Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 3)

[leafs4life94]

Dominated in the 3rd rd.
Is that all it’s been 16 years? Seems like much more

Springer bought the team in 1998 so 26 years and they've had one conference final appearance (17-18) and just three other second round appearances (15-16, 16-17, 21-22).

I knew it was bad but I don't think I realized it was Springer's 18th year owning the team when the finally won a round. The worst part is - in those 17 years, they won a total of 13 playoff games. Including a blown 3-0 lead in 13-14.

No wonder there's never any local hype for this team...

 

[dirty12]

Their deadbeat owner will ruin it.
He will trade the top players to London or other teams that will cover school packages or send him cash.

Dickinison refusing to report was a big short term set back. The only (eventual) top player traded was Fimis.
Now that DD has an agent with good players willing to work with him, all the other agents that are wannabe owners/GMs will have a hard time making things difficult for the IceDogs.

 

[frontsfan67]

No wonder there's never any local hype for this team...

They also refuse to market players. Bennett was the projected #1 pick or in the mix the whole year (yes he dropped to 4th) but they didn’t even market him well, and then wright was an exceptional status player (who also dropped to 4th) after 90% of the season being #1 on everyone’s board. They didn’t market him as well. They’d rather market a mediocre team rather than an exceptional status player- one they’ll never have again and a guy who was supposed to go #1.

also don’t even get me started with marketing to the younger generation and university/college students. 90% of the reason why don’t get fans is marketing and 10% team success. People will literally show up just to watch one player- the casuals. And Kingston has a LOT of casual fans.

 

[dirty12]

They also refuse to market players. Bennett was the projected #1 pick or in the mix the whole year (yes he dropped to 4th) but they didn’t even market him well, and then wright was an exceptional status player (who also dropped to 4th) after 90% of the season being #1 on everyone’s board. They didn’t market him as well. They’d rather market a mediocre team rather than an exceptional status player- one they’ll never have again and a guy who was supposed to go #1.

also don’t even get me started with marketing to the younger generation and university/college students. 90% of the reason why don’t get fans is marketing and 10% team success. People will literally show up just to watch one player- the casuals. And Kingston has a LOT of casual fans.

I was in Kingston when Villardi & Day, and Pu & Jones were acquired. There was no excitement or even conversation created. Their first games drew ~3800.

 

[frontsfan67]

I was in Kingston when Villardi & Day, and Pu & Jones were acquired. There was no excitement or even conversation created. Their first games drew ~3800.

Yes that’s the best year for attendance I can remember. Pretty sure they averaged like 3700 or 3800 for the season that year.

Out of 5600. About 68%. So even when they are one of the top teams they still don’t get people out because they don’t market it. Pretty sure that was the year they went all the way to the east finals and then Jeremy helvig shit the bed with all the helvig chants

 

[dirty12]

Yes that’s the best year for attendance I can remember. Pretty sure they averaged like 3700 or 3800 for the season that year.

Out of 5600. About 68%. So even when they are one of the top teams they still don’t get people out because they don’t market it. Pretty sure that was the year they went all the way to the east finals and then Jeremy helvig shit the bed with all the helvig chants

They did reach at least 4200-4400 for a stretch that year, but attendance dropped just as quick after a couple of losses and Day injured (vs Hamilton in one of those?).

The Queens - RMC game was packed, fire codes may have been broken. It was a wild atmosphere. It was as entertaining as a Finland-Sweden Olympic game imo.

Helvig was exposed by NB a month maybe more before the playoffs. They shot at his blocker and right pad from everywhere including outside the blue line, then raced the D to that board side hash marks knowing Helvig could not or would not kill the play. The next visit by Hamilton, they did the exact same thing just better; must have taken near 50 shots. The book on Helvig was out.

 

[leafs4life94]

If Kingston marketed to students they'd easily be able to fill up the rink but there's a lot of the old guard that don't like the rowdiness that comes with students, plus there's the long-standing battle between locals and students so I guarantee there'd be complaints about why they only market to students.

