Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[ScoutLife4]

I think the Peterborough Petes were in the same category when Dick Todd was Coach and GM. In fact he had more success than Brian Kilrea and Bert Templeton had in the years that he was in charge of the Petes. His success was good drafting, developing players and his systems.

I'd put both Oshawa and Peterborough ahead of Ottawa if we are talking about successful OHL franchises in comparison to london.
I'm not sure any team will ever match what London has going.
You have 2 NHL players that basically devoted their life to building that OHL franchise.
I think the question is does it continue to be as successful once they are gone?

Not sure what you mean? What would they want to do?

I don't think the OHL will make any adjustments that would hurt London which is their piggy bank is what i'm saying.

 

[beastintheeast]

The league operated much different in the prime Kilrea/Templeton years. We didn’t see massive trades nearly as often. Teams weren’t loading up at the deadline. The landscape of the league has changed dramatically. We now have 20 teams instead of only 15. There wasn’t a massive deviation from the mean with respect to attendance like there is now. Revenues were relatively even by comparison. There are more viable options for players than there ever has been.

Virtually nothing is truly the same as it was. You cannot draw historical comparisons. Teams have to operate in the now.

The best way to be a great organization is to invest heavily in the best people supporting your organization. Hire the best coaches and hockey people you can find. Like any other business, you need to invest in it in the early stages and let it reap the rewards as it matures. Too many new’ish owners operate within a budget that doesn’t allow them to lose money. They need to at least break even. As most businesses do, they look at areas where they can cut costs. ALOT of times it is the player development side.

These teams need long term stability. The teams with the best results are usually the teams with the best long term stability and they are supported by owners that understand you need to reinvest in your organization to maintain that stability.

I agree that times have changed, but it still stands that the reason the knights are so good every year is that they have the system and the right people. London has hired all the best people, and it keeps them happy.

Killer, Bert, and Todd also did this. Yes, times have changed, and a team with the skill will make a lot of trades. However, the issue with Kingston is that they make trades that kill the franchise for a few years and do not go anywhere.

Owners are looking to make money and or limit losses. In the case of Kingston, they need to show the fans that they can build a team that is going to be competitive every year. It does not have to win cups. It just has to win games and not get into the 3-year cycle. The cycle has cost them a lot of season ticket holders in the past. It also causes fans to spend the two years that they are rebuilding looking for different places to spend their money. This is called long-term stability, and that is what Kingston has lacked in its front office and on the ice. Cooper is getting there, but he needs a long-term coach that he can count on, as well as assistants that understand the system and can take over if the coach gets an NHL offer.

I think the Peterborough Petes were in the same category when Dick Todd was Coach and GM. In fact he had more success than Brian Kilrea and Bert Templeton had in the years that he was in charge of the Petes. His success was good drafting, developing players and his systems.

Fully agree was not totally sure.

 

[OMG67]

I agree that times have changed, but it still stands that the reason the knights are so good every year is that they have the system and the right people. London has hired all the best people, and it keeps them happy.

Killer, Bert, and Todd also did this. Yes, times have changed, and a team with the skill will make a lot of trades. However, the issue with Kingston is that they make trades that kill the franchise for a few years and do not go anywhere.

Owners are looking to make money and or limit losses. In the case of Kingston, they need to show the fans that they can build a team that is going to be competitive every year. It does not have to win cups. It just has to win games and not get into the 3-year cycle. The cycle has cost them a lot of season ticket holders in the past. It also causes fans to spend the two years that they are rebuilding looking for different places to spend their money. This is called long-term stability, and that is what Kingston has lacked in its front office and on the ice. Cooper is getting there, but he needs a long-term coach that he can count on, as well as assistants that understand the system and can take over if the coach gets an NHL offer.



Fully agree was not totally sure.

Sorry, Beast but I disagree. I think the perspective is much difference specifically because times have changed. Previously, you could get away with a strong coaching staff and the rest didn’t really have much of an impact. Prior to 1999, Brian Kilrea was the Head Coach and GM. Bert was basically a part time assistant coach. They had a Trainer (Keech) and an equipment guy. That was pretty much the extent of the support team (other than the Doctors and Therapists).

