Kingston Frontenacs 2024-25 Season Thread, Part I

[dirty12]

Maybe Dervin is available as a call-up, but SAC retain the rights to Dervin for his senior season?

 

[OMG67]

As I expected, he isn’t a part of their plans this season. It wasn’t realistic to sign him and bring him in this season. He is playing U-18 and the pace in the U-18 loop vs the OHL is crazy different. Asking a kid like this to step into the OHL mid-season with such a pace gap and expecting him to adjust during a Championship run wasn’t realistic. He was either being signed for next year or as a trade chip. Looks like we have our answer, next year.

Plus, this would be his final year of school. It didn’t make sense for him to leave st Andrews. Theoretically speaking, they could still trade his rights if it made sense but I think this is as it is being presented, a signing for next year’s rebuild.

 

[dirty12]

I know there's very differing opinions but I would love for Kingston to acquire an old school face-puncher - partially because they're entertaining as hell to watch, but also because Kingston is a smallish team without that big bruiser. That's part of the reason Konnor Smith sticks out as an OA - even though if they upgrade on Heyes its likely a forward - having that monster on the back-end could completely change how other teams play Kingston.

I don't know who all's out there but it's worth looking into.

I agree. Last game uens got flatted a couple times- took an absolute beating that game. I don’t remember by who but I know one of the shifts our Battaglia line was on and none of those guys are fighting for sure. Burns was on too and I was surprised he didn’t jump in but he’s not a tough guy at all either.

What happens if some goon absolutely levels Battaglia or Hopkins and all we have is mcgowan, little cal uens or Heyes who isn’t even a tough guy- more like a chihuahua all bark no bite.

We have nobody that can be a big imposing force like when we had Lawson crouse “the sheriff” teams backed away from our guys because they didn’t want to answer the bell with him.

As stated in an earlier post, I think Kingston should be targeting players like Clattenburg and/or McCue, not top point producers like Musty, Pinelli and Romani.

 

[Fischhaber]

With all of the talk on the Oshawa board being about Kingston I think we should all start talking on here lol.

I don’t expect kingston to make a bunch of moves but one I’d like is Allard from the Soo. They should be able to get him for Heyes, Velliaris and picks.

Put Allard top Line as the centre, get rid of Heyes (but he should find a spot on some other team- he’s proven he can be flexible this year and is always amazing on PK)

Allard will help with the loss of Heyes on the PK, he is a top line centre- not the same tier as some guys like Ritchie, Cowan, Wakely etc in the league but probably a tier 2 guy like the Luke Misa’s, Pano Fimis’s of the league. He has an A on his jersey so that implies he is a capable leader (as Heyes is) Also he is a lot more talented than Heyes so that’ll help.

I wonder if this would work for a trade. FYI SSM is without their 5th in 2025, 3rd in 2026, 2nd in 2027

To Kingston: Owen Allard

To SSM: Gage Heyes, Xander Velliaris(reunite the 2 brothers? Lol) BRA 5th 2025, FLNT 2nd 2026, KGN 3rd 2027, FLNT 3rd 2028

I think you'll have to a bit better than 2,3,3,5 and filler for a World Junior caliber player, but a trade along those lines is definitely a possibility. A guy like Vann Williamson instead of Velliaris or an additional 2nd rounder would probably be considered.

 

[dirty12]

As I expected, he isn’t a part of their plans this season. It wasn’t realistic to sign him and bring him in this season. He is playing U-18 and the pace in the U-18 loop vs the OHL is crazy different. Asking a kid like this to step into the OHL mid-season with such a pace gap and expecting him to adjust during a Championship run wasn’t realistic. He was either being signed for next year or as a trade chip. Looks like we have our answer, next year.

Plus, this would be his final year of school. It didn’t make sense for him to leave st Andrews. Theoretically speaking, they could still trade his rights if it made sense but I think this is as it is being presented, a signing for next year’s rebuild.

St. Andrews probably has a better development program than any jr team in Ontario.

I think you'll have to a bit better than 2,3,3,5 and filler for a World Junior caliber player, but a trade along those lines is definitely a possibility. A guy like Vann Williamson instead of Velliaris or an additional 2nd rounder would probably be considered.

Allard is probably worth Heyes, 2,3,3,5. If the Soo has a silly ask just pivot to Swick, VanSteensel, McCoy, …

 

[OMG67]

St. Andrews probably has a better development program than any jr team in Ontario.



Allard is probably worth Heyes, 2,3,3,5. If the Soo has a silly ask just pivot to Swick, VanSteensel, McCoy, …

St Andrews is a good program. There is no doubt about that but players go there more because of the education aspect. The prep school really does help prepare the player for higher education. It is good that he is graduating there before coming to the OHL.

I think you are pretty accurate on Allard. That may even be a bit much to be honest. I’d think that is the max. If you look at the Kressler, Dubois, Maillet and Mayer deals last year, they hovered in that range with Maillet being the highest with the 2-3-3-5. I think Allard is in the same range as those players value wise. And, as you point out, there are others that would fill a similar role potentially available and easily acquired.

 

[dirty12]

St Andrews is a good program. There is no doubt about that but players go there more because of the education aspect. The prep school really does help prepare the player for higher education. It is good that he is graduating there before coming to the OHL.

I think you are pretty accurate on Allard. That may even be a bit much to be honest. I’d think that is the max. If you look at the Kressler, Dubois, Maillet and Mayer deals last year, they hovered in that range with Maillet being the highest with the 2-3-3-5. I think Allard is in the same range as those players value wise. And, as you point out, there are others that would fill a similar role potentially available and easily acquired.

