Kingston Frontenacs 2024-25 Season Thread, Part I

[ScoutLife4]

100%
I'm actually surprised #91 hasn't asked for a trade after last season and very little opportunity as a high 1st round OHL pick.
In the game vs Niagara, I think #22 had 8-10 shifts and #73 barely played - maybe 6 shifts??. I know some regular posters are high on the Head Coach but very soon agents won't send their players to play in Kingston and established players have asked out.
Not a good look.

16 year olds usually do not play first line minutes in their rookie year.
Hopkins needed to put on some muscle / size and he did that over the past year.
He did what was asked of him and now is playing 20 minutes a game....

Buttar had 8 shifts and honestly does not look close to being ready for the O this season imo.
Weir only played 3 shifts. Kelly played 4 shifts.
This 4th line won't get much ice time and quite frankly it shouldn't because it's not going to compete in this league.

 

[leafs4life94]

Overall	Player	Seasons	GP	G	A	TP	PIM
#1	Shane Wright (F)	4​	141​	86​	111​	197​	38​	#1C until traded away for weak return
#27	Francesco Arcuri (F)	3​	197​	89​	96​	185​	77​	Top line player until traded away
#43	Maddox Callens (F)	5​	183​	35​	30​	65​	84​	Bottom 6 player, not good enough to be OA
#63	Braden Haché (D)	5​	217​	15​	36​	51​	237​	#2 D, asked out as 19 y/o
#118	Owen Watson (F)	PPG CCHL player, NCAA D3
#124	James Norton (G)	Solid numbers across the board, NCAA D1
#128	Chase Costantino (D)	2​	18​	0​	0​	0​	2​	Left hockey after 21-22
#144	Jake Coleman (F)	Good Jr B numbers
#164	Cameron Walker (F)	1​	1​	0​	0​	0​	0​	Didn't even know he played a game as call-up w/ Sudbury
#184	Nathan Oickle (D)	Solid Jr A, NCAA D1
#204	Cayden Faust (F)	Solid Jr A, U Sports
#224	Jonah Cochrane (D)	Jr A - nothing for this year
#244	Donovan Powell (D)	NCDC
#264	Max Smolinski (D)	USHL - NCAA
#284	Barret Joynt (F)	Local - played Jr A, nothing for this year
Overall	Player	Seasons	GP	G	A	TP	PIM
#5	Paul Ludwinski (F)	4​	174​	48​	98​	146​	59​	Top 6 player, should have been traded last year
#54	Nathan Poole (F)	4​	144​	17​	14​	31​	142​	Good bottom 6 C, lighting it up in the OJHL, not good enough to be OA
#59	Tommy Budnick (D)	5​	187​	8​	49​	57​	202​	2nd pair D, asked out, good return (2/3/3)
#64	Jackson Stewart (F)	3​	174​	16​	15​	31​	299​	Fun bottom 6 player, traded away with picks for Uens
#85	Gage Heyes (F)	4​	156​	21​	16​	37​	117​	Good bottom 6 Winger, temporary spot as OA but likely will be upgraded
#119	Sawyer Prokopetz (D)	Jr A, NCAA commit
#125	Lane Hutson (D)	Elite player, never had a chance to come here
#145	Harrison Ballard (F)	1​	20​	0​	1​	1​	0​	Traded away before playing a game w/ Kingston
#165	Richard Szajek (G)	Bad Jr A numbers, stopped playing after '23