As things have advanced, the gap between the strong and weak organizations has widened specifically because of the support services teams have added not to mention the quality difference between those support services. Some will say all teams have a strength and Conditioning coach or part time consultant. But, not all Strength and Conditioning service providers are equal. Some teams may be in geographical areas where access to the highest quality service providers isn’t available. Some teams can’t afford the best available and aren’t willing to make that investment.

You need to be very careful pulling out past examples because they aren’t relevant. You really need to try to use current examples to make your points. Yes, London employs quality professionals in all areas of player development. They have a really strong and stable organization with very little meaningful turnover. But, how does that relate to other organizations? I don’t have those answers other than the top level guys like Coach turnover. What does Kingston do behind the scenes? Who are they employing for player development other than the obvious coaches? What are other teams doing? Is there a significant variance? These are the questions we really need answers to so we can have a wholistic view of why certain teams are not as successful or as desired as a location.

No one can tell me that Kingston shouldn’t be a desired location. Great city. Large enough to have access to all major amenities and services. Maybe there are aspects of geography that may be a challenge but other than that, the only true reason to not report to Kingston is stability and organizational support services. At least that is my perspective. Just because there is a great head coach in play doesn’t mean that everything else behind that person will fall in place.

 

[ScoutLife4]

I agree that times have changed, but it still stands that the reason the knights are so good every year is that they have the system and the right people. London has hired all the best people, and it keeps them happy.

Killer, Bert, and Todd also did this. Yes, times have changed, and a team with the skill will make a lot of trades. However, the issue with Kingston is that they make trades that kill the franchise for a few years and do not go anywhere.

Owners are looking to make money and or limit losses. In the case of Kingston, they need to show the fans that they can build a team that is going to be competitive every year. It does not have to win cups. It just has to win games and not get into the 3-year cycle. The cycle has cost them a lot of season ticket holders in the past. It also causes fans to spend the two years that they are rebuilding looking for different places to spend their money. This is called long-term stability, and that is what Kingston has lacked in its front office and on the ice. Cooper is getting there, but he needs a long-term coach that he can count on, as well as assistants that understand the system and can take over if the coach gets an NHL offer.



Fully agree was not totally sure.

Last season was Kingston's 6th highest season ever for attendance and pre-covid numbers aren't really apples to apples as we all know attendance was greatly affected in Hockey.
In a season the fanbase turned on their head coach in the first month or 2 and were very bad.
You make it sound like they have lost thousands of season ticket holders when they have not.
Kingston is literally making moves trying to please their base and i think Cooper has finally started to figure out the OHL.
Sometime you need to remove the barber pole coloured glasses and chime in with facts.
Attendance is trending in the right direction.
Ottawa's population is 7x Kingstons and the Attendance difference is only less then 1,000 per game.
All i gather from reading your post is how bad the 67s fan base is.

The Springers run Kingston like all their businesses.
Its not a hobby to them its a business.
The hockey OPS is very lean.

 

[OMG67]

Last season was Kingston's 6th highest season ever for attendance and pre-covid numbers aren't really apples to apples as we all know attendance was greatly affected in Hockey.
In a season the fanbase turned on their head coach in the first month or 2 and were very bad.
You make it sound like they have lost thousands of season ticket holders when they have not.
Kingston is literally making moves trying to please their base and i think Cooper has finally started to figure out the OHL.
Sometime you need to remove the barber pole coloured glasses and chime in with facts.
Attendance is trending in the right direction.
Ottawa's population is 7x Kingstons and the Attendance difference is only less then 1,000 per game.
All i gather from reading your post is how bad the 67s fan base is.
View attachment 898768

The Springers run Kingston like all their businesses.
Its not a hobby to them its a business.
The hockey OPS is very lean.

I think that may be one of the issues, the Springers run it as a business. Or, I should say, should they be “investing” more into their business in order to elevate it? You 100% want the owners to run it as a business but the risk associated to that is they may be more in a situation where controlling costs is more important than increasing sales. If you want to increase sales, you have to elevate the offering. Elevating the offering requires additional investment. You can increase the offering more organically at a slower pace and at a lessor cost but the pace has increased across the board in the OHL. Teams that are barely breaking even are having more difficulties maintaining their current level of operations let alone increase it.

