Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[dirty12]

Kingston is going to have a good team this year, but depending on Oshawa Brampton and Hamilton, 4th place fighting for 3rd is not a bad place.

The question is going to be how the players adapt to Mann's system and how the young players develop.

The challenge is going to be finding a player to be the first-line center between Battaglia and Uronen.

Defence is going to be a concern, especially on the Right side.

Also goaltending should be good but you never know

There is not a clear favourite right now imo, you can add the colts and wolves to your list of questionable or wannabe contenders. Brantford/Hamilton has the most work to do, but have a silly amount of picks to possibly get it done.

 

[beastintheeast]

There is not a clear favourite right now imo, you can add the colts and wolves to your list of questionable or wannabe contenders. Brantford/Hamilton has the most work to do, but have a silly amount of picks to possibly get it done.

I agree that is why I think that this year the smart thing to do as a Front is to make this year a year to ingrain Mann's system and develop the team and players for 25/26

 

[dirty12]

I agree that is why I think that this year the smart thing to do as a Front is to make this year a year to ingrain Mann's system and develop the team and players for 25/26

They are committed; they have 3-1sts and rights to 3 imports in addition to a handful of others all born '05

 

[OMG67]

Ammenities are a plus, but not a significant factor for team sucess and recruitment.

The '67s were very good when they had a huge surplus of picks and Rossi as an import that may have been the best over all player in the league. With unspectacular imports and '05-1st, and the anomaly of having to wait an extra year for compensation of their '04 defect; the '67s are not so good.
Flint is supposedly among the best in terms of player ammenities and have a prime geographic location; yet cannot recruit as well as Windsor, Sarnia, and Guelph that have in common proximity to great markets.
Barrie can recruit despite a tight budget largely because Williamson is a tireless worker, and previously a superb coach in Hawerchuk.
North Bay has found success by integrating jr and rotational players with the leadership group. They don't need shrinks because they have teammates that are best friends and a coach with the ability to communicate to rely on.
North Bay plays rookies less than any team except London. There are no complaints heard when winning and seeing teammates drafted to the NHL.

Aside from age, there is not much difference between Kingston and Peterborough in terms of roster construction. No one is currently pointing towards the Petes' cycling ways as a negative.
Kingston could have its' third very competitive team in six seasons. This time there might not be a jauggernaut at the top of the east division. They are doing alright imo.

Guys like Williamson give the impression of stability because they have been in the league a long time and have had success. But, again, it is about more than that. It is about which Major Junior franchises operate close to the NHL level when it comes to player development and support. Only a handful of teams provide close to that level. Those handful of teams tend to be the teams that are better at recruiting, London being the crown jewel of the league.

It takes time and a strong financial investment surrounding reputable GM’s and Coaches if you want to be a strong recruiter. Or, you can run the team with satisfactory resources, plan for always being modestly competitive making the playoffs every year and reap out an easier profit but never really be a team that challenges for anything. That is what this league has mostly come to. Either you are a “have” team that gets more frequent opportunities, or you are a “have not” team that has to spend four years aligning resources in order to blow them all in one season and then start all over again.

 

[dirty12]

Guys like Williamson give the impression of stability because they have been in the league a long time and have had success. But, again, it is about more than that. It is about which Major Junior franchises operate close to the NHL level when it comes to player development and support. Only a handful of teams provide close to that level. Those handful of teams tend to be the teams that are better at recruiting, London being the crown jewel of the league.

It takes time and a strong financial investment surrounding reputable GM’s and Coaches if you want to be a strong recruiter. Or, you can run the team with satisfactory resources, plan for always being modestly competitive making the playoffs every year and reap out an easier profit but never really be a team that challenges for anything. That is what this league has mostly come to. Either you are a “have” team that gets more frequent opportunities, or you are a “have not” team that has to spend four years aligning resources in order to blow them all in one season and then start all over again.

so all but London and perhaps NB with their five conference final appearances in ten seasons are have not teams?

