Confirmed with Link: Kings announce signing kovalchuk to 3 year contract.

[kingsholygrail]

You're (deliberately) missing the point. So you can covertly ***** about Kopitar some more. I get it.

Signing Kovalchuk doesn't harm any of that. If anything, he was the absolutely perfect middle ground in that he didn't cost assets, didn't take spots from a kid, didn't hurt the tank, and was pretty entertaining.

This is honestly the dumbest move for anyone to complain about since 2014. Bar none. Bland is complaining about the symbolism, but if the name is Ladislav Nagy instead of Ilya Kovalchuk, no one blinks an eye.

Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time..

 

[jimmy1100]

Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time..

LOL - remember our killer FA class from that year? Nagy, Tom Preissing, Michal Handzus, and Kyle Calder?

I did like Handzus and what he brought, though!

 

[Choralone]

LOL - remember our killer FA class from that year? Nagy, Tom Preissing, Michal Handzus, and Kyle Calder?

I did like Handzus and what he brought, though!

Yeah, Handzus was an excellent signing.

 

[KINGS17]

Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time..

He's an old hermit living out in the desert somewhere, and goes by the name Lad Nagy. He may be our only hope.

 

[Statto]

Yeah, Handzus was an excellent signing.

Agreed but he took an awful lot of unfair criticism early on as it took a while for him to be appreciated.

 

[Bandit]

He's an old hermit living out in the desert somewhere, and goes by the name Lad Nagy. He may be our only hope.

* beyond the dune sea

 

[bland]

You're (deliberately) missing the point. So you can covertly ***** about Kopitar some more. I get it.

Signing Kovalchuk doesn't harm any of that. If anything, he was the absolutely perfect middle ground in that he didn't cost assets, didn't take spots from a kid, didn't hurt the tank, and was pretty entertaining.

This is honestly the dumbest move for anyone to complain about since 2014. Bar none. Bland is complaining about the symbolism, but if the name is Ladislav Nagy instead of Ilya Kovalchuk, no one blinks an eye.

See, here is the thing that you are missing. You keep repeating that there was no risk - there absolutely was a risk, this management group had one opportunity to augment their roster and spent it ALL on a +35 guy who hadn't played in the league in years, for a league that has changed significantly during his absence, who even in his prime had a style that was blatantly incompatible with any player on the roster, and for a team whose entire success was predicated on defensive structure.

It was the worst fit imaginable, and it was their only kick at that can. Not only should they have known it didn't work, they gave him a year more than any other suitor despite the fact that everybody and their brother knew he wanted LA for his wife's sake. They gave him a NMC so they had no outs in the event that what was never going to work didn't work.

It was a disaster of a contract, and this was after getting put over a barrel by Ottawa by all teams. There was no plan to build for.the future at that time. There was no out, no back up plan, no extra cap to bring in anybody else - all their eggs were in one basket that was more holes than weaving.

Take a look at the asset list. Half of the top ten would be gone if Pacioretty signed here. That's our general manager at work. Take a look again - some of those guys will never play in LA. Thats how the game works. Do trust the guy who thought Phaneuf and Kovalchuk would work? The guy who was going to strip mine the farm system for another retirement contract? The guy who thought Cammalleri and Jokinen were answers?

There is a whole hell of a lot more to the health of an organization than just stockpiling picks. Blake has shown no proactive discipline, no ingenuity, no ability to correctly understand his teams position and development. They appear to have drafted pretty damn well, but lets see if the nepotism in this management group can make the right decisions to develop them. The Kovalchuk deal is a damn good reason to be very worried.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

See, here is the thing that you are missing. You keep repeating that there was no risk - there absolutely was a risk, this management group had one opportunity to augment their roster and spent it ALL on a +35 guy who hadn't played in the league in years, for a league that has changed significantly during his absence, who even in his prime had a style that was blatantly incompatible with any player on the roster, and for a team whose entire success was predicated on defensive structure.

It was the worst fit imaginable, and it was their only kick at that can. Not only should they have known it didn't work, they gave him a year more than any other suitor despite the fact that everybody and their brother knew he wanted LA for his wife's sake. They gave him a NMC so they had no outs in the event that what was never going to work didn't work.

It was a disaster of a contract, and this was after getting put over a barrel by Ottawa by all teams. There was no plan to build for.the future at that time. There was no out, no back up plan, no extra cap to bring in anybody else - all their eggs were in one basket that was more holes than weaving.

Take a look at the asset list. Half of the top ten would be gone if Pacioretty signed here. That's our general manager at work. Take a look again - some of those guys will never play in LA. Thats how the game works. Do trust the guy who thought Phaneuf and Kovalchuk would work? The guy who was going to strip mine the farm system for another retirement contract? The guy who thought Cammalleri and Jokinen were answers?

