Kid seems lost on the ice

[Ducks4Cup]

The number one reason kids quit sports is because of their parents.
I’d express your concerns to the coach and then stay away from any coaching at all. Get him to the rink any and every time you can and be the biggest cheerleader

 

[Yukon Joe]

What the heck - I'm going to post this to see if coaches have any suggestions.

I'm one of the coaches on a U13 team. We're a Tier 2 team - so reasonably skilled and serious but not the best of the best. This is also not my kid, but I do a lot of work with the defencemen typically.

We have this one D-man who seems "lost on the ice" - he's just playing all over the ice. It's definitely costing us goals. Now the kid did miss about the first 6 weeks of the season due to a legit injury (and where we did do a fair bit of practice time on positioning that he missed), and he is a first-year U13 player (so he'd be age 11). It's gotten to where it's a topic of conversation amongst the coaches. My own kid (who is also a D) does not like playing with this kid because he's just all over the place.

Our last game this past weekend was more of the same - his being wildly out of position directly led to at least 3 goals against (and more scoring opportunities our goalie stopped). But I can't just keep saying the same things to him - he's only a kid, I want him to enjoy playing hockey (and don't want to scare him off).

He's not a bad kid and definitely has some speed and skill. he probably could get away with being a wildman out on the ice in U11 with his speed, but by moving up an age category the kids are bigger and faster and it just is not working for him or the team.

Any suggestions out there from a coaching perspective?


The one possibility is to try moving him to wing where there's less responsibility, but we don't exactly have a surplus of players wanting to play D, and this kid does want to play D. We could also try to put much more obvious "rules" in place for him (like never go to the other side, or never take the puck in deep) but I'm not sure thats a great answer either. I definitely don't like the idea of telling defence that they can never try to score - sounds like a good way to scare kids away from the position.

 

[MeHateHe]

Any suggestions out there from a coaching perspective?

It feels like coaches at that level need some teaching experience. Kids (adults too, but for now) have different learning styles. Some are visual learners. Some have to understand the concepts before putting it into practice. Some have to learn by doing.

Ask the kid's parents to find out how they learn stuff at school. Do they need a lot of one-on-one time? Do they need to be shown on a screen? Can you draw things on a map for the kid to see? Do you have to make a checklist or set hard-and-fast rules? By 12, most kids' parents will have some sense of how their kid learns new skills and should be able to give advice.

 

[Slats432]

What the heck - I'm going to post this to see if coaches have any suggestions.

I'm one of the coaches on a U13 team. We're a Tier 2 team - so reasonably skilled and serious but not the best of the best. This is also not my kid, but I do a lot of work with the defencemen typically.

We have this one D-man who seems "lost on the ice" - he's just playing all over the ice. It's definitely costing us goals. Now the kid did miss about the first 6 weeks of the season due to a legit injury (and where we did do a fair bit of practice time on positioning that he missed), and he is a first-year U13 player (so he'd be age 11). It's gotten to where it's a topic of conversation amongst the coaches. My own kid (who is also a D) does not like playing with this kid because he's just all over the place.

Our last game this past weekend was more of the same - his being wildly out of position directly led to at least 3 goals against (and more scoring opportunities our goalie stopped). But I can't just keep saying the same things to him - he's only a kid, I want him to enjoy playing hockey (and don't want to scare him off).

He's not a bad kid and definitely has some speed and skill. he probably could get away with being a wildman out on the ice in U11 with his speed, but by moving up an age category the kids are bigger and faster and it just is not working for him or the team.

Any suggestions out there from a coaching perspective?


The one possibility is to try moving him to wing where there's less responsibility, but we don't exactly have a surplus of players wanting to play D, and this kid does want to play D. We could also try to put much more obvious "rules" in place for him (like never go to the other side, or never take the puck in deep) but I'm not sure thats a great answer either. I definitely don't like the idea of telling defence that they can never try to score - sounds like a good way to scare kids away from the position.

I can't give any insight with so little information. If he has the puck and goes deep, nothing wrong with that. (Forwards cover your d) If he is going deep to help the forecheck, then he should be told the clear rules of defense. (Holding the blue) Pretty basic stuff. Things like piston, angling, not chasing when your defensive partner is already engaged, should be part of the basic understanding.

 

[Yukon Joe]

It feels like coaches at that level need some teaching experience. Kids (adults too, but for now) have different learning styles. Some are visual learners. Some have to understand the concepts before putting it into practice. Some have to learn by doing.

OK, so A: I am not an educator, and B: this goes well beyond coaching hockey, so I don't want to go too deep into the weeds here.

My reading has been that the whole "styles of learning" (which I definitely remember reading about even 20 years ago) doesn't really have any scientific backing behind it.

Just some basic googling here's a decent article from U of Michigan on the topic if you're curious.

Roundup on Research: The myth of “learning styles” | Online Teaching

onlineteaching.umich.edu

And if someone is an educator and believes strongly in "styles of learning" then by all means go ahead and try to argue that point.

 

[MeHateHe]

OK, so A: I am not an educator, and B: this goes well beyond coaching hockey, so I don't want to go too deep into the weeds here.

My reading has been that the whole "styles of learning" (which I definitely remember reading about even 20 years ago) doesn't really have any scientific backing behind it.

Just some basic googling here's a decent article from U of Michigan on the topic if you're curious.

Roundup on Research: The myth of “learning styles” | Online Teaching

onlineteaching.umich.edu

And if someone is an educator and believes strongly in "styles of learning" then by all means go ahead and try to argue that point.

