Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
And I think that is the biggest part of the winning streak(plus home games) the kids are all piss and vinegar
Confirmed with Link: Kings sign Mikey Anderson to his 3 year ELC
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TruKingFan
Two-Time Cup Winner
Offensively like Duchesne and defensively like Scuderi is hopefully what Mikey will be when he grows up.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
The good problem is most of the recent draftees are leaders, letter guys for their teams--Bjornfot, Turcotte, Thomas, Dudas...lot of character to compete with!
Even better, Bjornfot, Anderson and Turcotte display near NHL ready talent..
- May 9, 2014
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It was never more than just a rumour people have chosen to believe. It’s a convenient rumour used to beat Blake up with. Yes we were interested in him, and there were discussions but what was discussed has been speculated upon and the stock placed in the rumours seems to be directly related to people’s general view on Blake.
I cannot take any argument using rumours and opinions as fact all that seriously. Most ‘credible sources’ get as many things wrong as they do right, if not more. Some of the packages may well have been what MTL were asking for as the leaks seemed to be from that end, but that doesn’t mean the Kings were happy to go with it.
- May 9, 2014
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I agree, this is the most encouraging thing about our prospect pool. It’s one of the reasons I think we will have a higher than average hit rate on prospect development.
bland
Registered User
- Jul 1, 2004
- 8,244
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Just so you understand, no, this was not a rumor. It wasn't gathered by a compilation of media reports, it wasn't a hunch, no, Muzzin was not a throw in, he was the main piece, this was very real and done pending Pacioretty's agreement to a contract. Its not much of a secret, and I guarantee you that there are others here who know the same thing I do, likely even much more, but they don't post very often just because of these kinds of juvenile responses over the last couple of pages.
I don't post about rumors, 99% are midunderstood utterances where folks put 2 and 2 together and get 4000. Sure, they are fun, but you learn in time to take them with grains of salt. However, when things reach finishing stages, specifically contracts being drawn up, yeah, sometimes things do get out from completely reliable sources.
I am sorry I wasted my time trying to help out a bunch of internet ninnies who spend all day trying to "gotcha" each other instead of being interested in how their team is being run.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Maybe it's because the "I'm better than you are" response doesn't play well.
Quite a few HF posters with well documented inside sources are vetted, and they typically don't have a laundry list of documentation disagreeing with their assertions the way you have in this case, nor do they show up with the same "i'm actually an insider" ego like you did here.
If it's juvenile to question a rumor, you may want to refrain from posting as such, or reach out to leadership to get vetted appropriately.
- May 9, 2014
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There is nothing juvenile in not taking something posted on an Internet forum as anything other than a rumour. I couldn’t tell you who on this forum is well connected or who isn’t. With all due respect, I have no idea who you are and as such no reason to trust your posts any more than anybody else.
I can say that when I’ve been in the position of having cast iron inside information on my local pro team I just kept it to myself. I never took the opportunity to spread anything my source gave me as I treated it with the appropriate level of trust. It’s why I treat any piece of ‘inside info’ on a forum with a pinch of salt as I like to think anybody trusted with such info wouldn’t share it on an Internet forum. Maybe I’m an idealist.
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
This is the most juvenile post in the kings forum here. congrats
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BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
I just don't understand why anyone wants to stand up for Blake so hard about his work pre-Muzzin trade.
He stayed the course in '18 to see if a coaching change would help the core. It did, but it also wasn't long-lasting as that team started to sputter later in to the season.
Even after getting swept, he figured they would be even better with Carter for a full season but they still needed more offense. I'm not going to say for certainty that Muzzin was in the Patches deal, but there were definitely some sort of futures involved: be it prospects or picks. Contract terms weren't agreeable so there is Kovy.
Thank goodness it didn't happen, much like Deano's fortunate non-moves. It's perfectly okay though to say that Blake was fully prepared to do the one thing he is consistently given credit for: not moving futures. He was going to move some sort of future assets for immediate gratification on a team that didn't deserve it, also known as Dean's biggest downfall.
It's okay to admit he was going to do it. It didn't happen so you can't fault him for it as far as results go: it can only be used to show that this hasn't been a fully committed rebuild until the bottom fell out in '19 and that he really misjudged what was going on. It's been much better once the rebuild went in to full swing but losing and trading established NHL players for draft picks is easy. He failed his firsts few tests and is currently passing the current tests. Final judgment is all going to come from the next one as it will make or break his tenure: the transition from potential to tangible results.
What's wrong with that? I don't like him but he's doing things right over the last calendar year and I'm happy for that.
As for Anderson, I think he's playing like we all hoped he would. Smart and in good position. I don't need him to be great offensively: this team just needs defensemen that can win a board battle and make great outlet passes. Everything about him looks great so far except for that number 44 on his back.
He stayed the course in '18 to see if a coaching change would help the core. It did, but it also wasn't long-lasting as that team started to sputter later in to the season.
Even after getting swept, he figured they would be even better with Carter for a full season but they still needed more offense. I'm not going to say for certainty that Muzzin was in the Patches deal, but there were definitely some sort of futures involved: be it prospects or picks. Contract terms weren't agreeable so there is Kovy.
Thank goodness it didn't happen, much like Deano's fortunate non-moves. It's perfectly okay though to say that Blake was fully prepared to do the one thing he is consistently given credit for: not moving futures. He was going to move some sort of future assets for immediate gratification on a team that didn't deserve it, also known as Dean's biggest downfall.