There is a whole hell of a lot more to the health of an organization than just stockpiling picks. Blake has shown no proactive discipline, no ingenuity, no ability to correctly understand his teams position and development. They appear to have drafted pretty damn well, but lets see if the nepotism in this management group can make the right decisions to develop them. The Kovalchuk deal is a damn good reason to be very worried.

Cammalleri and Jussi Jokinen were low risk costs that amounted to nothing, just like Trent Hunter, Ethan Moreau, Devin Setoguchi, Teddy Purcell. Were you just as outraged when first round picks were given up for Lucic and Sekera?

You don’t even know what the hell was being offered to Montreal for Pacioretty, and how the hell did Ottawa benefit from that Phaneuf trade? Seems like you continue to grasp at straws to yell at the clouds in the sky.

 

[Kingspiracy]

Agreed but he took an awful lot of unfair criticism early on as it took a while for him to be appreciated.

I thought he sucked to start with, didnt he come here with an injury or something.

 

[Bandit]

I thought he sucked to start with, didnt he come here with an injury or something.

Yes a knee injury IIRC.

 

[Kingspiracy]

Yes a knee injury IIRC.

yeah that rings a bell

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

See, here is the thing that you are missing. You keep repeating that there was no risk - there absolutely was a risk, this management group had one opportunity to augment their roster and spent it ALL on a +35 guy who hadn't played in the league in years, for a league that has changed significantly during his absence, who even in his prime had a style that was blatantly incompatible with any player on the roster, and for a team whose entire success was predicated on defensive structure.

Who should they have spent it on? If the answer is 'no one,' the net result is the same; if the answer is literally anyone else, then you're being a hypocrite being as you thought everyone should have been traded by now.

And see, what YOU are missing is there's a very easy, opposite way to see it--the best defensive/PK team in the league that was hurting for PP and depth scoring swinging at a free asset who still had a shot. Simple.

It was the worst fit imaginable, and it was their only kick at that can. Not only should they have known it didn't work, they gave him a year more than any other suitor despite the fact that everybody and their brother knew he wanted LA for his wife's sake. They gave him a NMC so they had no outs in the event that what was never going to work didn't work.

Fact? Conjecture.

Worst fit imaginable = opinion.

NMC again, doesn't matter. They had an out and it's been exercised. Done.

It was a disaster of a contract, and this was after getting put over a barrel by Ottawa by all teams. There was no plan to build for.the future at that time. There was no out, no back up plan, no extra cap to bring in anybody else - all their eggs were in one basket that was more holes than weaving.

So this isn't really about Kovy, you just have an axe to grind.

Ah yes, Gaborik for Phaneuf, totally bent over. Ottawa got a lot out of that. Is it possible to have two losers in a trade?

Take a look at the asset list. Half of the top ten would be gone if Pacioretty signed here. That's our general manager at work. Take a look again - some of those guys will never play in LA. Thats how the game works. Do trust the guy who thought Phaneuf and Kovalchuk would work? The guy who was going to strip mine the farm system for another retirement contract? The guy who thought Cammalleri and Jokinen were answers?

Conjecture at absolute best.

And then you go on and own yourself complaining that the list will hardly play in la. Talk about having your cake and eating it to. Lose-lose situation for Blake in your eyes--can't trade those guys because it would be unloading quality assets for a vet (but wait, didn't you just complain that we spent our money on Kovalchuk instead of something else? Weird.), can't keep them because half of them will be trash.

There is a whole hell of a lot more to the health of an organization than just stockpiling picks. Blake has shown no proactive discipline, no ingenuity, no ability to correctly understand his teams position and development. They appear to have drafted pretty damn well, but lets see if the nepotism in this management group can make the right decisions to develop them. The Kovalchuk deal is a damn good reason to be very worried.

Blake has shown that he won't subscribe to sunk-cost fallacy, and seems to damn well understand where we are now. Now you're mad that he's keeping picks and apparently drafting well.


You are all over the map. Maybe pick one path and stay mad about it because it's useless to simultaneously mad about both sides of three different issues. Can't trade the picks, but stockpiling and keeping them is dumb. Shouldn't have signed Kovalchuk, should have wasted that money on another vet. Shouldn't trade for vets, but the team sucks, and keeping picks sucks...so what exactly should Blake be doing to raise his profile?

I'm not even the biggest Blake fan in the world but this is just incoherent. Yes, you are absolutely correct that I'm missing something...a cohesive argument from you.

Just say you're not a fan of Blake, that's easier. You're more than entitled to that opinion and plenty share it. That's cool. But the stuff above leads in circles.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Yes a knee injury IIRC.

The Kings MRI machine was still down at that time.

 

[King'sPawn]

The one thing I will agree with @bland on is Blake's failure to recognize issues and direction with the organization.