 

[beastintheeast]

If Kingston marketed to students they'd easily be able to fill up the rink but there's a lot of the old guard that don't like the rowdiness that comes with students, plus there's the long-standing battle between locals and students so I guarantee there'd be complaints about why they only market to students.

The marketing to students hype has been around since the team started almost. The challenge is that students are not gong to spendhte money for tickets.

Beer, Bars studying and partying are the priorties.

With Queens's and RMC it is almost a must to attend. They know some of theplayers and there are the rivalies

Everyone knows my thought about rink location and that is also part of it.

Kingston finally has a GM that knows what he is doing.

The reason that a lot of people did not get excited about the Villardi & Day, and Pu & Jones trade was that people saw what was going to happen for the next few years.

If you want to attract fans, you need to have a package that is at or near the top every year and not in the 3-year rebuild trade future, then the 3-year rebuild that Kingston was known for.

Why is London so good why was Ottawa so good under Killer? Both are because the GM and coach were the same built on developing players every year with the same system.

Kingston has run it's marketing on shoe string, much as Ottawa did when Earl owned it.

 

[frontsfan67]

If Kingston marketed to students they'd easily be able to fill up the rink but there's a lot of the old guard that don't like the rowdiness that comes with students, plus there's the long-standing battle between locals and students so I guarantee there'd be complaints about why they only market to students.

People complain for everything. If the old crowd doesn’t like newer hockey fans coming to watch the game they can watch on their TV’s. Need fans. Whenever all the old ones die off or lose interest who will replace them to fill the stands?

The marketing to students hype has been around since the team started almost. The challenge is that students are not gong to spendhte money for tickets.

Beer, Bars studying and partying are the priorties.

With Queens's and RMC it is almost a must to attend. They know some of theplayers and there are the rivalies

Everyone knows my thought about rink location and that is also part of it.

Kingston finally has a GM that knows what he is doing.

The reason that a lot of people did not get excited about the Villardi & Day, and Pu & Jones trade was that people saw what was going to happen for the next few years.

If you want to attract fans, you need to have a package that is at or near the top every year and not in the 3-year rebuild trade future, then the 3-year rebuild that Kingston was known for.

Why is London so good why was Ottawa so good under Killer? Both are because the GM and coach were the same built on developing players every year with the same system.

Kingston has run it's marketing on shoe string, much as Ottawa did when Earl owned it.

The thing is. If they’re doing well and not in a rebuilding stage wouldn’t it make sense to enjoy the games while you can? But even then they STILL don’t come out. Can’t be competitive every year. We don’t have the luxury that London does with recruiting and every time we get a good coach they leave in a few years then we have to deal with guys like Caputi and foster.

 

[beastintheeast]

People complain for everything. If the old crowd doesn’t like newer hockey fans coming to watch the game they can watch on their TV’s. Need fans. Whenever all the old ones die off or lose interest who will replace them to fill the stands?


The thing is. If they’re doing well and not in a rebuilding stage wouldn’t it make sense to enjoy the games while you can? But even then they STILL don’t come out. Can’t be competitive every year. We don’t have the luxury that London does with recruiting and every time we get a good coach they leave in a few years then we have to deal with guys like Caputi and foster.

Something people forget or do not realize is that Games, when we had the M Center, were more of a family thing. It was a night out where you went not so much for the hockey but to meet your friends and yak about what is happening. When I was in Kingston the first time, there was a group of guys that, before the game, you met by the brown's main counter, got your coffee and, talked about what was happening with the team, and ribbed each other. It was family. It was the same with the people that we sat around. Even when I was working with the 67's and a booster, my wife and I were welcomed back into the group, and we just picked up from where we were. You could walk around the arena, meet your friends, and chat with people you had not seen in a couple of times. It was the total experience of a night out. You could afford to go to the game, get dinner at Browns, and have a fun 3 hours for a relatively low price.

