GDT: Kings vs Avs : Las Vegas Edition

[PJ Kings Hockey]

This board is in mid season form already!

Feeling better about this team then I did a month ago. Kempe is going to be nice. Got some young guys looking at making the jump. Should be an exciting year!!!!


Looking forward to the Shark tank on Wednesday!!!!


Hockey's back *****es!!!!

You said it. Been a long summer. Hockey is finally back!

 

[Pucknut50]

As long as the NHL keeps the Red Line out the play it's just going to get worse and worse. No creative plays and it's become soccer. We need to put the red line back in so only the 4th line guys will be the non skill players which the Kings have 751 of them while the 10 or so skilled guys stay in Ontario.

 

[Fishhead]

As long as the NHL keeps the Red Line out the play it's just going to get worse and worse. No creative plays and it's become soccer. We need to put the red line back in so only the 4th line guys will be the non skill players which the Kings have 751 of them while the 10 or so skilled guys stay in Ontario.

It's a no win situation. If you put the red line back in, the game will just slow down more. It's going to get even more boring as a neutral zone trap will suddenly be effective again, and all a player will have to do is get in the way of the opposition a little bit to snuff out any speed they have. The only plus of putting the red line in is that there will be less high-speed hitting and as a result, less head injuries.

But really, the NHL isn't the problem, it's the coaches. No matter what changes are made, coaches are going to adjust and force a more controlled, defensive game. Goals just aren't that important anymore, but keeping it out of your own net is.

Last season, 14 of the top 15 teams in goals against made the playoffs. Only 2 teams outside of the top 16 in GAA (Detroit, 17 and Dallas, 20), didn't make the playoffs. No teams 21-30 in GAA made the playoffs. Detroit snuck in with a tie because Boston crapped the bed down the stretch, really the only exception was Dallas, who led the league in GF.

 

[damacles1156]

Coaches are always going to want the puck to stay out of their goal, and will coach as such.

It's hard to score in the NHL period, that's for a reason.

Everyone really needs to look at actual production league wide. It's not even close to what some of you people think.

 

[damacles1156]

I'm wondering what the point was of signing Purcell. I totally expect him to be miscast on this team, just as he was when Terry Murray was coaching this team.

This team is going to struggle to put up goals throughout the upcoming season. At most there are probably only three players who have a realistic shot at cracking 20+ goals. That's it.

You have described the Kings since 2008. Scoring at even an average pace has never been the point of Lombardi's philosophy. It's winning 3-1 3-2 2-1 2-0 ETC. Lombardi doesn't believe hockey is won by an offensive shootout or an offensive team, he never has.


Why does everyone think Lombardi is going to do a complete 180 on that ?

Or a (top-down) change, complete organizational restructure, is going to happen on that ?

Seriously need to wait at least 42 games before people start writing the season off.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You have described the Kings since 2008. Scoring at even an average pace has never been the point of Lombardi's philosophy. It's winning 3-1 3-2 2-1 2-0 ETC. Lombardi doesn't believe hockey is won by an offensive shootout or an offensive team, he never has.


Why does everyone think Lombardi is going to do a complete 180 on that ?

Or a (top-down) change, complete organizational restructure, is going to happen on that ?

Seriously need to wait at least 42 games before people start writing the season off.

The Kings of yesteryear found a way to outscore their opponents during the playoffs. Remember how their GF rate shot up in 2012 and 2014?

Who on this roster is capable of still doing that? Be honest.

 

[damacles1156]

The Kings of yesteryear found a way to outscore their opponents during the playoffs. Remember how their GF rate shot up in 2012 and 2014?

Who on this roster is capable of still doing that? Be honest.

I believe Kopitar/Carter/Toffoli/Pearson/Doughty/Muzzin are still on the roster (all productive players)

Did they get traded ?

Your best players, have to be your best players, you know this come on. If they crap the bed like last playoff's, the Kings are going to lose. That's a given for any team though.

What are you looking for ? 20 goals out of a bottom sixer ? that doesn't happen in today's NHL (unless they are some sort of tweener like Pearson last season)

You can count how many 40G scorers there are on one hand, per year, since 2011 I believe, it's hard to score in the NHL (Period).

09-10 season was the last time the NHL had more than Five players score over 40G. It's hard to score in the league, for a reason.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

Wrong thread. So long, Frozen Fury.

 

[damacles1156]

It's a no win situation. If you put the red line back in, the game will just slow down more. It's going to get even more boring as a neutral zone trap will suddenly be effective again, and all a player will have to do is get in the way of the opposition a little bit to snuff out any speed they have. The only plus of putting the red line in is that there will be less high-speed hitting and as a result, less head injuries.

But really, the NHL isn't the problem, it's the coaches. No matter what changes are made, coaches are going to adjust and force a more controlled, defensive game. Goals just aren't that important anymore, but keeping it out of your own net is.

Last season, 14 of the top 15 teams in goals against made the playoffs. Only 2 teams outside of the top 16 in GAA (Detroit, 17 and Dallas, 20), didn't make the playoffs. No teams 21-30 in GAA made the playoffs. Detroit snuck in with a tie because Boston crapped the bed down the stretch, really the only exception was Dallas, who led the league in GF.