I think that is an issue for many teams that are struggling to maintain current operations.

Ticket sales is only one revenue stream. Another is local sponsorship. Some teams get the naming rights for their building. Some don’t. Some have a very active and engaged business community that invest in their local team and other communities don’t. Imagine the difference between Mississauga/Brampton for in building sponsorship vs a team like Windsor. Teams that can reach their local business community in a positive way can generate significant additional revenue. Investing in sales and marketing teams can help lead to those opportunities.

There is so much more than simply who is your GM and who is behind your bench. Is the Springer family the right type of owner to truly create the ability to compete at the higher levels? From what I know, it isn’t likely, at least not currently.

 

[ScoutLife4]

I think that may be one of the issues, the Springers run it as a business. Or, I should say, should they be “investing” more into their business in order to elevate it? You 100% want the owners to run it as a business but the risk associated to that is they may be more in a situation where controlling costs is more important than increasing sales. If you want to increase sales, you have to elevate the offering. Elevating the offering requires additional investment. You can increase the offering more organically at a slower pace and at a lessor cost but the pace has increased across the board in the OHL. Teams that are barely breaking even are having more difficulties maintaining their current level of operations let alone increase it.

I think that is an issue for many teams that are struggling to maintain current operations.

Ticket sales is only one revenue stream. Another is local sponsorship. Some teams get the naming rights for their building. Some don’t. Some have a very active and engaged business community that invest in their local team and other communities don’t. Imagine the difference between Mississauga/Brampton for in building sponsorship vs a team like Windsor. Teams that can reach their local business community in a positive way can generate significant additional revenue. Investing in sales and marketing teams can help lead to those opportunities.

There is so much more than simply who is your GM and who is behind your bench. Is the Springer family the right type of owner to truly create the ability to compete at the higher levels? From what I know, it isn’t likely, at least not currently.

How would you invest more into the Fronts to grow the business?
Who's to say its not one of the more profitable operations in the league already?
They are getting 3,300 out on a VERY LEAN payroll with tons of sponsorships.

I'm sure the Springers have a very lucrative arena lease with all the business they do with the city on the real estate side.

Ya'll need to remember there was ALOT of talk about relocation in 1996-97 until he swooped in and bought this team to keep it in Kingston.
Easy to bitch and moan about him as an owner but if it wasn't for him this team would likely be long gone.
Could they do more to market the team? Absolutely but at what cost? Lets say they increase their marketing budget by $100,000 and it sells 1000 more tickets total they likely have a negative return on investment by about 60K.

 

[frontsfan67]

I'd put both Oshawa and Peterborough ahead of Ottawa if we are talking about successful OHL franchises in comparison to london.
I'm not sure any team will ever match what London has going.
You have 2 NHL players that basically devoted their life to building that OHL franchise.
I think the question is does it continue to be as successful once they are gone?

When they’re gone they’ll still have the fans I think but not as much team success. Look at Patrick Roy with Quebec City

I don't think the OHL will make any adjustments that would hurt London which is their piggy bank is what i'm saying.

100% if they had to choose between a small market and unsuccessful team like Kingston or a big market- successful team like London I think we all know the obvious choice and that’s coming from a fan who isn’t big on London and obviously loves the fronts.

 

[zaluty]

Just renewed my season ticket today. Summer is going fast and training camp not far away. My dark horse candidate to at least push for a position is Andre Mondoux who I thought looked good last year in camp. Any more word on where Frasca may end up?

 

[frontsfan67]

Just renewed my season ticket today. Summer is going fast and training camp not far away. My dark horse candidate to at least push for a position is Andre Mondoux who I thought looked good last year in camp. Any more word on where Frasca may end up?

I remember him. think it’ll be him or velliaris in the 3rd LHD spot behind burns and (hopefully) pieniniemi

07 so same age as velliaris- fairly similar stats. And both are big left handed d’s

 

[Section5Petes]

Any more word on where Frasca may end up?