 

[frontsfan67]

The challenge is going to be finding a player to be the first-line center between Battaglia and Uronen.

According to many on here that are insiders- sounds like we got Cedrick Guindon from Owen Sound. All of Owen sound had a down year last year including Barlow the big gun. The year before Guindon had 69 points. I think 80 points from him shouldn’t be out of question. Same with Battaglia who I think is primed to be a 40/40 guy(but could have more goals playing with a pass first player like Guindon)

Uronen is a big question- boom or bust imo. Could be amazing but could just be mediocre. Who knows. Wasn’t enough games to really see how he was with you guys last year. However I believe right before he got injured and put out for the year he was starting to find his game so hopefully he builds off that and is a ppg player.

Defence is going to be a concern, especially on the Right side.

Completely agree. Defence as a whole will be if Pieniniemi doesn’t come over.

However they have enough picks to address this issue

Also goaltending should be good but you never know

“19 year olds league” and vaccari is now 19 and we got the memorial cup winning teams backup so I think it should be really solid barring injuries.

 

[OHL4Life]

According to many on here that are insiders- sounds like we got Cedrick Guindon from Owen Sound. All of Owen sound had a down year last year including Barlow the big gun. The year before Guindon had 69 points. I think 80 points from him shouldn’t be out of question. Same with Battaglia who I think is primed to be a 40/40 guy(but could have more goals playing with a pass first player like Guindon)

Uronen is a big question- boom or bust imo. Could be amazing but could just be mediocre. Who knows. Wasn’t enough games to really see how he was with you guys last year. However I believe right before he got injured and put out for the year he was starting to find his game so hopefully he builds off that and is a ppg player.

Completely agree. Defence as a whole will be if Pieniniemi doesn’t come over.

However they have enough picks to address this issue

“19 year olds league” and vaccari is now 19 and we got the memorial cup winning teams backup so I think it should be really solid barring injuries.

Even if Pieniniemi does come your missing an entire second pair.

 

[frontsfan67]

Even if Pieniniemi does come your missing an entire second pair.

I thought they’d put one of burns or pieniniemi on the left side of pairs 1+2 and roll the top 4 with more minutes then pick up a top (probably OA) d for the first pair right side and a decent top 4 d man on the right side of pair two.

Like last year when we had burns and Schmidt I don’t think they’d stack the deck and put their 2 best d men on the same line- also both are LHD according to EP

 

[OMG67]

so all but London and perhaps NB with their five conference final appearances in ten seasons are have not teams?

No. Teams that are consistent and contend on a more regular basis.

You are making more of this than it really is. There are a handful of teams that don’t have a chance unless they do a 4-6 year cycle of building future assets and then blow them all in one season. That’s the only way for them to win. They don’t have a strong enough reputation to nail down top players and often have to reach a little further back into the player pool to pick players that will report.

Then there is the middle teams that also have to do the same sort of thing but They don’t need to completely bottom out.

Then there are the top tier teams that are mostly consistent, don’t need to completely bottom out, they pick best available and don’t worry about players not reporting.

Then there is London in a league by themselves.

In fairness, this shift began in 2005. We’ve only seen 20 seasons of this shift. Some teams were able to adjust right away and take advantage and others were stuck in the past. For example, Ottawa with Brian Kilrea running the show were stuck int he past. He did immeasurable damage to the franchise operating as the GM between 2006 and 2015 as if it were still 1990. Teams like Windsor managed to do very well in the early years of that shift and they still do relatively well. Kitchener too. North Bay has done well.

Teams like Sarnia, Kingston, Mississauga, Sudbury, and Flint fall in the lower category. Some poor ownership issues have held them back quite a bit. They tend to be the teams that have had the most issues over the last 20 years.

