Confirmed with Link: Kings Trade Carcillo to the Rangers for a Seventh Round Pick

[King'sPawn]

:

if he leaves UFA i would consider Lewis another wasted 1st rounder.

He helped win the cup. Some of you people really need to get over the "what have you done for me lately" syndrome before labeling picks from EIGHT YEARS AGO.

 

[Whiskeypete]

He helped win the cup. Some of you people really need to get over the "what have you done for me lately" syndrome before labeling picks from EIGHT YEARS AGO.

so did plenty of others and they've since been signed to long-term contracts. Lewis is sitting on the outside looking in during a contract year without an extension.

1st and 2nd round picks should result in a player that remains and plays at a very high level for an extended period of time. a 5-year period to date with mixed results isn't what a 1st rounder should net you. teams that are built via the draft cannot fail on 1st and 2nd's, Dean has been blessed to have hit paydirt in later rounds to cover these gaffes

 

[KingLB]

so did plenty of others and they've since been signed to long-term contracts. Lewis is sitting on the outside looking in during a contract year without an extension.

1st and 2nd round picks should result in a player that remains and plays at a very high level for an extended period of time. a 5-year period to date with mixed results isn't what a 1st rounder should net you. teams that are built via the draft cannot fail on 1st and 2nd's, Dean has been blessed to have hit paydirt in later rounds to cover these gaffes

I'm curious what you consider a wasted vs none wasted first round pick. Judeing by your metrics probably half the picks ever made are "wasted". If not more.

Hell Bernier is wasted by your metrics.

 

[Whiskeypete]

I'm curious what you consider a wasted vs none wasted first round pick. Judgeing by your metrics probably half the picks ever made are "wasted". If not more.

Hell Bernier is wasted by your metrics.

hey King sure thing. the other day i said the Bernier pick was a bust, but it isn't the same situation.

the Bernier situation i consider a bust because of the return we got for JB. much of it was due to market conditions, so DL wasn't going to recoup anything of substantial return whether that was a top player, prospect or pick. we all knew the return wasn't going to be significant.

my problem with the return was Frattin as the primary piece. he was a round peg for a square hole issue (top LW gap). trying to fit Frattin into possibly becoming the answer to the LW issue to me was an awful return when he had zero experience at LW.

the Bernier situation was one that frankly something long-time Kings fans have been waiting for and never experienced. having two, drafted #1 keepers. when DL picked Bernie it still wasn't known that Quick would go beast mode and essentially never let Bernie back on the ice. goalie is the one spot on the team that you really can't have two top goalies long-term, especially in the salary cap era. we were fortunate only to have them as long as we did because of they were both on early contracts.

just my take on it though, so it's worth $0.02 at most

 

[King'sPawn]

so did plenty of others and they've since been signed to long-term contracts. Lewis is sitting on the outside looking in during a contract year without an extension.

1st and 2nd round picks should result in a player that remains and plays at a very high level for an extended period of time. a 5-year period to date with mixed results isn't what a 1st rounder should net you. teams that are built via the draft cannot fail on 1st and 2nd's, Dean has been blessed to have hit paydirt in later rounds to cover these gaffes

So on the other side of the coin, do you consider trading Teubert and the 2011 first round pick a waste? After all, the picks didn't yield a high quality player for a sustained time period, but without Penner, the Kings wouldn't have won the cup either.

 

[KingLB]

hey King sure thing. the other day i said the Bernier pick was a bust, but it isn't the same situation.

the Bernier situation i consider a bust because of the return we got for JB. much of it was due to market conditions, so DL wasn't going to recoup anything of substantial return whether that was a top player, prospect or pick. we all knew the return wasn't going to be significant.

my problem with the return was Frattin as the primary piece. he was a round peg for a square hole issue (top LW gap). trying to fit Frattin into possibly becoming the answer to the LW issue to me was an awful return when he had zero experience at LW.

the Bernier situation was one that frankly something long-time Kings fans have been waiting for and never experienced. having two, drafted #1 keepers. when DL picked Bernie it still wasn't known that Quick would go beast mode and essentially never let Bernie back on the ice. goalie is the one spot on the team that you really can't have two top goalies long-term, especially in the salary cap era. we were fortunate only to have them as long as we did because of they were both on early contracts.

just my take on it though, so it's worth $0.02 at most

I guess that depends on if you see Frattin as the center piece. I'd argue the 2nd was. Hell that plus that cap space is basically a first for the Kings let alone Ben.

So on the other side of the coin, do you consider trading Teubert and the 2011 first round pick a waste? After all, the picks didn't yield a high quality player for a sustained time period, but without Penner, the Kings wouldn't have won the cup either.

