Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Season Thread (Part 2)

[beastintheeast]

The Steelheads intend to play the long game with their excellent 2006 born core. They may do nothing significant prior to the deadline.
If aggressive early, Kingston could very well be the team to catch at the next deadline. The team has 7-2005 born selected within four rounds and an import, and a few very good 2006-07; and the picks to add DeAngelis/VanVliet and McCoy/Collins or Mathurin and Leblanc-Leblanc or any combination of OAs they deem fit as the pre-season comes to an end.

looking at the lineup you presently have, I am unsure how you think they will be a powerhouse early in the year. Brantford Mississauga and Oshawa will be coming back with almost everyone returning.

Kingston will need to build a defence corp that has size and can play.

Then there is the goaltending. Do you think Vaccari and Salajko will be better next year?

Kingston is going to need to draft a goalie who can step in and play major games to help or replace Vaccari.

You need to find a defenceman who can play and get rid of a couple of them.

Sorry, I see Kington, Barrie, and Ottawa fighting for 45 6, and do not count out Niagara. I think they may surprise people next year.

 

[dirty12]

looking at the lineup you presently have, I am unsure how you think they will be a powerhouse early in the year. Brantford Mississauga and Oshawa will be coming back with almost everyone returning.

Kingston will need to build a defence corp that has size and can play.

Then there is the goaltending. Do you think Vaccari and Salajko will be better next year?

Kingston is going to need to draft a goalie who can step in and play major games to help or replace Vaccari.

You need to find a defenceman who can play and get rid of a couple of them.

Sorry, I see Kington, Barrie, and Ottawa fighting for 45 6, and do not count out Niagara. I think they may surprise people next year.

Could be the team to catch at the deadline if getting two of the best available OA D pre-season and powerhouse are two very different things.
At this time I’m not picking a definitive powerhouse for next season. Barrie, Brampton, Brantford, Kingston, Oshawa, and potentially Sudbury and Niagara will prove to be too much competition imo for any one team to be running away with the conference at the Christmas break as OMG suggests.

 

[dirty12]

Graduations early has more to do with the depth chart and quality of the team drafting. Of course, there are always the obvious ones in the top 3 or so but outside that, it really comes down to positional weakness and overall weakness of the drafting team.

With respect to Martone, I’d pay closer attention to the NHL team he goes to. Take a look at their track record of pulling Juniors early. Tale a look at their depth chart and overall prospect pool. That should inform the decison.

So why speak of or be concerned with early graduation now for Martone when his draft year is 2025? A few of Dickinson, Greentree, Parekh, M.Misa, Spence, Villeneuve, Senneke, Beaudoin, and others could very well be greater threats for early graduation.

 

[beastintheeast]

Could be the team to catch at the deadline if getting two of the best available OA D pre-season and powerhouse are two very different things.
At this time I’m not picking a definitive powerhouse for next season. Barrie, Brampton, Brantford, Kingston, Oshawa, and potentially Sudbury and Niagara will prove to be too much competition imo for any one team to be running away with the conference at the Christmas break as OMG suggests.

LOL the one thing I find hilarious on this forum is the DREAMERS. They could be if they trade and get the best OS D available in pre-season. The best OA D in pre-season are players that you really do not want to count on.

For example, in 2005, the 2 best OA D you will have are Uen and Chromiak. If you were another team needing D would you trade for them?

Ottawa has Sirman and Smyth available. Do you want to trade for them?

All I am saying is that there are a lot of teams that are returning lineups that are already better than Kingston. The good OA will not be available until near the deadline when teams see what they have and need.

 

[dirty12]

LOL the one thing I find hilarious on this forum is the DREAMERS. They could be if they trade and get the best OS D available in pre-season. The best OA D in pre-season are players that you really do not want to count on.

For example, in 2005, the 2 best OA D you will have are Uen and Chromiak. If you were another team needing D would you trade for them?

Ottawa has Sirman and Smyth available. Do you want to trade for them?

All I am saying is that there are a lot of teams that are returning lineups that are already better than Kingston. The good OA will not be available until near the deadline when teams see what they have and need.

Clouds of smoke in the brain? What does a 2005 born import have to do with OA D this coming pre-season?
Kingston will need two D more than anything else to compete at the top of the conference. That team will not have much need forward to start.
There will be good OA D available early to teams willing to give near mid-season value. All of McCoy, DeAngelis, VanVliet, Collins, Mathurin, Leblanc likely return for an OA season and cannot all be rostered by their current teams.

 

[OMG67]

So why speak of or be concerned with early graduation now for Martone when his draft year is 2025? A few of Dickinson, Greentree, Parekh, M.Misa, Spence, Villeneuve, Senneke, Beaudoin, and others could very well be greater threats for early graduation.