Looking into trading for Pacioretty and Skinner was the worst idea. Yes, the Kings were addressing scoring, but trying to trade futures when the cupboards were empty was reckless.

The Kings were missing out on a second wave of leadership. Players from 2010-14 (namely Toffoli, Pearson, Forbort, Kempe) were showing very little ownership. 2015-16 was a lack of quantity and quality. The Kings could not afford to trade more futures to get older.

I was okay with Kovalchuk because it was a free asset, depth, and a placeholder to force the youth to outplay him for a role. They hoped signing Kovalchuk while telling a defensive coach to change to a more offensive system was a recipe for success. We saw how that worked out.

But Kovalchuk was turned into a very specific and costly example. He didn't fit in to the system and structure, and he was healthy scratched. The young players see now they have to buy in, and star power won't earn you ice time.

Blake misread the organizational issues at the end of the 2017-18 season. That is undeniable.

But the good news is he seems willing to reevaluate and change tactics, and is rather shrewd as far as not tying himself too much to loyalty or how others may react (for example, signing Cal Petersen)

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The Kings MRI machine was still down at that time.

The Kings MRI machine is the cousin of the McDonald's shake machine

 

[Herby]

While the signing didn't work out Kovalchuk was a professional and handled the situation with grace. Wish the best for him.

Exactly. Shows you the difference between Kovalchuk and people like Dmitri Khristich and Cryin $myth.

I think Kovalchuk handled things pretty damn well, and wish him nothing but the best wherever he ends up.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The one thing I will agree with @bland on is Blake's failure to recognize issues and direction with the organization.

Looking into trading for Pacioretty and Skinner was the worst idea. Yes, the Kings were addressing scoring, but trying to trade futures when the cupboards were empty was reckless.

The Kings were missing out on a second wave of leadership. Players from 2010-14 (namely Toffoli, Pearson, Forbort, Kempe) were showing very little ownership. 2015-16 was a lack of quantity and quality. The Kings could not afford to trade more futures to get older.

I was okay with Kovalchuk because it was a free asset, depth, and a placeholder to force the youth to outplay him for a role. They hoped signing Kovalchuk while telling a defensive coach to change to a more offensive system was a recipe for success. We saw how that worked out.

But Kovalchuk was turned into a very specific and costly example. He didn't fit in to the system and structure, and he was healthy scratched. The young players see now they have to buy in, and star power won't earn you ice time.

Blake misread the organizational issues at the end of the 2017-18 season. That is undeniable.

But the good news is he seems willing to reevaluate and change tactics, and is rather shrewd as far as not tying himself too much to loyalty or how others may react (for example, signing Cal Petersen)

I agree that it was a misread. Can even call it a failure.

But it's an understandable/reasonable misread, just like the Kovalchuk signing was an understandable, reasonable signing.

Does it mean Blake is immune from criticism? Absolutely not.

Does it mean you get to attribute made-up situations and speculate on unmade trades to dig a deeper hole? I guess I'll leave that up to the user.

Now at this point our direction is signalled very clearly so there should be little doubt on moves, but after a year in which our core all performed amongst the best in the world, I can forgive a GM for taking a free swing. It's a very different situation now.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Exactly. Shows you the difference between Kovalchuk and people like Dmitri Khristich and Cryin $myth.

I think Kovalchuk handled things pretty damn well, and wish him nothing but the best wherever he ends up.

Now now, the mean streets of the South Bay obviously spooked him!

 

[TruKingFan]

The one thing I will agree with @bland on is Blake's failure to recognize issues and direction with the organization.

Looking into trading for Pacioretty and Skinner was the worst idea. Yes, the Kings were addressing scoring, but trying to trade futures when the cupboards were empty was reckless.

The Kings were missing out on a second wave of leadership. Players from 2010-14 (namely Toffoli, Pearson, Forbort, Kempe) were showing very little ownership. 2015-16 was a lack of quantity and quality. The Kings could not afford to trade more futures to get older.

I was okay with Kovalchuk because it was a free asset, depth, and a placeholder to force the youth to outplay him for a role. They hoped signing Kovalchuk while telling a defensive coach to change to a more offensive system was a recipe for success. We saw how that worked out.

But Kovalchuk was turned into a very specific and costly example. He didn't fit in to the system and structure, and he was healthy scratched. The young players see now they have to buy in, and star power won't earn you ice time.

Blake misread the organizational issues at the end of the 2017-18 season. That is undeniable.

But the good news is he seems willing to reevaluate and change tactics, and is rather shrewd as far as not tying himself too much to loyalty or how others may react (for example, signing Cal Petersen)

Looking into acquiring Pacioretty and Skinner is not the same as actually doing it. What's wrong with seeing what each would entail? When Blake realized that it would cost too much (both in terms of $$ and assets), he rightly stayed away.