Good question. Cause if Colton was a wasted first for the Kings....does that make Schenn one?

 

[Whiskeypete]

Teubert is a definite bust. hell he can't even make it in EDM with all their defensive issues.

yes he netted Penner and LA wouldn't have won the SC without him, but this is a case of wasted top picks that should develop into a roster player that results in long term success.

with Pancakes we got the Cup, but we got a lot of WTF and ultimately the team parted ways as a result of that.

missing on 1st and 2nd picks results in this type of situation. a team having to trade a top pick to fill an immediate hole. it becomes a never ending cycle that is difficult to break, if you can't hit and develop the talent.

let's look at the 2011 1st to EDM, which resulted in Klefbom. i hate to play the second guess game, but look at some of the guys picked between the Klefbom pick and C Gibson for LA at #49 (which is another lost #2). there is one player in particular that would easily be in today's line up and likely skating on the top lines. he would easily solve our LW hole and play top 6 minutes. instead the Kings trade Teubert and a pick, for Penner but that pick could have resulted in a player in the 2011 draft that today would address the current LW problem. the team still has the same issue at LW two years later and may cost the team yet another pick and player.

this happens to every team, but you must minimize the misses with the top picks.

 

[Whiskeypete]

I guess that depends on if you see Frattin as the center piece. I'd argue the 2nd was. Hell that plus that cap space is basically a first for the Kings let alone Ben.



Good question. Cause if Colton was a wasted first for the Kings....does that make Schenn one?

that's a good point. yeah i can see the #2 being the center piece return for LA and Frattin kind of throw in, while Scrivens gave them the immediate replacement for JB. if the #2 is the center piece return, then it goes back to my point. DL and Futa have to get a solid player that will be here long-term. if that player turns into another C Gibson for example, then we just lost a #1 G that was a 1st rounder (Bernier).


Schenn i don't see as a miss because it netted Richie in return. Homer and Ed made a bad move and Dean jumped all over them. Schenn was a top pick, but he returned us one of the top two way centers in the world. a center that immediately solidified LA down the middle.

i hated losing out on a top offensive prospect, because frankly we hadn't had one in forever. i hated lose Simmer, but we are talking about Richards.

i was ecstatic and thought we fleeced PHI on that trade. hey if the trade partner ***** the bed that is their problem. when it's your pick and in your roster it have to maximize the return.

the PHI fans in retrospect that aren't drinking the cool-aid can see this. Richie was a god send to the Kings at the right time. his trade is one of the best trades ever for this team. PHI on the other hand has gone the other direction and isn't going anyplace in the near future. they elected to go with that sh**bird Pronger and run the heart and soul of the team out of town. their loss, LA's gain......more importantly LA's SC in 2012.

 

[Trolfoli]

Didn't the Kings trade down on the Teubert pick as well? Passed on Tyler Myer's.

 

[Herby]

Colten Teubert was a mega bust, when you factor in who he was taken over it is easily one of the worst draft picks of the last decade. I am not a big Lewis fan and would call him a disappointing pick more than a bust.

Colten Teubert started out in the ECHL, struggled to stay in the AHL, wasn't given a QO by the Oilers and wasn't even offered an AHL contract and has ultimately ended up on a bad team in probably the 5th best league in Europe, and is struggling on top of that.

Lewis is atleast an NHL player, and contributed to a cup winner. He is nowhere close to the awfulness that is Colten Teubert.

 

[no name]

And we paid a 5th for him?

 

[Reclamation Project]

Teubert was smug as hell, wasn't he?

 

[Herby]

Teubert was smug as hell, wasn't he?

Yes, but some people ate it up.

His comments after injuring Jordan Caron ( a potential teammate) were in pretty bad taste.

He was a horrible pick from the start though, you knew the Kings were done with him after one season when they sent him to Ontario rather than Manchester. That was it for his NHL prospects.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I thought we were all in agreement that DLs track record for first-round picks is spotty at best?

Keep stocking them second rounders and we're good

 

[DocWest]

****. I liked Carcillo.

 

[gonnaneedsomewine]

I don't like this trade I like the sandpaper element Carcillo brings it could be useful in the postseason to badger star players on other teams and get them off their games. He plays hard and he throws his body around. Good bottom six energy player. No reason to just dump him IMO.

 

[Nizar]

And we paid a 5th for him?

No 6th in 2015, because he played less than 40 games for the Kings.