#185	Luka Sukovic (F)	NAHL/AJHL, NCAA commit
#205	William Moore (D)	Jr A/B
#225	Nolan McKibbin (D)	Jr B, now playing Jr C
#242	Christian Berini (F)	Low Jr A numbers, now playing Sr hockey (EOSHL)
#265	Isaac Brown (F)	Jr C
#285	Noah Beaulne (G)	Meh numbers in NOJHL
Overall	Player	Seasons	GP	G	A	TP	PIM
#5	Matthew Soto (F)	4​	176​	48​	78​	126​	38​	Good 2nd line winger
#34	Mitchell Brooks (F)	2​	70​	7​	7​	14​	8​	Weak OHL player
#35	Quinton Burns (D)	4​	157​	8​	62​	70​	289​	Top pair D
#61	Mason Vaccari (G)	3​	90​	-	-	-	-	Low end starting goalie, probably over worked the last couple years
#75	Christopher Thibodeau (F)	4​	187​	42​	71​	113​	60​	Small but extremely skilled, traded away
#94	Duncan Schneider (D)	3​	102​	1​	6​	7​	50​	Bottom 6 D at best, now in Jr A
#124	Adam Cavallin (F)	2​	86​	7​	7​	14​	34​	Bottom 6 at best, now in the Q
#155	Andrew Kuzma (F)	USHL -> NCAA
#164	Michael Chambre (G)	NTDP/USHL -> NCAA
#184	Maleek McGowan (D)	4​	93​	4​	17​	21​	68​	Middle pair D at best, good value pick
#214	Antoine Dorion (F)	Jr A then QMJHL, somehow NHL drafted
#244	Jake Mallory (F)	Jr A
#254	Izayah Luddington (D)	Jr B -Jr A
#275	Fionn Keon (F)	Prep School
#284	Dante Siciliano (D)	Played all over -> NCAA commit
Overall	Team	Seasons	GP	G	A	TP	PIM
#17	Gabriel Frasca (F)	3​	104​	30​	36​	66​	52​	2C, asked out
#27	Jacob Battaglia (F)	3​	136​	41​	58​	99​	54​	1LW
#79	Vann Williamson (D)	3​	56​	4​	11​	15​	21​	Bottom 6 D now, potentially middle 6 next year
#99	Andoni Fimis (D)	Jr A > BCHL > NCAA commit
#128	Miller Kay (F)	Jr A
#139	Tanner Morgan (F)	USHL, NCAA commit
#159	JJ Salajko (G)	1​	12​	-	-	-	-	Not OHL quality, now in Jr B
#179	Tommy Karmiris (F)	Jr A > BCHL
#199	Matthew Frost (F)	USHL/BCHL > NCAA commit
#219	Keaton Bartlett (D)	Jr B
#243	Cameron Bergeron (D)	1​	7​	1​	0​	1​	0​	Jr A, played games d/t injury, apparently left hockey?
#257	Antoine Gauthier (F)	Prep > BCHL > NCAA commit
#259	Luciano Bruno (F)	Jr A > BCHL > NCAA commit
#279	Elias Greenwood (F)	Prep/Jr A
#299	Cole Hutson (D)	Same as his brother, no chance he was coming here
Overall	Player	Seasons	GP	G	A	TP	PIM
#4	Tyler Hopkins (F)	2​	62​	7​	9​	16​	17​	Top 6 potential but needs to get extended opportunity
#42	Ethan Weir (F)	2​	8​	0​	0​	0​	0​	Haven't seen much but also hasn't gotten much opportunity
#45	Xander Velliaris (D)	2​	13​	1​	0​	1​	2​	Bottom 6 D at best
#78	Lukas Moore (D)	1​	-	-	-	-	-	Signed but hasn't played yet
#86	Kieren Dervin (F)	Prep > NCAA
#106	Nolan Turnbull (D)	Jr A
#118	Seth Goble (F)	U18 last year, nothing for this year, was at camp
#126	Noah Paddock (G)	Jr A
#146	Kevin Perreault (D)	NAHL > NCAA commit
#166	Matthew Manza (F)	Jr A > BCHL > NCAA commit
#186	Gavin Puhl (F)	Jr B
#206	Andre Mondoux (D)	Jr A
#226	Griffen Boyle (F)	Jr A
#246	Reece Herman (G)	Jr A
#286	Cole Ellis (D)	Jr A