It's why I get so frustrated when people moan about the (system) the Kings play.

Every single team in the NHL plays the same when up a goal or two. It's exactly the freaking same. 1-2-2 passive, keep the puck outside,....

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I believe Kopitar/Carter/Toffoli/Pearson/Doughty/Muzzin are still on the roster (all productive players)

Did they get traded ?

Your best players, have to be your best players, you know this come on. If they crap the bed like last playoff's, the Kings are going to lose. That's a given for any team though.

What are you looking for ? 20 goals out of a bottom sixer ? that doesn't happen in today's NHL (unless they are some sort of tweener like Pearson last season)

You can count how many 40G scorers there are on one hand, per year, since 2011 I believe, it's hard to score in the NHL (Period).

09-10 season was the last time the NHL had more than Five players score over 40G. It's hard to score in the league, for a reason.

Did I say the Kings need a 40 goal scorer? Did I say they need 20 goals from their grinders? What they do need is someone like Brown to get close to 20 goals though. Same with Purcell and Pearson. They need more than a handful of goals from their entire bottom six.

Did you notice the lack of support this team has bad offensively beyond the usual names who tend to produce? It was embarrassing how often those guys would get trapped in their own end of the ice.

So what happens if the top players hit a dry spell like they always do? The Pens had a lot of guys contribute beyond Crosby and Malkin. That's what got them far. That's what got the Sharks far. The Kings aren't even a two line team, it's a bunch of spare parts after the top three scorers.

This team is riddled with a bunch of stiffs. The teams in 2012 and 2014 got far and did it with Kopitar not providing much offense during the Cup Finals.

The poor drafting record by Lombardi and his questionable decision making is the reason why this team finds itself in the position they're in today.

You go ahead and make excuses like this is completely acceptable.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Did I say the Kings need a 40 goal scorer? Did I say they need 20 goals from their grinders? What they do need is someone like Brown to get close to 20 goals though. Same with Purcell and Pearson. They need more than a handful of goals from their entire bottom six.

Did you notice the lack of support this team has bad offensively beyond the usual names who tend to produce? It was embarrassing how often those guys would get trapped in their own end of the ice.

So what happens if the top players hit a dry spell like they always do? The Pens had a lot of guys contribute beyond Crosby and Malkin. That's what got them far. That's what got the Sharks far. The Kings aren't even a two line team, it's a bunch of spare parts after the top three scorers.

This team is riddled with a bunch of stiffs. The teams in 2012 and 2014 got far and did it with Kopitar not providing much offense during the Cup Finals.

The poor drafting record by Lombardi and his questionable decision making is the reason why this team finds itself in the position they're in today.

You go ahead and make excuses like this is completely acceptable.

The 'stiffs' youre referencing are mostly the ones who got it done in 2012 and 2014 though.

Pittsburgh basically pulled up their King and nolan moves, they were basically the 2012 Kings.

The Sharks absolutely did not do it with depth, they were top heavy their whole run, Ward and Couture were the major players beyond the top line and that's it.

You're both right, though--Damacles points out the myth that other teams have much better bottom lines, while you point out we need our current guys to be their past selves.

 

[Trolfoli]

The 'stiffs' youre referencing are mostly the ones who got it done in 2012 and 2014 though.

Pittsburgh basically pulled up their King and nolan moves, they were basically the 2012 Kings.

The Sharks absolutely did not do it with depth, they were top heavy their whole run, Ward and Couture were the major players beyond the top line and that's it.

You're both right, though--Damacles points out the myth that other teams have much better bottom lines, while you point out we need our current guys to be their past selves.

Are you saying we should bring back Stoll?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The 'stiffs' youre referencing are mostly the ones who got it done in 2012 and 2014 though.

Pittsburgh basically pulled up their King and nolan moves, they were basically the 2012 Kings.

The Sharks absolutely did not do it with depth, they were top heavy their whole run, Ward and Couture were the major players beyond the top line and that's it.

You're both right, though--Damacles points out the myth that other teams have much better bottom lines, while you point out we need our current guys to be their past selves.

Guys like Donskoi and Tierney and Karlsson were depth guys who could provide offense and move up in the lineup. They added to the offense produced from Thornton, Pavelski, Ward, Marleau, Couture and Hertl (who has tormented the Kings).

The Kings don't have that depth. The Sharks exposed them for their lack of depth and lack of speed. Oh and they added more speed to their offense this offseason in signing Boedker.

I can't wait for opening night.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

1. Melker Karlsson--19p in reg season, 8 in playoffs
2. Tierney -- 20p in season, 9 in playoffs
3. Donskoi--36p in season, 12 in playoffs

1. Lewis--16p last season, 25 the previous--5 in his last full playoffs
2. Dwight King--last three seasons at 30pt pace, 11 in 2014 playoffs (injuries or id use his last years)
3. Donskoi moved up and down the lineup, so he's basically comparable to Brown, unless you want to pretend he's strictly a third liner.