I never spoke of his early graduation. I only stated for those worried about early graduations in general, look at the NHL team. You cannot talk of early graduation until the player is drafted unless it is a top 3-4 type player.

 

[dirty12]

I never spoke of his early graduation. I only stated for those worried about early graduations in general, look at the NHL team. You cannot talk of early graduation until the player is drafted unless it is a top 3-4 type player.

Perhaps I mixed responses to my suggestion that Brampton will not likely sacrifice 2025-26 with an ‘all-in’ 2024-25. I thought you agreed with another and suggested the Steelheads buy heavy next season in part because Martone is a big early graduate risk.
I do not think Martone is any more of a risk to graduate early than a half-dozen that I listed. It’s way too early too be of concern with that imo.

 

[HockeyPops]

Brampton

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[dirty12]

?

Brampton Steelheads.

 

[ktownfan]

Big win yesterday. Much needed.

 

[OMG67]

Perhaps I mixed responses to my suggestion that Brampton will not likely sacrifice 2025-26 with an ‘all-in’ 2024-25. I thought you agreed with another and suggested the Steelheads buy heavy next season in part because Martone is a big early graduate risk.
I do not think Martone is any more of a risk to graduate early than a half-dozen that I listed. It’s way too early too be of concern with that imo.

No. I think they will buy heavy because that is what it will take to get Misa and I feel Misa is primed for that move. Once they do that, they may as well go all the way.

I do feel that Missy may be able to compete without Misa. IF they take a page out of Ottawa’s playbook, they could upgrade on Leskovar as an OA and add two other OA’s. Mind you, that may get them far enough to call it a good season but if they are serious, they do that and add Misa. Use the OA spots on defence. Find a scoring OA D-Man to run the PP to replace Sharpe. Find another one or two that can put up some points while still decent in their own end. To me, that is their blueprint for next season. If they do that, they will be a powerhouse. The problem is those are deadline deals. They won’t be running away with it at the deadline but post-deadline they will be a handful that I am not sure anyone will be able to deal with.

 

[dirty12]

No. I think they will buy heavy because that is what it will take to get Misa and I feel Misa is primed for that move. Once they do that, they may as well go all the way.

I do feel that Missy may be able to compete without Misa. IF they take a page out of Ottawa’s playbook, they could upgrade on Leskovar as an OA and add two other OA’s. Mind you, that may get them far enough to call it a good season but if they are serious, they do that and add Misa. Use the OA spots on defence. Find a scoring OA D-Man to run the PP to replace Sharpe. Find another one or two that can put up some points while still decent in their own end. To me, that is their blueprint for next season. If they do that, they will be a powerhouse. The problem is those are deadline deals. They won’t be running away with it at the deadline but post-deadline they will be a handful that I am not sure anyone will be able to deal with.

Acquiring M.Misa plus OAs would drain the Steelheads. Misa and the development fee paid by the NHL team drafting him would cost Brampton something like; Ivankovic, ‘08-1st, 3-2nds and more picks.

 

[PuckLucker]

?

Mississauga Steelheads are relocating 10km down the road to Brampton next season

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

Mississauga Steelheads are relocating 10km down the road to Brampton next season

Technically "up the road" but all good...

 

[OMG67]

Acquiring M.Misa plus OAs would drain the Steelheads. Misa and the development fee paid by the NHL team drafting him would cost Brampton something like; Ivankovic, ‘08-1st, 3-2nds and more picks.

Yeah. That’s sort of what I had. I said earlier that it would be the 2024 1st, three 2nds, three 3rds and another key player. Not sure it would be Ivankovic but it would be someone that would hurt a bit. Maybe it is Leenders. It will come down to which goalie is not their starter. They will need to move one of them likely. No sense in keeping and suppressing both. That will be a near impossible ask of both goalies.

Int hat scenario, they likely keep Leskovar because it is defence they need anyway. They would then go out and get one scoring D-Man to play as a #1 and then another #3 type that is good defensively but can play a little PP if #1 is out. I’m not sure who the candidates are but that is sort of how I see them going.

Keep in mind, the teams that are serious about winning get drained now. IT is pretty much the only option. I suggested the same as you with Saginaw this year. Free trip to the Memorial Cup. Good team as is. Why dump everything into Beck and Donovan. Go get some complimentary players and maybe make a two year run. Seems like none ever do when they are on the edge of that cliff… except Ottawa of course. They haven’t learned what the term “all in” means yet.

 

[frontsfan67]

Acquiring M.Misa plus OAs would drain the Steelheads. Misa and the development fee paid by the NHL team drafting him would cost Brampton something like; Ivankovic, ‘08-1st, 3-2nds and more picks.

I don’t think they’ll trade either goalie next year- I think they’ll wait until the year after and maybe ship someone then.

However if misa is on the table for potentially not just next year but the year after too then they’d definitely have to do that.