Hopefully the Petes lol

 

[ottsabrefan]

Springer has owned the team for over 25 years and the team has never even made it to the finals. It's not that fans don't understand the 3 year cycle, it's that Springer runs the team on the cheap and has historically made many poor decisions, so they don't even get that great year every 3 years (like say Hamilton or oshawa have). Many true fans have left over the years as a result.

Also, I have no idea how those attendance numbers are so high from the last few years as the arena is largely empty for most games.

Given that Kingston is a such a great hockey town and used to be a great OHL town, I hardly consider Springer saving the Fronts. I'm certain they would have had a new team and a better owner in no time had he ever not bought them or decided to sell them.

 

[frontsfan67]

Off topic but Emil Pieniniemi got 2 goals and an assist vs Canada white last night. A penalty which sennecke scored on too but let’s stick with positives

Would be real nice if he came over to the ohl like hemming is for barrie. hemming also had a primary assist on both of Emil’s goals.

It’s August now and he’s in Plymouth. get him signed right after this tournament cooper.

Also any idea how to check if burns played? He didn’t register a point so not sure how to check

 

[OMG67]

How would you invest more into the Fronts to grow the business?
Who's to say its not one of the more profitable operations in the league already?
They are getting 3,300 out on a VERY LEAN payroll with tons of sponsorships.

I'm sure the Springers have a very lucrative arena lease with all the business they do with the city on the real estate side.

Ya'll need to remember there was ALOT of talk about relocation in 1996-97 until he swooped in and bought this team to keep it in Kingston.
Easy to bitch and moan about him as an owner but if it wasn't for him this team would likely be long gone.
Could they do more to market the team? Absolutely but at what cost? Lets say they increase their marketing budget by $100,000 and it sells 1000 more tickets total they likely have a negative return on investment by about 60K.

You are missing the point. When you take a look at some of the more “respected” franchises, they spend a lot more coin on player development. If you want the elite players that are tougher to sign or maybe nudge a couple NCAA bound players toward your franchise, they don’t care how much the owner makes. They care about their own personal development. Instead of bringing in an inexperienced Kory Cooper as the GM and allow him to make mistakes and learn on the job, maybe use some of the profits and hire a more experienced guy that likely can delivery better results out of the gate. Then that more experienced guy surrounds the team with a higher level of development staff that creates a buffer between what they are doing vs the average team. Prospects start to look at the franchise differently.

That is all I am saying. Cutting costs in an effort to profit more while maintaining a below average results team isn’t a measurement for success and that shows in what players are willing to join the team.

I personally don’t give credit to anyone “saving a franchise.” It happens often enough. They don’t typically do it out of the kindness of their heart. They see a business opportunity at a discount price.

Regarding Ottawa as a successful franchise, people need to keep in mind that they play behind three other pro franchises that capture the majority of the Local community sponsorship and sports entertainment dollars. They are third on the priority pecking order with their own ownership! They also have another Major Junior Franchise 15 minutes away in Gatineau. I think if you want to be more fair about comparisons, I think you need to compare the 67’s situation with Mississauga, st. Mike’s, Brampton and maybe Hamilton. Teams like Kingston, Windsor, London, Oshawa, and Niagara all have access to condensed high population bases where they are the top dog in the Sports landscape with relatively little competition.

 

[dirty12]

You are missing the point. When you take a look at some of the more “respected” franchises, they spend a lot more coin on player development. If you want the elite players that are tougher to sign or maybe nudge a couple NCAA bound players toward your franchise, they don’t care how much the owner makes. They care about their own personal development. Instead of bringing in an inexperienced Kory Cooper as the GM and allow him to make mistakes and learn on the job, maybe use some of the profits and hire a more experienced guy that likely can delivery better results out of the gate. Then that more experienced guy surrounds the team with a higher level of development staff that creates a buffer between what they are doing vs the average team. Prospects start to look at the franchise differently.

That is all I am saying. Cutting costs in an effort to profit more while maintaining a below average results team isn’t a measurement for success and that shows in what players are willing to join the team.

I personally don’t give credit to anyone “saving a franchise.” It happens often enough. They don’t typically do it out of the kindness of their heart. They see a business opportunity at a discount price.