Teams like Guelph, Windsor, Owen Sound, Peterborough, Erie, Ottawa (more recently), Hamilton/Brantford, Saginaw, Barrie, and Niagara (until recently) haven’t had significant reporting issues, they are respected in the OHL community and mostly have a lot of positives related to their organization. The caveat to that is right now Niagara sits in the lower tier but for a good portion of the last 20 years, they’ve done very well. Hopefully their owner figures it out. On the flip side, Ottawa is starting to nudge closer to that top tier. They need a couple more seasons before I am ready to put them forward. Notice that there are some teams in here that have won Championships but they did sort of bottom out and managed to take advantage of players like Connor McDavid to win. Maybe there is some fortune but they were able to get those key players to report.

Teams like Oshawa, Kitchener, North Bay, and SSM are teams that tend to not bottom out, stay competitive and have playoff success on a more regular basis. I doubt any of these teams will slip from their perch.

Then you have London. We don’t need to talk about them.

So the question is what those teams do or don’t do that makes the difference.

 

[beastintheeast]

According to many on here that are insiders- sounds like we got Cedrick Guindon from Owen Sound. All of Owen sound had a down year last year including Barlow the big gun. The year before Guindon had 69 points. I think 80 points from him shouldn’t be out of question. Same with Battaglia who I think is primed to be a 40/40 guy(but could have more goals playing with a pass first player like Guindon)

So, he will be an OA center, and depending on the pic ks you also get, it will be interesting. Who gets chopped to leave an opening for him?

Uronen is a big question- boom or bust imo. Could be amazing but could just be mediocre. Who knows. Wasn’t enough games to really see how he was with you guys last year. However I believe right before he got injured and put out for the year he was starting to find his game so hopefully he builds off that and is a ppg player.

Uronen should be a solid first line RW for you if you can find a center for the line

Completely agree. Defence as a whole will be if Pieniniemi doesn’t come over.

Even if he comes you atillhave a HUGE ISSUE ON DEFENCE. If he comes you only have 2 RHD Uens and Williamson. The question is what doyou have for 3rdl ine power both forward and defence

However they have enough picks to address this issue

But do you need rental players or do you want to build. It might be better to save the pics and fill holes with players that will be here next year.

“19 year olds league” and vaccari is now 19 and we got the memorial cup winning teams backup so I think it should be really solid barring injuries.

The key word is should be and just because he was the back up does not necessarily mean he was great although his stats look good.

It is going to be an interesting yer for sure.

 

[dirty12]

No. Teams that are consistent and contend on a more regular basis.

You are making more of this than it really is. There are a handful of teams that don’t have a chance unless they do a 4-6 year cycle of building future assets and then blow them all in one season. That’s the only way for them to win. They don’t have a strong enough reputation to nail down top players and often have to reach a little further back into the player pool to pick players that will report.

Then there is the middle teams that also have to do the same sort of thing but They don’t need to completely bottom out.

Then there are the top tier teams that are mostly consistent, don’t need to completely bottom out, they pick best available and don’t worry about players not reporting.

Then there is London in a league by themselves.

In fairness, this shift began in 2005. We’ve only seen 20 seasons of this shift. Some teams were able to adjust right away and take advantage and others were stuck in the past. For example, Ottawa with Brian Kilrea running the show were stuck int he past. He did immeasurable damage to the franchise operating as the GM between 2006 and 2015 as if it were still 1990. Teams like Windsor managed to do very well in the early years of that shift and they still do relatively well. Kitchener too. North Bay has done well.

Teams like Sarnia, Kingston, Mississauga, Sudbury, and Flint fall in the lower category. Some poor ownership issues have held them back quite a bit. They tend to be the teams that have had the most issues over the last 20 years.

Teams like Guelph, Windsor, Owen Sound, Peterborough, Erie, Ottawa (more recently), Hamilton/Brantford, Saginaw, Barrie, and Niagara (until recently) haven’t had significant reporting issues, they are respected in the OHL community and mostly have a lot of positives related to their organization. The caveat to that is right now Niagara sits in the lower tier but for a good portion of the last 20 years, they’ve done very well. Hopefully their owner figures it out. On the flip side, Ottawa is starting to nudge closer to that top tier. They need a couple more seasons before I am ready to put them forward. Notice that there are some teams in here that have won Championships but they did sort of bottom out and managed to take advantage of players like Connor McDavid to win. Maybe there is some fortune but they were able to get those key players to report.