Misa looked so good last year not sure why he seemingly hasn’t developed this year. This year I’d take porter martone over him lol and next year it may be the same.

 

[dirty12]

I don’t think they’ll trade either goalie next year- I think they’ll wait until the year after and maybe ship someone then.

However if misa is on the table for potentially not just next year but the year after too then they’d definitely have to do that.

Misa looked so good last year not sure why he seemingly hasn’t developed this year. This year I’d take porter martone over him lol and next year it may be the same.

Martone does not share offensive oppurtunites with 19-20 yr olds like Beck, Sapovaliv, Christopolous, Bloom,

 

[OMG67]

I don’t think they’ll trade either goalie next year- I think they’ll wait until the year after and maybe ship someone then.

However if misa is on the table for potentially not just next year but the year after too then they’d definitely have to do that.

Misa looked so good last year not sure why he seemingly hasn’t developed this year. This year I’d take porter martone over him lol and next year it may be the same.

If you are a team that is truly looking to contend and go all in, there is no way you keep those two goalies. ZERO. First, you are going to have an issue internally. Ivankovic is likely ready to be a starter and Leenders is a very capable starter. They are only one year apart in age. We’ve seen it before where you set yourself up in that situation and instead of selecting which one you want to trade, the other guy demands a trade because he isn’t getting the required ice time. You do not want to be in that situation.

The second reason is you cannot be all in and have a top asset sitting on your bench every game. You need to trade that asset for one that contributes every game.

It is possible that Mississauga/Brampton pulls an Ottawa 67’s and decides to only add two OA’s and let the chips fall where they fall. They can maintain competitiveness. Fine. I just dont’ think they will do it. I think they will make the push and if they do, it is likely they will need to use one of the goalies. I would keep Ivankovic and trade Leenders. Ivankovic has had the better numbers, is more highly touted and is one year younger so he’ll be around longer. He hasn’t played “backup games,” meaning he has played a lot of the top teams. He isn’t getting all the lessor lights in the league.

They also have a couple 2nd round pick ‘07 players That they could use but neither have been impactful 16 year olds so I am not sure what level of interest they would draw in a package.

 

[frontsfan67]

@dirty12 ill take martone over Christopolous for sure and maybe bloom too. Atleast scoring wise.

If you are a team that is truly looking to contend and go all in, there is no way you keep those two goalies. ZERO. First, you are going to have an issue internally. Ivankovic is likely ready to be a starter and Leenders is a very capable starter. They are only one year apart in age. We’ve seen it before where you set yourself up in that situation and instead of selecting which one you want to trade, the other guy demands a trade because he isn’t getting the required ice time. You do not want to be in that situation.

The second reason is you cannot be all in and have a top asset sitting on your bench every game. You need to trade that asset for one that contributes every game.

It is possible that Mississauga/Brampton pulls an Ottawa 67’s and decides to only add two OA’s and let the chips fall where they fall. They can maintain competitiveness. Fine. I just dont’ think they will do it. I think they will make the push and if they do, it is likely they will need to use one of the goalies. I would keep Ivankovic and trade Leenders. Ivankovic has had the better numbers, is more highly touted and is one year younger so he’ll be around longer. He hasn’t played “backup games,” meaning he has played a lot of the top teams. He isn’t getting all the lessor lights in the league.

They also have a couple 2nd round pick ‘07 players That they could use but neither have been impactful 16 year olds so I am not sure what level of interest they would draw in a package.

Look at the Everett silvertips 2017/2018 team. I think the steelheads could be like that team next year and the year after.

If they trade Leenders for example and ivankovic gets hurt and is out for the season in a championship type of season then they just screwed themselves. This is why atleast for next year I don’t see either getting traded. that would leave 17year old ivankovic to play 55+ games and all the playoff games. Might not work too well as he will be dealing with major fatigue going into the playoffs. Could lead to an early upset if not on top of his game.

Year after they could very well trade Leenders as he will be the best goalie in the league probably then- him or carter George and get lots of picks back when ivankovic is ready to take over as the 18 year old star he likely will be

 

[OMG67]

@dirty12 ill take martone over Christopolous for sure and maybe bloom too. Atleast scoring wise.

Look at the Everett silvertips 2017/2018 team. I think the steelheads could be like that team next year and the year after.

If they trade Leenders for example and ivankovic gets hurt and is out for the season in a championship type of season then they just screwed themselves. This is why atleast for next year I don’t see either getting traded. that would leave 17year old ivankovic to play 55+ games and all the playoff games. Might not work too well as he will be dealing with major fatigue going into the playoffs. Could lead to an early upset if not on top of his game.

Year after they could very well trade Leenders as he will be the best goalie in the league probably then- him or carter George and get lots of picks back when ivankovic is ready to take over as the 18 year old star he likely will be

It is extremely rare for a Contender to carry two bonafide starters. It is a recipe for disaster. You need to develop and play your starter. Platoon them and then get to the playoffs and name one over the other? That is asking for trouble. Trade one and go out and get a 19 year old veteran. If the Steelheads do what they should do, they won’t need to worry about the goaltending side.