Kingston, like many teams with large arenas, only sells out when the team is in the championship or on a great playoff run.

Also around this time, there was little competition for the family entertainment. We did not have Netflix, internet, bog box theatres and everything else that was going on.

In my days of youth , LateSpring summer Friday was stock car at Kingston speedway and then hockey at the M center.

As a teen, it was drive-ins and hockey

Also remember that a lot of us old timers are getting up in age and can not afford the seson tickets and prices that are charged.

If you want to get bigger crowds then show consistency year in and year out. Make it an event instead of a hockey game. Hell I can sit here n Thaiand and watch OHL hockey cheaper than I could to go to a game if i was still in Kingston

 

[leafs4life94]

Interesting comments from the Whig article about the Lalonde trade regarding Salajko - I have no grasp on the goalie situation around the league but I can't imagine there are many teams that would be considering him for a back-up unless they truly believe he'll continue to develop.

My suspicion is that they'll run Lalonde/Vaccari this year with Betts as a 3rd, Vaccari/Betts in 25-26 and then from there assuming Betts pans out it'll be Betts' net.

 

[ktownfan]

congrats Sam Bennett

 

[OHL4Life]

Interesting comments from the Whig article about the Lalonde trade regarding Salajko - I have no grasp on the goalie situation around the league but I can't imagine there are many teams that would be considering him for a back-up unless they truly believe he'll continue to develop.

My suspicion is that they'll run Lalonde/Vaccari this year with Betts as a 3rd, Vaccari/Betts in 25-26 and then from there assuming Betts pans out it'll be Betts' net.

View attachment 886922

if hes making an american education package, thats a hard move to a team with average imcome.

 

[Kingpin794]

if hes making an american education package, thats a hard move to a team with average imcome.

Is it? There are smaller local universities all over the place that aren't that expensive and still offer a good education.

 

[OHL4Life]

Is it? There are smaller local universities all over the place that aren't that expensive and still offer a good education.

depends on the contract but normally its pretty aggressive. i

if he lives in ohio, ohio state would be the school they would use, 13k american which is close to 20k canadian, which can be 1st round pick cost. if its michigan state then its even more.

 

[leafs4life94]

Bob McKenzie's final draft ranking has Battaglia at 57 - which is right around the consensus late 2/early 3 I expect him to get picked, but the most interesting bit is this final sentence -

Prospects ranked below No. 50 who got first-round consideration from at least one scout included: Rimouski’s Spencer Gill at No. 53; Kingston Jacob Battaglia at No. 57; Sudbury’s Nathan Villeneuve at No. 73; Niagara’s Kevin He at No. 79 and Sweden’s Melvin Fernstrom at No. 80.

I haven't seen many rankings with him even in the top half of the second round so that fact that one scout out there as him as a first rounder is pretty great for him.

 

[PuckLucker]

Interesting comments from the Whig article about the Lalonde trade regarding Salajko - I have no grasp on the goalie situation around the league but I can't imagine there are many teams that would be considering him for a back-up unless they truly believe he'll continue to develop.

My suspicion is that they'll run Lalonde/Vaccari this year with Betts as a 3rd, Vaccari/Betts in 25-26 and then from there assuming Betts pans out it'll be Betts' net.

View attachment 886922

I think that first line in the article says it all from a GM who played 4 years in the OHL as a goalie and was a goaltending coach in the OHL & AHL for 15 years.

Hopefully the goaltending situation is sorted out now.

Last year things didn't pan out with Kyle Downey.
JJ Salajko only played 8 full games
This year the Fronts draft a goalie in the 2nd round (First Goalie drafted, 37th overall)
Now a trade to acquire an OA goalie

 

[ScoutLife4]

Bob McKenzie's final draft ranking has Battaglia at 57 - which is right around the consensus late 2/early 3 I expect him to get picked, but the most interesting bit is this final sentence -

I haven't seen many rankings with him even in the top half of the second round so that fact that one scout out there as him as a first rounder is pretty great for him.