Bored on a Friday morning at work so I decided to whip this up - Kingston's drafts from 2019-2023 and where each player is now/little comments from me on OHL players. I don't know what the norm is for OHL regulars per draft is but considering they'll have at MOST 6/7 players from the 2022 and 2023 drafts combined.

I sound like a parrot but it's no damn wonder they have no depth. I'd be curious to know how many of the NCAA guys were NCAA from the beginning or if they were on the fence and decided NCAA was better than Kingston.

16 year olds usually do not play first line minutes in their rookie year.
Hopkins needed to put on some muscle / size and he did that over the past year.
He did what was asked of him and now is playing 20 minutes a game....

Buttar had 8 shifts and honestly does not look close to being ready for the O this season imo.
Weir only played 3 shifts. Kelly played 4 shifts.
This 4th line won't get much ice time and quite frankly it shouldn't because it's not going to compete in this league.
View attachment 912283

MAN I wish this was available to the public.

Obviously this would never happen but I almost wonder if they'd be better off going into a game wiht 3 lines (or picking up older FA to fill out the 4th) and then letting the Kelly/Buttar/Weir line develop in Jr A/B - although at this point getting concerned Weir isn't an OHL player. I haven't seen anything of significance from him in the couple games I've watched.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Bored on a Friday morning at work so I decided to whip this up - Kingston's drafts from 2019-2023 and where each player is now/little comments from me on OHL players. I don't know what the norm is for OHL regulars per draft is but considering they'll have at MOST 6/7 players from the 2022 and 2023 drafts combined.

I sound like a parrot but it's no damn wonder they have no depth. I'd be curious to know how many of the NCAA guys were NCAA from the beginning or if they were on the fence and decided NCAA was better than Kingston.

MAN I wish this was available to the public.

Obviously this would never happen but I almost wonder if they'd be better off going into a game wiht 3 lines (or picking up older FA to fill out the 4th) and then letting the Kelly/Buttar/Weir line develop in Jr A/B - although at this point getting concerned Weir isn't an OHL player. I haven't seen anything of significance from him in the couple games I've watched.

It's available to the public for about 3K a year i believe...Lol.
The last 2 drafts have been unacceptable imo. -They had some decent hits before that.
I would imagine this is getting some attention at least i would hope.....

 

[leafs4life94]

It's available to the public for about 3K a year i believe...Lol.
The last 2 drafts have been unacceptable imo. -They had some decent hits before that.
I would imagine this is getting some attention at least i would hope.....

I should rephrase - I wish it was available to the public for free LOL.

Yeah if this year turns out poorly I wonder if they start looking at a change. Especially with two 1sts coming up they need to make sure they hit on both of them. Even as recently as Oshawa and Saginaw in the '22 draft - Oshawa gets Sennecke and Danford, Saginaw gets Misa and Parekh (Misa was a gimme but the point stands) - both those teams have made deep runs and the double 1sts have been massive parts of it.

 

[ScoutLife4]

I should rephrase - I wish it was available to the public for free LOL.

Yeah if this year turns out poorly I wonder if they start looking at a change. Especially with two 1sts coming up they need to make sure they hit on both of them. Even as recently as Oshawa and Saginaw in the '22 draft - Oshawa gets Sennecke and Danford, Saginaw gets Misa and Parekh (Misa was a gimme but the point stands) - both those teams have made deep runs and the double 1sts have been massive parts of it.

Hitting on those first couple picks is essential.
With that said projecting 15-16 year old kids is not an easy task either.

 

[dirty12]

I should rephrase - I wish it was available to the public for free LOL.

Yeah if this year turns out poorly I wonder if they start looking at a change. Especially with two 1sts coming up they need to make sure they hit on both of them. Even as recently as Oshawa and Saginaw in the '22 draft - Oshawa gets Sennecke and Danford, Saginaw gets Misa and Parekh (Misa was a gimme but the point stands) - both those teams have made deep runs and the double 1sts have been massive parts of it.

Hopefully the first round of the 2025 is loaded with talent. The 2022 draft class is better than the 2020-21 classes, so Brampton, Oshawa, Saginaw; and potentially Brantford and Ottawa will benefit from two ‘22-1sts.

 

[beastintheeast]

You have to take into accouont that players were used to Caputi and not having to be responsible.

Mann has a plan and needs time to develop the players. The ones that left were not that great if they were they might have been drafted.


I agree that drafting has not been as good as it could have been but that seems to be a problem that a lot of GM's are having. I get the feeling that scouting has not developed the way it should be Otawa is having the same problem.

As to the 4th line this is where the decision of the owner and GM comes into things. Aty this stage of the season the 4th line should be getting a good bit of ice time so that they can develop.

 

[ScoutLife4]

You have to take into accouont that players were used to Caputi and not having to be responsible.

Mann has a plan and needs time to develop the players. The ones that left were not that great if they were they might have been drafted.


I agree that drafting has not been as good as it could have been but that seems to be a problem that a lot of GM's are having. I get the feeling that scouting has not developed the way it should be Otawa is having the same problem.

As to the 4th line this is where the decision of the owner and GM comes into things. Aty this stage of the season the 4th line should be getting a good bit of ice time so that they can develop.

I mean OHL Scouting is practically volunteer work for people wanting to land with a Pro organization so they are also the ones developing... -i would say it's absolutely a must to have a very good director of scouting that can provide his team direction and a capable GM/AGM.