Regarding Ottawa as a successful franchise, people need to keep in mind that they play behind three other pro franchises that capture the majority of the Local community sponsorship and sports entertainment dollars. They are third on the priority pecking order with their own ownership! They also have another Major Junior Franchise 15 minutes away in Gatineau. I think if you want to be more fair about comparisons, I think you need to compare the 67’s situation with Mississauga, st. Mike’s, Brampton and maybe Hamilton. Teams like Kingston, Windsor, London, Oshawa, and Niagara all have access to condensed high population bases where they are the top dog in the Sports landscape with relatively little competition.

I am not sure it’s accurate to call Gilmour and McFarland twice and Mann as coach cost cutting hires. It’s fair to say Caputti was the wrong hire, but current GM just might build a contender in three years; that’s ok. A ‘failed’ run three years ago has more to do with MacTavish and Xhekaj choosing Hamilton than Kingston and Barrie failing imo.

 

[frontsfan67]

imagine if Owen sound had our population hahaha they’d get 10-15k a game. I know people say London fans are the best but that’s not the truth they just have the most. That Owen sound fan base is dedicated as hell and always respectful when visiting other barns

 

[ottsabrefan]

I am not sure it’s accurate to call Gilmour and McFarland twice and Mann as coach cost cutting hires. It’s fair to say Caputti was the wrong hire, but current GM just might build a contender in three years; that’s ok. A ‘failed’ run three years ago has more to do with MacTavish and Xhekaj choosing Hamilton than Kingston and Barrie failing imo.

Mavety...

 

[dirty12]

Mavety...

Springer and Mavety at same time?

 

[ottsabrefan]

Springer and Mavety at same time?

7 seasons (1 winning)

I also found this interesting link from one of the former play by play guys (a bit old but gives outsiders and newer fans some context on why the fans left)

Haters Gonna Hate

Tragically Run Way. That was my favourite ‘gem’ gleaned from all the feedback I received regarding my first blog about the wreck of the Kingston Frontenacs. I wish I had thought of it. …

ktownsports.blog

It also reminded me of when they actually had good coaches, they canned them (Hilton, Cassidy), and how they didn't win a playoff series in 17 YEARS (forget that every 3 years as Beast was talking about).

 

[OMG67]

7 seasons (1 winning)

I also found this interesting link from one of the former play by play guys (a bit old but gives outsiders and newer fans some context on why the fans left)

Haters Gonna Hate

Tragically Run Way. That was my favourite ‘gem’ gleaned from all the feedback I received regarding my first blog about the wreck of the Kingston Frontenacs. I wish I had thought of it. …

ktownsports.blog

It also reminded me of when they actually had good coaches, they canned them (Hilton, Cassidy), and how they didn't win a playoff series in 17 YEARS (forget that every 3 years as Beast was talking about).

This is what I am talking about. Run a franchise on a shoestring budget and you get shoestring budget results.

My initial point at the beginning of this was ”stability” coupled with sustained success is what tends to attract the better players. You can’t do that over night because you can’t suggest any team has been stable if only looking at the last three years. It takes a decade to earn that.

If you want stability and consistent success, you need to invest in your player development. It isn’t JUST about who your Head Coach is. It goes much deeper than that.

 

[zaluty]

Mark was always a pain in the side of the Frontenacs/Canadians/Raiders but has been proven right a very high percentage of times but the funniest story about Mark was the one time he went on a rant about when Kingston drafted Ethan Werek who said he wasn't going to report. During his rant he said if Werek ever showed up he would dress in a chicken suit, I believe, and stand on the corner of Princess and Division St, a main intersection, Well Werek did show up the following year and Mark true to his word and with Werek beside him stood at the intersection wearing the suit.

 

[frontsfan67]

Mark was always a pain in the side of the Frontenacs/Canadians/Raiders but has been proven right a very high percentage of times but the funniest story about Mark was the one time he went on a rant about when Kingston drafted Ethan Werek who said he wasn't going to report. During his rant he said if Werek ever showed up he would dress in a chicken suit, I believe, and stand on the corner of Princess and Division St, a main intersection, Well Werek did show up the following year and Mark true to his word and with Werek beside him stood at the intersection wearing the suit.

That’ll be beast when pieniniemi hopefully reports

 

[beastintheeast]

This is what I am talking about. Run a franchise on a shoestring budget and you get shoestring budget results.