It's okay to admit he was going to do it. It didn't happen so you can't fault him for it as far as results go: it can only be used to show that this hasn't been a fully committed rebuild until the bottom fell out in '19 and that he really misjudged what was going on. It's been much better once the rebuild went in to full swing but losing and trading established NHL players for draft picks is easy. He failed his firsts few tests and is currently passing the current tests. Final judgment is all going to come from the next one as it will make or break his tenure: the transition from potential to tangible results.
What's wrong with that? I don't like him but he's doing things right over the last calendar year and I'm happy for that.
As for Anderson, I think he's playing like we all hoped he would. Smart and in good position. I don't need him to be great offensively: this team just needs defensemen that can win a board battle and make great outlet passes. Everything about him looks great so far except for that number 44 on his back.
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
It is easy to play Monday morning quarterback knowing what happened.
The Kings were a 98 point team the season before. Sure they did get swept, but they also got swept by the team that went all the way to the cup finals , only losing 3 games in the first three rounds.
I think most GMs would have taken the same route as Blake did
I think people(at least myself) are just pointing out that rumored return are unconfirmed and the potential return seems to grow every time it is mentioned. I mean, look at the links provided, every single one has a different return, ranging from Toffoli, to a 1st, to JAD, to a 2nd round pick. It's a Kings forum so it is worth pointing that out.
The way you phrase that makes it seem that you believe Muzzin was a part of the deal. Every single insider said he was not a part of the potential deal, but beyond that logic tells you he would have not been included. If you are trying to compete why would you trade your number 2 defenseman? Further, why would anything be added to Muzzin for Patches? Muzzin's return was fairly similar to the one Patches got.
BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
I don't believe Muzzin was in it based on the "why would you do that if you are competing?" line of thinking but, what I do know, is that some sort of futures were involved which is the entire problem for me since there is this belief that Blake was determined not to move any futures (I guess outside of acquiring Torrey Mitchell for no reason). I left the door open that maybe he was because there were rumors of him being included at the time and, to be fair, I respect Bland as a poster and am not going to shit all over his assertion that he knows something.
The trade had to occur at a certain point in the draft--I believe prior to the Kupari pick--because the Kings needed to know what was up before making that selection. So, without any inside sources of my own, I'm pretty certain futures were leaving. Which ones? Neither you or I know, just like we don't know 100% that Connor or Barzal are Kings right now without the Lucic trade but there is a lot of smoke leading to the belief one of those guys was the Kings pick. Too bad for Dean that he didn't dodge that bullet like Blake did here.
BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
It's also easy to shit on Dean's future killing deals to try to extend the team's run. Problem is that Blake is going all in after getting swept by a team that only lost three games in the first three rounds as opposed to going all in on a team that just won its second Cup in three years only 12 months prior: less than 12 months when talking the Sekera deal.
People didn't like the Lucic deal when it happened and people didn't like the Kovy deal. For me, there was a lot more confidence in the roster heading in to the 2016 season than the 2019 season. There were still legit thoughts of competing for a Cup with Lucic but people hated the cost: rightfully so. With Kovy, it didn't cost any tangible future assets so it didn't hurt nearly as much but there was still way more doubt about the roster heading in to 2019 than the one with Lucic now in tow.
Blake was wrong. So was Dean. We can explain why both did what they did but this is a results business and the results were poor. At least in Blake's case, it helped hasten a rebuild that nobody apparently was ready to do yet so there is a silver lining to it. I'm ready to sing Blake's praises and hope that I get to do so soon, but that doesn't mean his mistakes just get explained away with "anyone would have done it". We shouldn't want the GM that is like most other GMs in the league. That's like saying you want your QB to be like most QBs in the NFL. No thank you.
redcard
System Poster
- Mar 12, 2007
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Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,582
- 11,767
I mean, it's possible that he does know something that every one else doesn't. However, I would argue that Elliote Friedman is a decent insider and he stated that the rumored potential deal did not include Muzzin. I also, find it hard to believe that it included Muzzin, JAD and a 2nd round pick(especially when we saw later that Blake viewed Muzzins value at a 1st and two good prospects).
Most people believe based on the timing that potential deal centered around the 2nd round pick. In the 31 thoughts discussing this Friedman mentioned the conversation happening prior to the 2nd round.
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BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
Including Muzzin doesn't make sense but I can't say for certain he wasn't part of it. First Google hit that comes up talks about the timing element being centered on the Kings 1st round pick but, again, don't know for sure. Based on common sense and what Patches netted in return, a future more significant than just a 2nd round pick was included. Vegas gave up a young 20 goal scorer, a 2017 1st rounder in Suzuki and a 2019 2nd. What would make "sense" would be Toffoli, the Kupari pick and a 2nd or JAD. They were supposedly asking for Toffoli/Vilardi/Pick at the prior TDL. Kings move Toffoli but add Kovalchuk and Patches.
That is all speculation though. I believe a trade being in place based upon the contract extension is not speculation and neither is the fact that futures were involved in the trade. If McKenzie is reporting on the deal being done but needing the extension, it is hard to argue that point. The return is the question but futures being involved is not in question: just which ones.
Draft day deal to send Pacioretty to Kings fell through - TSN.ca
This is the discussion from 31 thoughts, Friedman is widely considered a very reliable insider. He specifically mentions that the Habs went to MaxPac prior to the 2nd round with the potential offer. So, the Kupari pick couldn't have been involved. He also says that Muzzin was not involved. That is about the most information that we know regarding this potential trade.
However, this back and forth is a perfect example of why this has become annoying. Nobody has a clue what the potential return was, so each individual can make up their own return to make Blake look better/worse.
