situation.

The playoffs are strictly about the goalie’s ability to handle the high stress and high leverage situations. It is rare we have perfect goalies. In the OHL we see goalies that make outstanding saves and then let in a stinker. It happens all the time. It is more about timing than anything else. If a goalie has the ability to stay calm in the net and not overthink results, they tend to be better able to handle the high stress situations.

This is one reason why I point to the Petes with Bowen. He’s an ‘05 and graduates to OA next year. The Petes have been happy with the advancement of Easton Rye. I think for the right price, a team can snag Bowen. He would free up an OA slot. IMO, he is a perfect fit for Kingston. Worst case scenario, he is equal to Lalonde but it allows Kingston’s o fill a gap at a much cheaper price with an OA.

Alternatively, they have Vaccari. Just roll with Vaccari. Release LAlonde and open that OA slot.

This is similar to what I suggested with London. Just roll with Medvedev. He hasn’t been any better or worse in the regular season than Elliott and we’ve seen Elliott in each of the last tw years lose his net int he playoffs, both times very early too.

If there were a Michael DiPietro out there or maybe a Michael Simpson then so be it but that goalie doesn’t exist this year. No one really gives that sure fire playoff swagger.

 

[dirty12]

100%.

I’ve always tried hard to measure playoff stats of goalies on the more competitive teams as the benchmark. It is super difficult to measure those as a comparison on subsequent seasons because in Junior hockey they typically graduate prior to having a strong enough sample size.

This is the big reason why I hump on Elliott so badly. We do actually have a strong sample size for Elliott. He lost his net twice as a starter for a 100+ point regular season team. His stellar regular season statistics did not translate into playoff success.

When looking at the goalie landscape in the OHL this year, it really is weak overall. There aren’t many goalies with any depth in playoff experience. Oster has the most translatable experience because he was in the finals last year. Unfortunately, he played in front of. A team that was basically hanging on by a threat health wise so it is difficult to really get a handle on his capability.

We are about to watch Carter George in the WJHC. Again a relatively small sample size but at least we will see him in a high pressure/leverage situation.

The playoffs are strictly about the goalie’s ability to handle the high stress and high leverage situations. It is rare we have perfect goalies. In the OHL we see goalies that make outstanding saves and then let in a stinker. It happens all the time. It is more about timing than anything else. If a goalie has the ability to stay calm in the net and not overthink results, they tend to be better able to handle the high stress situations.

This is one reason why I point to the Petes with Bowen. He’s an ‘05 and graduates to OA next year. The Petes have been happy with the advancement of Easton Rye. I think for the right price, a team can snag Bowen. He would free up an OA slot. IMO, he is a perfect fit for Kingston. Worst case scenario, he is equal to Lalonde but it allows Kingston’s o fill a gap at a much cheaper price with an OA.

Alternatively, they have Vaccari. Just roll with Vaccari. Release LAlonde and open that OA slot.

This is similar to what I suggested with London. Just roll with Medvedev. He hasn’t been any better or worse in the regular season than Elliott and we’ve seen Elliott in each of the last tw years lose his net int he playoffs, both times very early too.

If there were a Michael DiPietro out there or maybe a Michael Simpson then so be it but that goalie doesn’t exist this year. No one really gives that sure fire playoff swagger.

Humping on Elliot is just wrong I think, and I think we’ve seen a large enough sample size that London was not getting a better OA goalie anywhere. London has been to the past two finals with OAs. I hope they don’t do it again, but it’s hard to argue they’ve got the wrong idea.

 

[zaluty]

Vaccari is out 4-6 weeks maybe longer according to Mann. He mentioned it on one of his chats you can find on the Fronts website with Jordan Jackson

 

[Wolf on a Wire]

You need to find another Steve Penny

 

[frontsfan67]

Vaccari is out 4-6 weeks maybe longer according to Mann. He mentioned it on one of his chats you can find on the Fronts website with Jordan Jackson

Poor vaccari but good for Betts now they’ll be forced to play him a bit. If Betts does real well I wonder if they take him on as the full time backup and trade vaccari to somewhere that may need a half decent backup like Erie

Pulled groin?

 

[ottsabrefan]

Then they have nothing next year.

In fact Springer did save the team as a Kingston entity. There were, I am sure, other bids, but they probably would have moved the team to Hamilton or Niagara. Springer got sucked into the Lary Navety school and bought all the kool aid. Then he bought Mav Kool aid about how Gilmour would put butts in the seats.

They have ow got a GM and coach that are not part of that. It is now time to rebuild this team.

Players didn to want to come here because it was a clown show with Caputi.

Mann is setting himself up as a good coach, and the only thing agents want to know is how long he will stay and what the succession plan is.


I agree that Wright was not the saviour of this team, but I will disagree on the trade. Cooper was put in a last-minute problem where he had to trade him to whoever would make a good deal, and the Kraken and Wrtight allowed it.

Looking at it, I think the late time intentionally stressed out a new GM. Put, if Cooper had had more time, there would have been more offers, and Wright would have been behind the 8 ball.

I think it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Cooper had said that he would not trade him.


Anyway, that is done. We still have some draft picks. Lets see how the team does.

I doubt the other bids would have moved the team from what was at the time a very good OHL city to a city that had lost their team several times (Niagara, Hamilton).

And even IF that did happen Kingston would have gotten a new franchise in a heartbeat with an owner that would almost certainly have been much better.

 

[beastintheeast]

I doubt the other bids would have moved the team from what was at the time a very good OHL city to a city that had lost their team several times (Niagara, Hamilton).

And even IF that did happen Kingston would have gotten a new franchise in a heartbeat with an owner that would almost certainly have been much better.

The question, though, is who would be that owner. If I remember properly Springer was the only one interested at the time. Also, any new owner is going to want to know that there is a market and that they can get a good deal from the city.

I am not sure what the market is like there. The M Center held just over 4k with a sell-out and never reached full capacity that often even in the good days of the team.

 

[frontsfan67]

Exciting times ahead here. Now past Christmas. Trades could start in a few days here on the 28th I believe. Don’t think this is the year for them to go all in but that’s what they’ll be doing anyways.

Sit back and enjoy the ride I’m sure kingston will be one of the more active teams during the deadline. No point in pouting about what they do or don’t do at this point I don’t think they win the chip anyways but atleast they should have a very strong team in the second half here and something we haven’t really had since vilardi

 

[beastintheeast]

Poor vaccari but good for Betts now they’ll be forced to play him a bit. If Betts does real well I wonder if they take him on as the full time backup and trade vaccari to somewhere that may need a half decent backup like Erie

Pulled groin?

The problem is 4-6 weeks means he misses the deadline. Vaccari would be the perfect fit to back up Nelson in Ottawa.

 

[Wolf on a Wire]

Suggestions: If Musty is traded to whomever why don’t the Fronts make an offer for McCoy and perhaps Krawchuk?