First round i think it a stretch but i see him going mid to late 2nd.

 

[frontsfan67]

Interesting comments from the Whig article about the Lalonde trade regarding Salajko - I have no grasp on the goalie situation around the league but I can't imagine there are many teams that would be considering him for a back-up unless they truly believe he'll continue to develop.

My suspicion is that they'll run Lalonde/Vaccari this year with Betts as a 3rd, Vaccari/Betts in 25-26 and then from there assuming Betts pans out it'll be Betts' net.

View attachment 886922

Makes sense for sure. Didn’t think Salajko had a place in the team since the Lalonde trade. And obviously next year Betts will step in before taking over whenever vaccari graduates.

Some team may take a chance on him- young backup goalie. Good kid.

 

[frontsfan67]

Bob McKenzie's final draft ranking has Battaglia at 57 - which is right around the consensus late 2/early 3 I expect him to get picked, but the most interesting bit is this final sentence -

I haven't seen many rankings with him even in the top half of the second round so that fact that one scout out there as him as a first rounder is pretty great for him.

If it lines up it could be another Easton Cowan situation (picked way before expected, but obviously worked out great for them so far)

I expect him somewhere between middle of second to the middle of the third. Big gap but I don’t think he falls past then. Has a ton of skill and just needs to work on skating and defence.

Reminds me a little bit of Jason Robertson before his final year on the fronts in the way he plays. Bigger guys who are incredibly skilled, slow skaters, don’t like going into corners but high iq and have a hell of a shot. Robertson was better his draft year imo but he also had a better team to work with.

 

[OHL4Life]

Makes sense for sure. Didn’t think Salajko had a place in the team since the Lalonde trade. And obviously next year Betts will step in before taking over whenever vaccari graduates.

Some team may take a chance on him- young backup goalie. Good kid.

i saw so little of him but he seemed to be managed so poorly by caputi that its hard to throw him away after so little games, but at the same time who needs a backup goalie right now?

 

[frontsfan67]

i saw so little of him but he seemed to be managed so poorly by caputi that its hard to throw him away after so little games, but at the same time who needs a backup goalie right now?

Yeah I agree. And his first game shouldn’t have been against London although with the circumstances of where the team was at that point- clawing for the points I understand why did they it- but my point is they should’ve gotten him in atleast 1 reg season game before then.

If they knew there was going to be big questions about him they should’ve been playing him more in pre season to get him ready and against the odd team like Niagara or sarnia.

I forget how many he played exactly but I know the guy didn’t even get 10 games in lol- not even an A card. My guess is he starts year in one of the lower leagues like the OJHL/GOJHL or maybe even goes back to America and tries a league like the USHL(or a minor league to that even) and if he’s doing well some team may take a chance on him but I don’t think kingston would get more than a 15th round conditional for him if they traded him.

 

[OHL4Life]

Yeah I agree. And his first game shouldn’t have been against London although with the circumstances of where the team was at that point- clawing for the points I understand why did they it- but my point is they should’ve gotten him in atleast 1 reg season game before then.

If they knew there was going to be big questions about him they should’ve been playing him more in pre season to get him ready and against the odd team like Niagara or sarnia.

I forget how many he played exactly but I know the guy didn’t even get 10 games in lol- not even an A card. My guess is he starts year in one of the lower leagues like the OJHL/GOJHL or maybe even goes back to America and tries a league like the USHL(or a minor league to that even) and if he’s doing well some team may take a chance on him but I don’t think kingston would get more than a 15th round conditional for him if they traded him.

wouldnt be surprised to see him in the qmjhl.

 

[ktownfan]

did anyone ever hear what happened to Caputi? I could see him surfacing n the OJ, but never again anywhere above that. Man, was he brutal

 

[frontsfan67]

wouldnt be surprised to see him in the qmjhl.

That’s a possibility. Ling last year went there