 

[beastintheeast]

I mean OHL Scouting is practically volunteer work for people wanting to land with a Pro organization so they are also the ones developing... -i would say it's absolutely a must to have a very good director of scouting that can provide his team direction and a capable GM/AGM.

Agreed but i think some of the owners to cut costs are using the OHL scouting reports and let's face it cooper is a babe when it comes to being a GM.

 

[leafs4life94]

Hitting on those first couple picks is essential.
With that said projecting 15-16 year old kids is not an easy task either.

Agreed - which actually makes their relatively successful '21 draft more impressive because there was no U16 hockey for those kids.

 

[zaluty]

Last time we had double picks we landed McKeown and Bennett. Similar would be acceptable lol.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Last time we had double picks we landed McKeown and Bennett. Similar would be acceptable lol.

Kingston isn't in a horrible place as they have a stock cupboard and 2 first rounds next year.
I'm afraid they are going to unload those picks and still not be good enough.

@OMG67 I think hit the nail on the head this summer with the prediction of how this would work out.
Kingston does not have the foundation to be better then Brampton or Oshawa.
I think they can be better then Brantford and maybe even Barrie with a few tweaks.
This season was not the right season to go for it.

 

[dirty12]

Kingston isn't in a horrible place as they have a stock cupboard and 2 first rounds next year.
I'm afraid they are going to unload those picks and still not be good enough.

@OMG67 I think hit the nail on the head this summer with the prediction of how this would work out.
Kingston does not have the foundation to be better then Brampton or Oshawa.
I think they can be better then Brantford and maybe even Barrie with a few tweaks.
This season was not the right season to go for it.

It was the right season to go for it. There is nothing that could be done about Barrie and Brampton being a year ahead of schedule because the 2022 draft class is quite simply better than the 2020-21 classes.
Kingston has to play out the season; and hope things work out just like Barrie, Brampton, Oshawa, and Sudbury do. With the addition of the right forward and one defenceman, Kingston can improve more than a Brampton team that is pretty much settled other than an addition to their top six.

 

[ScoutLife4]

It was the right season to go for it. There is nothing that could be done about Barrie and Brampton being a year ahead of schedule because the 2022 draft class is quite simply better than the 2020-21 classes.
Kingston has to play out the season, and hope things work out just like Barrie, Brampton, Oshawa, and Sudbury do. With the addition of the right forward and one defenceman, Kingston can improve more than a Brampton team that is pretty much settled other than an addition to their top six.

Kingston will not be better then Brampton Or Oshawa by adding Wakely and a top pairing Dman.
If they do that they will exhaust all their picks and still finish third behind both Oshawa and Brampton.
The forward group still would not be as good as either and the Goaltending would still be MILES behind.
I think the worst case scenario is following you're idea now. Emptying the cupboard and finishing 3rd-5th. And it's probably what we are about to witness. (If they can even find players good enough to accept trades here)

 

[leafs4life94]

Kingston will not be better then Brampton Or Oshawa by adding Wakely and a top pairing Dman.
If they do that they will exhaust all their picks and still finish third behind both Oshawa and Brampton.
The forward group still would not be as good as either and the Goaltending would still be MILES behind.
I think the worst case scenario is following you're idea now. Emptying the cupboard and finishing 3rd-5th. And it's probably what we are about to witness. (If they can even find players good enough to accept trades here)

I seem to remember someone posting somewhere that Wakely turned down a trade to Kingston - any truth to that?

 

[dirty12]

Kingston will not be better then Brampton Or Oshawa by adding Wakely and a top pairing Dman.
If they do that they will exhaust all their picks and still finish third behind both Oshawa and Brampton.
The forward group still would not be as good as either and the Goaltending would still be MILES behind.
I think the worst case scenario is following you're idea now. Emptying the cupboard and finishing 3rd-5th. And it's probably what we are about to witness. (If they can even find players good enough to accept trades here)

Brampton and Oshawa are far from flawless teams. And yeah, Wakely out against their top lines would make a world of difference; been there, done that with a 17 yr old rookie on his wing vs Musty-Dvorsky-Goyette.
As you witnessed last spring, Barlow and Oster could out of the playoffs by the first period of game two.

 

[zaluty]

Still say the biggest mistake last year was not trading Ludwinski for a 16yr old and picks

 

[dirty12]

I seem to remember someone posting somewhere that Wakely turned down a trade to Kingston - any truth to that?