He brought in Kovy to see if that would work just as well...using Uncle Phil's money (that he was absolutely authorized to do) to offer the 3rd year knowing it wouldn't be popular. But the worst that could happen was make a little dent into unused cap space and cash. BFD. Didn't work out, pay the man and say goodbye. Done.

I accept that Blake "misread" where the team really was in the summer of 2018 but even then, he's able to change course when it was obvious it wouldn't work out. Everything is never in a vacuum.

I'm hardly a Blake apologist but come on....he had to make real-time decisions and live with it and hopefully correct himself if it turns out snake eyes. So far, I think he's done that.

 

[Herby]

Now now, the mean streets of the South Bay obviously spooked him!

The biggest con-man fake in the time I've been following this team (and that's a pretty long time).

Understand it's a business, but to use your children and a supposed fear of their safety living in the South Bay so that you would have a better chance at getting another extension from the Oilers (and then straight up lying when confronted about it) was the lowest of low.

 

[King'sPawn]

Looking into acquiring Pacioretty and Skinner is not the same as actually doing it. What's wrong with seeing what each would entail? When Blake realized that it would cost too much (both in terms of $$ and assets), he rightly stayed away.

He brought in Kovy to see if that would work just as well...using Uncle Phil's money (that he was absolutely authorized to do) to offer the 3rd year knowing it wouldn't be popular. But the worst that could happen was make a little dent into unused cap space and cash. BFD. Didn't work out, pay the man and say goodbye. Done.

I accept that Blake "misread" where the team really was in the summer of 2018 but even then, he's able to change course when it was obvious it wouldn't work out. Everything is never in a vacuum.

I'm hardly a Blake apologist but come on....he had to make real-time decisions and live with it and hopefully correct himself if it turns out snake eyes. So far, I think he's done that.

Blake was willing to part with future assets to acquire Pacioretty. The trade was only not finalized because of a failure to agree on terms with him.

That is more than "looking into it."

Yes, he had to make real-time decisions, but this was after a full season of little activity to evaluate the organization.

I don't expect Blake to be perfect. But I will definitely criticize the bigger misfires when they happen.

Kovalchuk is defensible, even if it didn't work out.

Gaborik for Phaneuf is defensible, even if it didn't work out.

Actively trying to trade futures for Pacioretty when that's what Lombardi did and set the organization back a few years is not defensible. At all. His saving grace was not backing down on his contract offer, but it still was a gross misstep on the organization direction.

 

[Faterson]

Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time..

He ended his career this spring, aged almost 40, and the final thing he ever did on the ice was to score the game-winning shootout goal as the captain of Slovakia's team at the World Championships.

 

[Statto]

It was the worst fit imaginable, and it was their only kick at that can. Not only should they have known it didn't work, they gave him a year more than any other suitor despite the fact that everybody and their brother knew he wanted LA for his wife's sake. They gave him a NMC so they had no outs in the event that what was never going to work didn't work.

For any married player, that stays married, the wife will get a huge say on where any player ends up. So let’s not use that in the argument. It’s also fair enough, btw, given how much time they spend on the road.

 

[Statto]

I don’t know if people remember but when Lombardi first came along ownership needed selling on the need for a full and proper rebuild.

I believe it is highly likely that when Blake took over that he would have been asked to make to see if he could drag one more run out of the roster. If that’s the case it very much would explain the Kovy signing, as well as the reason they looked so hard at Patches.

If he was asked to do that he chose the approach that would do no damage to the future. From the moment they decided to go full rebuild Blake hasn’t missed a beat (WD was the perfect coach to ensure a nice draft pick) so it looks to me he had a plan already in mind. Blake would have had to wait for ownership to approve a rebuild, I’m certain of that.

Of course I don’t know if it’s true. However it’s certainly possible, if not probable, and fits with how ownership has approached things in the past. Given how well Blake has restocked the prospect pool he’s definitely been thinking about the rebuild from day 1. So far in my book he’s doing a decent, if not a perfect job. Most importantly the moves he’s made have not compromised the future.

 

[Herby]

I think Blake was faked out by 2017-2018 which was one of the flukiest Kings seasons of all-time, that was an awful roster that somehow made the playoffs because Kopitar, Doughty and Quick all had arguably career years. And he made very poor decisions based on thinking that the team was a contender and it set the Kings back in numerous ways. Most significantly losing out on what should have been a Top 10 (If not top 5 pick) and leading to the accumulation of even more dead cap hits in Phaneuf and Kovalchuk and a reluctance to move on from many players who clearly should have been moved on from, and probably would have been had that season played out differently.

It's also fair to say that Blake inherited one of the worst situations in the NHL of any new GM hires going back a long time. The Kings were burdened with bad contracts and had a farm system that was not just bad, but probably the worst in the NHL. And now even missing out on that 2018 pick and lottery bad luck last year the Kings have a loaded system.