Yeah, I don’t think Allard is setting a new cost standard for OAs. He is not Wakely even if one person describes Allard as WJC calibre. Allard (might) be the best fit for Brampton or Kingston, so a return on the higher side of precedented prices should not surprise.

In addition to an excellent education, SAC provides equal or better coaching and training infrastructure than any junior team in Ontario.

 

[OMG67]

Yeah, I don’t think Allard is setting a new cost standard for OAs. He is not Wakely even if one person describes Allard as WJC calibre. Allard (might) be the best fit for Brampton or Kingston, so a return on the higher side of precedented prices should not surprise.

In addition to an excellent education, SAC provides equal or better coaching and training infrastructure than any junior team in Ontario.

The fact he is a centre would make a difference but I cannot see a Wakely style deal either.

 

[dirty12]

The fact he is a centre would make a difference but I cannot see a Wakely style deal either.

LW for Kingston unless moving Hopkins to wing I think, and probably #1 centre for Brampton.
I really like the idea of Allard-McNamara-Uronen TBH

 

[leafs4life94]

LW for Kingston unless moving Hopkins to wing I think, and probably #1 centre for Brampton.
I really like the idea of Allard-McNamara-Uronen TBH

I think they'd move McMamara over before Allard

 

[OMG67]

I think they'd move McMamara over before Allard

I think they would keep Allard at centre as well. I think Hopkins or Allard on line 2-3 doesn’t really make much of a difference. Each line will have a responsibility and Allard ont he 3rd line probably makes more sense as a shut down style line.

 

[Fischhaber]

St. Andrews probably has a better development program than any jr team in Ontario.



Allard is probably worth Heyes, 2,3,3,5. If the Soo has a silly ask just pivot to Swick, VanSteensel, McCoy, …

You can argue that those players are comparable to Allard offensively, but I think you underestimate the value that teams put on an elite shutdown centre.

 

[dirty12]

I think they'd move McMamara over before Allard

Allard has played a lot of LW. While I am certain that he is better defensively than McNamara, Allard is not a creative puck distributor by any means. Just a personal preference, I think Allard-McNamara-Urononen would work better than McNamara at LW.

 

[dirty12]

You can argue that those players are comparable to Allard offensively, but I think you underestimate the value that teams put on an elite shutdown centre.

Oh, I would say without doubt that those players are better than Allard offensively. I would not not describe Allard as elite defensively, or even equal to Wakely. I would have a slight preference of Allard over VanSteensel because he is faster and heavier.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Trading for Allard to have him play Wing wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for Kingston imo.

His profile is basically that of a 2 way forward but doesn't have much of a shot but brings a physical side.
I think having him C Uronen is probably the way to go as Uronen needs a strong C who can win battles and pass the rock.
I think if you have him on the wing with offensive expectations they would be disappointed.

 

[dirty12]

Trading for Allard to have him play Wing wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for Kingston imo.

His profile is basically that of a 2 way forward but doesn't have much of a shot but brings a physical side.
I think having him C Uronen is probably the way to go as Uronen needs a strong C who can win battles and pass the rock.
I think if you have him on the wing with offensive expectations they would be disappointed.

I know you’re not acquiring Allard for his ability to distribute the puck. He is fast and heavy, and determined to win battles and races for the puck.

 

[ScoutLife4]

I know you’re not acquiring Allard for his ability to distribute the puck. He is fast and heavy, and determined to win battles and races for the puck.

Probably comes down to F/O success for the decision.
I haven't looked into the data but i'm guessing he's a better Faceoff guy then Mcnamara.

 

[Fischhaber]

Oh, I would say without doubt that those players are better than Allard offensively. I would not not describe Allard as elite defensively, or even equal to Wakely. I would have a slight preference of Allard over VanSteensel because he is faster and heavier.

Luckily, we have experts and scouts who would strongly, strongly disagree with you about his defense. He made team Canada because of it and he got drafted as a 19 year old (rare) because of it. That matches up with the eye test as well.

I'll take their opinion over that of a person who has a deeper hatred for Allard's team than anyone I have ever discussed hockey with.

 

[dirty12]

Probably comes down to F/O success for the decision.
I haven't looked into the data but i'm guessing he's a better Faceoff guy then Mcnamara.

Idk that stat either. I’d guess 50-50 or I’d be aware

Luckily, we have experts and scouts who would strongly, strongly disagree with you about his defense. He made team Canada because of it and he got drafted as a 19 year old (rare) because of it. That matches up with the eye test as well.

I'll take their opinion over that of a person who has a deeper hatred for Allard's team than anyone I have ever discussed hockey with.

Only god knows what hockey Canada was thinking, it was such a reach.

 

[leafs4life94]

Luckily, we have experts and scouts who would strongly, strongly disagree with you about his defense. He made team Canada because of it and he got drafted as a 19 year old (rare) because of it. That matches up with the eye test as well.

I'll take their opinion over that of a person who has a deeper hatred for Allard's team than anyone I have ever discussed hockey with.

There's a difference between a WJC player and an WJC calibre player - I think everyone understands that they don't always take the best players and IMO this is a clear case of it - I have nothing against Allard but using WJC tag to inflate his value isn't fair to him as a player. No team is going to pay more just because he played WJC.

The fact he's the only WJC skater that is back as an OA is a clear indictment that it was a questionable selection.