Teams like Oshawa, Kitchener, North Bay, and SSM are teams that tend to not bottom out, stay competitive and have playoff success on a more regular basis. I doubt any of these teams will slip from their perch.

Then you have London. We don’t need to talk about them.

So the question is what those teams do or don’t do that makes the difference.

All except one team cycles to varying degrees, and 5-6 teams have experienced a period of instability. For the last dozen years or so, too many younger players and picks are moved out to support playoff runs not to cycle.
Coaches and managers move on to bigger things, or sometimes become stale. There is often an adjustment period that follows.

Hamilton schooled the league in the art of the cycle. Kingston has done well too imo; unfortunately for the Frontenacs,, they have been on the same cycle as the bulldogs.
Erie, SSM, and Peterborough bottomed out. Kitchener, Windsor, Ottawa, and Oshawa all hit a rough patches for 3-5 years. North Bay is risk adverse, so they should be able to avoid longer rebuilds.
Saginaw and Sarnia have recruited quite well of late.
Ottawa has regressed toward the mean. With the pick surplus used, and recent mediocre imports and ‘05-1st along with having to wait an extra year to be compensated for their ‘04 defect; the ‘67s were destined for a short stay in the middle.

 

[ScoutLife4]

This is Kingstons D right now to start the season:
Pienemmi Burns
Uens Mccgowan
Vellaris Williamson

That 2nd D pairing is not good enough and Kingston knows this.
Here’s what I think happens.
Frasca will be moved for about 5 picks.
They will flop those picks for an OA Dman.

OA Spots:
LaLonde
Guidon
Heyes (to start the season until they can get an OA Dman)

 

[frontsfan67]

OA Spots:
LaLonde
Guidon
Heyes (to start the season until they can get an OA Dman)

Makes perfect sense

Hopefully they can include heyes in a package for an OA d man. I’m sure someone will want him for the pk and their middle 6(on a lower tier team obviously)

 

[Petes1987]

All except one team cycles to varying degrees, and 5-6 teams have experienced a period of instability. For the last dozen years or so, too many younger players and picks are moved out to support playoff runs not to cycle.
Coaches and managers move on to bigger things, or sometimes become stale. There is often an adjustment period that follows.

Hamilton schooled the league in the art of the cycle. Kingston has done well too imo; unfortunately for the Frontenacs,, they have been on the same cycle as the bulldogs.
Erie, SSM, and Peterborough bottomed out. Kitchener, Windsor, Ottawa, and Oshawa all hit a rough patches for 3-5 years. North Bay is risk adverse, so they should be able to avoid longer rebuilds.
Saginaw and Sarnia have recruited quite well of late.
Ottawa has regressed toward the mean. With the pick surplus used, and recent mediocre imports and ‘05-1st along with having to wait an extra year to be compensated for their ‘04 defect; the ‘67s were destined for a short stay in the middle.

The Petes have done well with the cycle the last ten years. They have had contending teams in 2016-2017, 2019-2020 (season lost to Covid) and 2022-2023 (won the OHL Championship) The issue is in between the contending years when they are either not competitive or have a decent regular season but are out in the first round of the playoffs. Their plan is to build a team that is competitive and win a playoff series or two each year.

 

[beastintheeast]

This is Kingstons D right now to start the season:
Pienemmi Burns
Uens Mccgowan
Vellaris Williamson

That 2nd D pairing is not good enough and Kingston knows this.
Here’s what I think happens.
Frasca will be moved for about 5 picks.
They will flop those picks for an OA Dman.

OA Spots:
LaLonde
Guidon
Heyes (to start the season until they can get an OA Dman)

Why would you put your top LHD on the same line?