 

[King'sPawn]

Teubert is a definite bust. hell he can't even make it in EDM with all their defensive issues.

yes he netted Penner and LA wouldn't have won the SC without him, but this is a case of wasted top picks that should develop into a roster player that results in long term success.

with Pancakes we got the Cup, but we got a lot of WTF and ultimately the team parted ways as a result of that.

missing on 1st and 2nd picks results in this type of situation. a team having to trade a top pick to fill an immediate hole. it becomes a never ending cycle that is difficult to break, if you can't hit and develop the talent.

let's look at the 2011 1st to EDM, which resulted in Klefbom. i hate to play the second guess game, but look at some of the guys picked between the Klefbom pick and C Gibson for LA at #49 (which is another lost #2). there is one player in particular that would easily be in today's line up and likely skating on the top lines. he would easily solve our LW hole and play top 6 minutes. instead the Kings trade Teubert and a pick, for Penner but that pick could have resulted in a player in the 2011 draft that today would address the current LW problem. the team still has the same issue at LW two years later and may cost the team yet another pick and player.

this happens to every team, but you must minimize the misses with the top picks.

But there's a big difference between a bust, a disappointment, and a waste of a pick.

In the draft, the goal isn't to pick NHLers with every pick, because then EVERY GM ALWAYS fails. The goal is to get assets, and HOPE that a couple become NHLers.

For example, Dany Roussin is a waste of a pick. Crosby's linemate, picked in the second round, never contributed from an organizational stand point and was never used as an asset to bring anything back.

Teubert was a bust, because he didn't really contribute from an organizational stand point, BUT he was still valued enough at the time to be used in a trade for a cup winning piece.

Lewis is a lot like Hickey. He didn't develop into a player we hoped, but he IS an NHLer, and he was a regular player on a cup winning team. And while Hickey was lost for nothing, he was a regular player in Manchester, helped some of the younger players, AND he turned out to be a regular.

You can't look at players who have had better outings and were picked later, although it's difficult for me too at times. It's just not a fair way since every organization has different circumstances.

What you do is look at what value each pick has brought. Lewis, as a regular mainstay during the cup run, has brought a LOT more to be considered a wasted pick.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

You mean back checking or what?

Back checking has very little to with positioning (other than picking up your guy, ie not backchecking to the puck).

Deslauriers is just adjusting to forward still. Even as a defenseman he struggled with defensive positioning. He needs to work on finding his spots, not only in the defensive zone. He is showing more promise as forward, IMO, potentially even as a swing man eventually which could be HUGELY useful (ala more forward leaning Harrold). Coaches love that sort of versatility.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Someone told me we made this trade to start clearing cap space for Marian Gaborik or Andrew Ladd. . ? Lel.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Someone told me we made this trade to start clearing cap space for Marian Gaborik or Andrew Ladd. . ? Lel.

I doubt WPG would EVER get rid of Ladd, but talk about a perfect fit, heh.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

I doubt WPG would EVER get rid of Ladd, but talk about a perfect fit, heh.

While I agree it would be the absolute PERFECT fit for the Kings, WPG is simply not going to trade Ladd for anything remotely realistic. He just means too much not only to the team, but the organization. He is the heart of the team, he was the one who when the team was sold came in a signed long-term right away. He's the reason Jets were able to retain Wheeler, Little, Bogo, etc (IMO). It would just take way too much from the Kings to get Ladd (or any team really).

 

[santiclaws]

1st and 2nd round picks should result in a player that remains and plays at a very high level for an extended period of time.

Utter nonsense. Only something like one-third of the of players picked in the bottom half of the first round end up playing 400 games in the NHL. Second rounders are obviously less likely to make an impact, something like one in six or seven picked in the second round end up playing 400 games in the NHL. If I recall correctly, over half of players picked in the second rounder don't end up playing a single NHL game.

Lewis, picked 17th overall, is well on his way to 400 games. Which means he will have overcome the 2:1 odds against him doing that, which makes him a very successful pick. The Kings are actually extremely unusual because they have several regulars picked in the second round and below playing on their roster.

 

[Herby]

The problem with the Lewis pick was the same problem with the Teubert pick, the Kings didn't swing for the fences, heck didn't swing for a single, they sacrifice bunted on both picks. I remember Lewis as a recruit for Michigan and he was considered a solid two-way player, but there were concerns from the coaching staff about how he would produce at the college level, so his offensive shortcomings were well known before the Kings took him at 17. I said earlier it wasn't fair to compare TL to Teubert, and it isn't, but you can't just look at GP and say that a pick is successful. I'd rather swing and miss on a talented player in the first round and sign a guy like Lewis for a million a year as a FA or trade a 4th rounder rather than use a 1st round pick to draft a guy like that.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Lewis was draft eligible the year before as well.

I kinda understand the choice though. He had wheels (still has) and good offensive production for the Buccaneers. He outproduced a sure fire upcoming top 10 pick (Okposo) with 17 points while being only one year older.

Unfortunately things turned out differently.