My initial point at the beginning of this was ”stability” coupled with sustained success is what tends to attract the better players. You can’t do that over night because you can’t suggest any team has been stable if only looking at the last three years. It takes a decade to earn that.

If you want stability and consistent success, you need to invest in your player development. It isn’t JUST about who your Head Coach is. It goes much deeper than that.

When I look at Ottawa and stability, I am not talking about the dressing room, as back then, all teams had the same setup. What I am talking about is the team's ability to draft and develop players who became names in the NHL or went on to have great careers off the ice.

Yes I agree times have changed and owners need to spend more money I cringe to think of how Ear,l would have handled things these days.

Kingston had a huge issue with the coaching and GM setup. In the 90s, they had Mav, who was really behind the times. Then they graduated to Gilmour, who was only interested in impressing the Laffs so that he could get a job.

I agree that Cooper is learning and doing a good job. My point is, though, that the Base has aged. The fans that you counted on as die-hard are no longer in great numbers.

Also, remember that attendance is not just the buts in the seats but also the number of tickets that have been comped or given to sponsors.

In order to attract the fan base, you need to make it a night out. That doesn't just include the game but also the off-ice activities. Engaging the fans in these activities is a key part of making their experience memorable and enjoyable.

Ialso agree the knights are the only game in town but more important they are the only game in town that is competitive every year with future NHL stars.

 

[OMG67]

When I look at Ottawa and stability, I am not talking about the dressing room, as back then, all teams had the same setup. What I am talking about is the team's ability to draft and develop players who became names in the NHL or went on to have great careers off the ice.

Yes I agree times have changed and owners need to spend more money I cringe to think of how Ear,l would have handled things these days.

Kingston had a huge issue with the coaching and GM setup. In the 90s, they had Mav, who was really behind the times. Then they graduated to Gilmour, who was only interested in impressing the Laffs so that he could get a job.

I agree that Cooper is learning and doing a good job. My point is, though, that the Base has aged. The fans that you counted on as die-hard are no longer in great numbers.

Also, remember that attendance is not just the buts in the seats but also the number of tickets that have been comped or given to sponsors.

In order to attract the fan base, you need to make it a night out. That doesn't just include the game but also the off-ice activities. Engaging the fans in these activities is a key part of making their experience memorable and enjoyable.

Ialso agree the knights are the only game in town but more important they are the only game in town that is competitive every year with future NHL stars.

Teams generally draft players they can get commitments from. When weaker teams reach back further into the player pool to grab a player they know will report, especially in the first round, they are less likely to nail down an NHL prospect.

It is not about the dressing room setup. It is about what Professional Services you add to your player development and how good are those professional services? How does analytics and technology enter into the training and development? Who runs that? How much experience do they have? Do they do the same work with Professional teams and/or other high level athletes? What about Sport Science? Sure, teams have trainers and medical staff but how good are the nutritionists at tailoring diets to specific bodies? How are they tracking strength and conditioning? How do they relay that information to the coaching staff and how does the coaching staff utilize that information? What about mental preparedness? Does the team have sport psychologists that are continually engaged with players to ensure they are able to cope with the stress of being a high level student athlete? How do they help individual players prepare for games, practise, training etc? What sort of focused training do the players have access to? How often does the team bring in high level consultant trainers for very specific skills development or outside the box skills development? Maybe it is about simply keeping things fresh so the kids are more engaged and aren’t just running through the motions.

There are a bunch of little things as well. What does their gym facility look like? Can the players work out and relax in the same facility? Do they have a players lounge in the same facility? What food is available for them during training and when?

What does the team do for the players to ensure they maximize their potential? It is way more than just X’s and O’s on a dry erase board and A coach that can teach a repeatable system that allows a team to be able to strategically win games.

How often do teams do full team functions like team dinners or social activities that the team pays for?

There are so many ways teams can flex muscle if they have the resources and the teams that tend to have the resources are the teams that are more successful because they win more consistently and cultivate a stronger fanbase.

 

[dirty12]

Teams generally draft players they can get commitments from. When weaker teams reach back further into the player pool to grab a player they know will report, especially in the first round, they are less likely to nail down an NHL prospect.