That was posted, though not substantiated. Wakely is supposedly very discouraged about not getting signed and assigned to the AHL; and pondering his next move

 

[ScoutLife4]

I seem to remember someone posting somewhere that Wakely turned down a trade to Kingston - any truth to that?

Wakely camp wants him in Oshawa or Brampton for obvious reasons. Wouldn't be shocked to see Oshawa happen

 

[dirty12]

Wakely camp wants him in Oshawa or Brampton for obvious reasons. Wouldn't be shocked to see Oshawa happen

Word is, Wakely does not want to play in the OHL.

 

[OMG67]

Many teams are still waiting on players returning. It will be interesting to see the lineups once it all shakes down.

Kingston will still be competitive either way. It more comes down to how far they want to take it. But, regardless, The top teams will continue to build and get stronger. All of Oshawa, Brampton, and Barrie will add to their rosters 100%. Brantford may but I see them looking to add 18 year olds that are returning next year.

This is the reason why I felt it would be prudent for Kingston to wait to see how the market evolves before making the more extreme moves.

 

[dirty12]

Many teams are still waiting on players returning. It will be interesting to see the lineups once it all shakes down.

Kingston will still be competitive either way. It more comes down to how far they want to take it. But, regardless, The top teams will continue to build and get stronger. All of Oshawa, Brampton, and Barrie will add to their rosters 100%. Brantford may but I see them looking to add 18 year olds that are returning next year.

This is the reason why I felt it would be prudent for Kingston to wait to see how the market evolves before making the more extreme moves.

Really depends how cocky management is. Brampton should really want to avoid bigger teams with top, top lines for as long as possible.
The same idea should pertain to Kingston imo.

 

[OMG67]

Really depends how cocky management is. Brampton should really want to avoid bigger teams with top, top lines for as long as possible.
The same idea should pertain to Kingston imo.

Yes. And that is the key. First see what returns. Oshawa is a big wildcard. They are a completely different team if Ritchie and Roobroeck don’t return. If they do return, it is going to be tough for Kingston to make the types of deals required. But, if they don’t return, the division may be pretty wide open for the taking.

Obviously, Kingston can only control what they do. They cannot control what other teams do. If one or two other teams go out and blow their brains out on trades and the pieces end up all fitting, what can you do? It is for this reason that I have always felt like Kingston should hold back. Fill their OA spots accordingly (adding Guindon) is fine. They needed a centre and they went and got one. But, the rest of the moves they make from this point forward would be considered luxury moves. Things like upgrading OA’s, goalies, and adding graduating players are luxury moves meant to bolster a roster. They aren’t’ necessary to be competitive, only to make a push for the playoffs and a Championship. They can wait on those moves.

The other advantage of waiting is it gives some depth players an opportunity to impress. See what Hopkins can do in an elevated role. Is McNamarra better suited on the wing or is he a true centre? These questions can be answered if you allow the team to push through obstacles. If you support them with trades from day one, you are pigeonholing the players into roles that may not further develop them.

 

[dirty12]

Yes. And that is the key. First see what returns. Oshawa is a big wildcard. They are a completely different team if Ritchie and Roobroeck don’t return. If they do return, it is going to be tough for Kingston to make the types of deals required. But, if they don’t return, the division may be pretty wide open for the taking.

Obviously, Kingston can only control what they do. They cannot control what other teams do. If one or two other teams go out and blow their brains out on trades and the pieces end up all fitting, what can you do? It is for this reason that I have always felt like Kingston should hold back. Fill their OA spots accordingly (adding Guindon) is fine. They needed a centre and they went and got one. But, the rest of the moves they make from this point forward would be considered luxury moves. Things like upgrading OA’s, goalies, and adding graduating players are luxury moves meant to bolster a roster. They aren’t’ necessary to be competitive, only to make a push for the playoffs and a Championship. They can wait on those moves.

The other advantage of waiting is it gives some depth players an opportunity to impress. See what Hopkins can do in an elevated role. Is McNamarra better suited on the wing or is he a true centre? These questions can be answered if you allow the team to push through obstacles. If you support them with trades from day one, you are pigeonholing the players into roles that may not further develop them.

I was a bit surprised to see Danford named captain, maybe we don’t see Ritchie returned until after WJC. Some NHL games and some ‘conditioning periods’ in the AHL would be good for Ritchie

 

[OMG67]

I was a bit surprised to see Danford named captain, maybe we don’t see Ritchie returned until after WJC. Some NHL games and some ‘conditioning periods’ in the AHL would be good for Ritchie

Sounds about right.