 

[dirty12]

@dirty12 ill take martone over Christopolous for sure and maybe bloom too. Atleast scoring wise.

Look at the Everett silvertips 2017/2018 team. I think the steelheads could be like that team next year and the year after.

If they trade Leenders for example and ivankovic gets hurt and is out for the season in a championship type of season then they just screwed themselves. This is why atleast for next year I don’t see either getting traded. that would leave 17year old ivankovic to play 55+ games and all the playoff games. Might not work too well as he will be dealing with major fatigue going into the playoffs. Could lead to an early upset if not on top of his game.

Year after they could very well trade Leenders as he will be the best goalie in the league probably then- him or carter George and get lots of picks back when ivankovic is ready to take over as the 18 year old star he likely will be

Prior to the arrival of Loukus and Karmiris finding his way, Martone was worked like a rented mule. If in Saginaw, Martone would be used more like Misa.
Other than an OA D, the steelheads probably add little prior to the trade deadline. It’s very unlikely Ivankovic will be in a position to play 55+ games and playoffs even if Leenders is traded at some point.

 

[dirty12]

If you are a team that is truly looking to contend and go all in, there is no way you keep those two goalies. ZERO. First, you are going to have an issue internally. Ivankovic is likely ready to be a starter and Leenders is a very capable starter. They are only one year apart in age. We’ve seen it before where you set yourself up in that situation and instead of selecting which one you want to trade, the other guy demands a trade because he isn’t getting the required ice time. You do not want to be in that situation.

The second reason is you cannot be all in and have a top asset sitting on your bench every game. You need to trade that asset for one that contributes every game.

It is possible that Mississauga/Brampton pulls an Ottawa 67’s and decides to only add two OA’s and let the chips fall where they fall. They can maintain competitiveness. Fine. I just dont’ think they will do it. I think they will make the push and if they do, it is likely they will need to use one of the goalies. I would keep Ivankovic and trade Leenders. Ivankovic has had the better numbers, is more highly touted and is one year younger so he’ll be around longer. He hasn’t played “backup games,” meaning he has played a lot of the top teams. He isn’t getting all the lessor lights in the league.

They also have a couple 2nd round pick ‘07 players That they could use but neither have been impactful 16 year olds so I am not sure what level of interest they would draw in a package.

In the interview with the steelheads‘ owner after the announcement to move, ‘all-in’ did not at all seem to be in the plans. He spoke of the team being built by Richmond to be at or near the top for three seasons.

 

[OMG67]

In the interview with the steelheads‘ owner after the announcement to move, ‘all-in’ did not at all seem to be in the plans. He spoke of the team being built by Richmond to be at or near the top for three seasons.

So they are like the 67s. Not trying to win a championship. Only trying to be consistently good at the expense of never truly winning.

If that holds true, expect them to add two OA’s and call it a day. Let the chips fall where they may. Let’s hope for their sake that one or both of the goalies don’t get pissed off sitting too much.

 

[beastintheeast]

Could be the team to catch at the deadline if getting two of the best available OA D pre-season and powerhouse are two very different things.

Clouds of smoke in the brain? What does a 2005 born import have to do with OA D this coming pre-season?
Kingston will need two D more than anything else to compete at the top of the conference. That team will not have much need forward to start.
There will be good OA D available early to teams willing to give near mid-season value. All of McCoy, DeAngelis, VanVliet, Collins, Mathurin, Leblanc likely return for an OA season and cannot all be rostered by their current teams.

I am not sure you have an issue with my brain. As you can see, it was YOU that said getting the two best OA D. Nowhere did you mention getting a Euro D.

I would also suggest that with the one pick you have that Cooper will look for a goalie who can either assist or replace Vaccari as a starter.

 

[beastintheeast]

So they are like the 67s. Not trying to win a championship. Only trying to be consistently good at the expense of never truly winning.

If that holds true, expect them to add two OA’s and call it a day. Let the chips fall where they may. Let’s hope for their sake that one or both of the goalies don’t get pissed off sitting too much.

Brampton will go with both goalies, at least until the deadline. At that point, they may look to move one.

The other point that you fail to mention is that Brampton is going to have a lot of scouts at the games. with the lineup they have as well as being the top team in the OHL possibly. Therefore, as a player who is looking to get drafted, it is definitely a place they want to be.

Misa, as a 2nd-round pick and 5'10, is not likely to make the NHL, but playing in Brampton will gain a lot of experience and also bring in money and fans to the game. I do not see him being traded if they are going to be making a run.

As to Missa's play this year, he is ahead of his totals last year, so I am not sure about the issue.