It is not about the dressing room setup. It is about what Professional Services you add to your player development and how good are those professional services? How does analytics and technology enter into the training and development? Who runs that? How much experience do they have? Do they do the same work with Professional teams and/or other high level athletes? What about Sport Science? Sure, teams have trainers and medical staff but how good are the nutritionists at tailoring diets to specific bodies? How are they tracking strength and conditioning? How do they relay that information to the coaching staff and how does the coaching staff utilize that information? What about mental preparedness? Does the team have sport psychologists that are continually engaged with players to ensure they are able to cope with the stress of being a high level student athlete? How do they help individual players prepare for games, practise, training etc? What sort of focused training do the players have access to? How often does the team bring in high level consultant trainers for very specific skills development or outside the box skills development? Maybe it is about simply keeping things fresh so the kids are more engaged and aren’t just running through the motions.

There are a bunch of little things as well. What does their gym facility look like? Can the players work out and relax in the same facility? Do they have a players lounge in the same facility? What food is available for them during training and when?

What does the team do for the players to ensure they maximize their potential? It is way more than just X’s and O’s on a dry erase board and A coach that can teach a repeatable system that allows a team to be able to strategically win games.

How often do teams do full team functions like team dinners or social activities that the team pays for?

There are so many ways teams can flex muscle if they have the resources and the teams that tend to have the resources are the teams that are more successful because they win more consistently and cultivate a stronger fanbase.

Ammenities are a plus, but not a significant factor for team sucess and recruitment.

The '67s were very good when they had a huge surplus of picks and Rossi as an import that may have been the best over all player in the league. With unspectacular imports and '05-1st, and the anomaly of having to wait an extra year for compensation of their '04 defect; the '67s are not so good.
Flint is supposedly among the best in terms of player ammenities and have a prime geographic location; yet cannot recruit as well as Windsor, Sarnia, and Guelph that have in common proximity to great markets.
Barrie can recruit despite a tight budget largely because Williamson is a tireless worker, and previously a superb coach in Hawerchuk.
North Bay has found success by integrating jr and rotational players with the leadership group. They don't need shrinks because they have teammates that are best friends and a coach with the ability to communicate to rely on.
North Bay plays rookies less than any team except London. There are no complaints heard when winning and seeing teammates drafted to the NHL.

Aside from age, there is not much difference between Kingston and Peterborough in terms of roster construction. No one is currently pointing towards the Petes' cycling ways as a negative.
Kingston could have its' third very competitive team in six seasons. This time there might not be a jauggernaut at the top of the east division. They are doing alright imo.

 

[beastintheeast]

Ammenities are a plus, but not a significant factor for team sucess and recruitment.

The '67s were very good when they had a huge surplus of picks and Rossi as an import that may have been the best over all player in the league. With unspectacular imports and '05-1st, and the anomaly of having to wait an extra year for compensation of their '04 defect; the '67s are not so good.
Flint is supposedly among the best in terms of player ammenities and have a prime geographic location; yet cannot recruit as well as Windsor, Sarnia, and Guelph that have in common proximity to great markets.
Barrie can recruit despite a tight budget largely because Williamson is a tireless worker, and previously a superb coach in Hawerchuk.
North Bay has found success by integrating jr and rotational players with the leadership group. They don't need shrinks because they have teammates that are best friends and a coach with the ability to communicate to rely on.
North Bay plays rookies less than any team except London. There are no complaints heard when winning and seeing teammates drafted to the NHL.

Aside from age, there is not much difference between Kingston and Peterborough in terms of roster construction. No one is currently pointing towards the Petes' cycling ways as a negative.
Kingston could have its' third very competitive team in six seasons. This time there might not be a jauggernaut at the top of the east division. They are doing alright imo.

Kingston is going to have a good team this year, but depending on Oshawa Brampton and Hamilton, 4th place fighting for 3rd is not a bad place.

The question is going to be how the players adapt to Mann's system and how the young players develop.

The challenge is going to be finding a player to be the first-line center between Battaglia and Uronen.

Defence is going to be a concern, especially on the Right side.

Also goaltending should be good but you never know