I think ou have to look at Pie as the top if he shows up and put him with Uens

Burns can work with Willamson.

I think you try to move Frasca for a RHD and picks

 

[frontsfan67]

Why would you put your top LHD on the same line?

That’s what I said haha but maybe it’s cause those 2 are the most reliable likely?

Gonna improve second pair regardless of who is on it.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Why would you put your top LHD on the same line?

I think ou have to look at Pie as the top if he shows up and put him with Uens

Burns can work with Willamson.

I think you try to move Frasca for a RHD and picks

Why would you not?
They will play half of the game.
You think Burns is gonna take a back seat to the new guy?
Burns is about to be the captain of the team.

 

[frontsfan67]

You think Burns is gonna take a back seat to the new guy?
Burns is about to be the captain of the team.

Good point. definitely think he has to be captain, Hopkins maybe would be the second guy but he is still a year away prob.
If they go 4 A’s I think Hopkins, Uens, Heyes, Guindon could be the guys to start?

Having trouble remembering who the A’s were last year I could be off but those all seem like they’d be locker room guys

 

[beastintheeast]

Why would you not?
They will play half of the game.
You think Burns is gonna take a back seat to the new guy?
Burns is about to be the captain of the team.

No but it makes no sense to put a player that has played LHD and the NHL has slotted as LHD and try to teach him a new trick,

The solution is the same one that many teams have: You have 1a 1b and play them roughly the same minutes.

If you put them both on the same line what do you have for a 2nd pairing?

Also, remember you probably have these 2 for one season, so you need to develop their replacements.

 

[OHL4Life]

No but it makes no sense to put a player that has played LHD and the NHL has slotted as LHD and try to teach him a new trick,

The solution is the same one that many teams have: You have 1a 1b and play them roughly the same minutes.

If you put them both on the same line what do you have for a 2nd pairing?

Also, remember you probably have these 2 for one season, so you need to develop their replacements.

do you not watch games where coaches make adjustments based on game play. If they need it, they will play together. If the don’t, they won’t. if the kid wants to play in the nhl and is as good as everyone thinks, playing his off side at the OHL will be a breeze.

 

[beastintheeast]

Just put of curiosity if when Frasca is traded if they do not get a center who do you see centering the 1st line

 

[frontsfan67]

Just put of curiosity if when Frasca is traded if they do not get a center who do you see centering the 1st line

Guindon which will be announced tomorrow. Just picks going back to OS

Hopkins probably centres second line.

Third not sure- maybe McNamara if he’s okay with playing third line

 

[ScoutLife4]

Just put of curiosity if when Frasca is traded if they do not get a center who do you see centering the 1st line

Guidon at 1C has to be the most obvious decision in the world no?
Frasca isn’t a 1C in the Ohl. His mom may think he is but he’s not.
This team is more then okay with Guidon Hopkins McNamara at C

As far as far going to 2nd pair if you split up Burns and Emil you don’t have a D pairing.
I believe the plan is to work Williamson into a 2nd pairing role and trade for an OA D.
If Williamson progresses as projected you have 2 potential solid D lines and a checking line / 3rd pairing with Uens and McGowan

 

[ScoutLife4]

Kingston may be kicking the tires on Kitcheners Matthew Andonovski to strengthen their D with the picks they get for Frasca.
Kitchener has to sell off.
Intresting to see where Rehkoph ends up took

 

[frontsfan67]

Kingston may be kicking the tires on Kitcheners Matthew Andonovski to strengthen their D with the picks they get for Frasca.
Kitchener has to sell off.
Intresting to see where Rehkoph ends up took

Would love that move if they could get him.

Worried about how with McCoy last year the Pete’s got a first rounder- I assume Kitchener would be trying for the same and maybe we wouldn’t be able to do that deal unless they settled for weir as a 17year old.

Ando is better as a 19 year old for sure but he probably wouldn’t be back as an OA like McCoy will be. maybe that works in the fronts favour regarding 16 year old rookies?