It wasn't the Sharks depth that did in the Kings, it was their top guys bludgeoning our top guys. Come on, it wasn't that long ago.

Again, it's a myth that other teams have some crazy depth that we don't. And that's not even taking into account that they were on the wrong side of the possession battle all playoffs long. We have the personnel, they just need to perform--and as you can see above, they have, at least on the level some around here are suggesting can't be done.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Did you notice the lack of support this team has bad offensively beyond the usual names who tend to produce? It was embarrassing how often those guys would get trapped in their own end of the ice.

Lack of offensive support and trapped in their own zone can be two different things.

So what happens if the top players hit a dry spell like they always do? The Pens had a lot of guys contribute beyond Crosby and Malkin. That's what got them far. That's what got the Sharks far. The Kings aren't even a two line team, it's a bunch of spare parts after the top three scorers.

The Penguins don't have that many non-spare parts. What they have is Crosby and Malkin, who both score more than Kopitar and Carter. Everyone has always been amazed they managed "only" 1 Cup win before last year.

This team is riddled with a bunch of stiffs. The teams in 2012 and 2014 got far and did it with Kopitar not providing much offense during the Cup Finals.

Well, in 2012 it was Brown, and 2014 it was Gaborik. Can't get rid of either guy, so all you can do is hope they can do something.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Lack of offensive support and trapped in their own zone can be two different things.



The Penguins don't have that many non-spare parts. What they have is Crosby and Malkin, who both score more than Kopitar and Carter. Everyone has always been amazed they managed "only" 1 Cup win before last year.



Well, in 2012 it was Brown, and 2014 it was Gaborik. Can't get rid of either guy, so all you can do is hope they can do something.

Both players you named scored many big goals in big situations. Sadly they're on the decline and there no players from within the system have moved up to fill a void (or voids) in the top six since Toffoli and to a lesser degree, Pearson.

With Gaborik out, Kopitar will have to carry Brown (who is not getting any better), and fill in the blank as the other winger.

If Pearson has another up and down year, Carter and Toffoli will have to be just as productive or better in the upcoming year.

Bottom line, the bottom six has to be better. I'm not saying they have to produce 60+ goals collectively, but they can't be a liability and they have to be better at alleviating some of the pressure the top six has to deal with.

It will be an easy night for opposing teams if they only have to worry about shutting down three forwards who pose as any threat inside the offensive zone.

Remember how the Kings handled the Blues in 2012 and 2013? That's the team the Kings have become now.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Both players you named scored many big goals in big situations. Sadly they're on the decline and there no players from within the system have moved up to fill a void (or voids) in the top six since Toffoli and to a lesser degree, Pearson.

With Gaborik out, Kopitar will have to carry Brown (who is not getting any better), and fill in the blank as the other winger.

If Pearson has another up and down year, Carter and Toffoli will have to be just as productive or better in the upcoming year.

Bottom line, the bottom six has to be better. I'm not saying they have to produce 60+ goals collectively, but they can't be a liability and they have to be better at alleviating some of the pressure the top six has to deal with.

It will be an easy night for opposing teams if they only have to worry about shutting down three forwards who pose as any threat inside the offensive zone.

Remember how the Kings handled the Blues in 2012 and 2013? That's the team the Kings have become now.

No question. It helps to have a little bit of everything going at the same time.

The reality of Brown and Gaborik is what it is. They're not going anywhere anytime soon, their contracts keep the Kings from adding other guys, and either they or cheap young guys have to do more than expected.

 

[kingsfan28]

The 'stiffs' youre referencing are mostly the ones who got it done in 2012 and 2014 though.

Pittsburgh basically pulled up their King and nolan moves, they were basically the 2012 Kings.

The Sharks absolutely did not do it with depth, they were top heavy their whole run, Ward and Couture were the major players beyond the top line and that's it.

You're both right, though--Damacles points out the myth that other teams have much better bottom lines, while you point out we need our current guys to be their past selves.

Also they lived off their pp in the post season. I think they won two or three games vs the Kings due to pp goals. Once the Pens shut that down , the Sharks didn't do anything to create offensive, including the bottom 6 depth.

 

[Little Psycho]

Sens fans roll call on the main boards

 

[Steve Zissou]

One of the few bright spots in this last Frozen Fury was Kempe. He's got some wheels, could move the puck up the ice, could dish it off to a winger, and I think will be a force down the road.

On the other hand, Zatkoff, not so much... Not impressed with his time away from the Kings.

 

[McMatthews]

I've been in LA the last week and I was a little disappointed this game was in Vegas.

I really wanted to see the Kings in exhibition.

We are all kings.

 

[Little Psycho]

I've been in LA the last week and I was a little disappointed this game was in Vegas.

I really wanted to see the Kings in exhibition.

We are all kings.

I have low expectations for this season, but welcome to the dark side.

 

[KingsKnight]

Hey all, I'm not planning to do the GDTs this season if someone wants to try their hand at them. I can do tomorrow's if no one wants to start, but I just won't have as much time to do them this season.