So you flag an issue you're having with a kid who you're having trouble getting through to, and I bring up a suggestion that you talk to the kid's parent to see what works with that kid, and your response is to throw out a lit review? Huh.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I can't give any insight with so little information. If he has the puck and goes deep, nothing wrong with that. (Forwards cover your d) If he is going deep to help the forecheck, then he should be told the clear rules of defense. (Holding the blue) Pretty basic stuff. Things like piston, angling, not chasing when your defensive partner is already engaged, should be part of the basic understanding.

So I always want to hold back a bit because he's not my kid, so not really my story to tell.

I agree - D can/should carry the puck in. As I hinted at, it can be hard to get kids to play D sometimes, every kid loves scoring, so you don't want to tell your D they can't score. I don't think the names Bobby Orr or Paul Coffee, means anything to kids born in 2012-2013 but a scoring D-man is definitely a thing to be encouraged. I literally tell all my kids that if you have the puck and a lane to go for it - just hustle back when you don't have it.

For this kid though - in the offensive zone it's going deep into the zone hoping to get the puck even though he doesn't have it. In the defensive zone it's puck-watching and trying to play the puck - even though it's his partner's responsibility (and the partner may already be engaged).

Basic understanding stuff (I'm not a super complicated coach!).

Like I'll tell him "You're right defence - stay on your side, trust in your partner" but he always has an excuse why he's on the left side.

But I want to emphasize - nice kid. He's not telling coaches to "get lost" or anything. He's just not taking in what he's being told.

 

[Yukon Joe]

So you flag an issue you're having with a kid who you're having trouble getting through to, and I bring up a suggestion that you talk to the kid's parent to see what works with that kid, and your response is to throw out a lit review? Huh.

I thought you might find it interesting.

If not, that's fine.

LIke I said - it goes well beyond just coaching hockey.

 

[trailsmom]

What the heck - I'm going to post this to see if coaches have any suggestions.

I'm one of the coaches on a U13 team. We're a Tier 2 team - so reasonably skilled and serious but not the best of the best. This is also not my kid, but I do a lot of work with the defencemen typically.

We have this one D-man who seems "lost on the ice" - he's just playing all over the ice. It's definitely costing us goals. Now the kid did miss about the first 6 weeks of the season due to a legit injury (and where we did do a fair bit of practice time on positioning that he missed), and he is a first-year U13 player (so he'd be age 11). It's gotten to where it's a topic of conversation amongst the coaches. My own kid (who is also a D) does not like playing with this kid because he's just all over the place.

Our last game this past weekend was more of the same - his being wildly out of position directly led to at least 3 goals against (and more scoring opportunities our goalie stopped). But I can't just keep saying the same things to him - he's only a kid, I want him to enjoy playing hockey (and don't want to scare him off).

He's not a bad kid and definitely has some speed and skill. he probably could get away with being a wildman out on the ice in U11 with his speed, but by moving up an age category the kids are bigger and faster and it just is not working for him or the team.

Any suggestions out there from a coaching perspective?


The one possibility is to try moving him to wing where there's less responsibility, but we don't exactly have a surplus of players wanting to play D, and this kid does want to play D. We could also try to put much more obvious "rules" in place for him (like never go to the other side, or never take the puck in deep) but I'm not sure thats a great answer either. I definitely don't like the idea of telling defence that they can never try to score - sounds like a good way to scare kids away from the position.

Just a mom here but I had to reply.

My son who is lost on the ice currently also missed 6 weeks of positioning practices. He was shared goalie but the other goalie broke his wrist. This was last season however. I just think keep the kids in their age group unless it’s absolutely obvious they are dominant.

 

[trailsmom]

So I always want to hold back a bit because he's not my kid, so not really my story to tell.

I agree - D can/should carry the puck in. As I hinted at, it can be hard to get kids to play D sometimes, every kid loves scoring, so you don't want to tell your D they can't score. I don't think the names Bobby Orr or Paul Coffee, means anything to kids born in 2012-2013 but a scoring D-man is definitely a thing to be encouraged. I literally tell all my kids that if you have the puck and a lane to go for it - just hustle back when you don't have it.

For this kid though - in the offensive zone it's going deep into the zone hoping to get the puck even though he doesn't have it. In the defensive zone it's puck-watching and trying to play the puck - even though it's his partner's responsibility (and the partner may already be engaged).

Basic understanding stuff (I'm not a super complicated coach!).

Like I'll tell him "You're right defence - stay on your side, trust in your partner" but he always has an excuse why he's on the left side.

But I want to emphasize - nice kid. He's not telling coaches to "get lost" or anything. He's just not taking in what he's being told.

Ok as an observer and I love my son when I say this. Sometimes he forgets his left from his right. Maybe gets caught up in the moment and goes to the wrong side. When the coaches call it out “you’re left” he looks very upset with himself mostly. I never say anything at all because he has to figure out his way of learning left and right. He’s 10 and it’s Tier 3 so there’s wiggle room and I truly believe he finds his own system to learn this stuff.

 

[trailsmom]

Thank you everyone here for your reply. Just wanted to update we’ve had two games since I last posted. They’ve moved him to try D left and then Centre man last game. He actually functions ok with this but still lost at times. His coaches are really good and I trust them, they help him. I can hear because I do the clock or scorekeeper almost every game

I’ve let go completely and shifted to supporting his outdoor hockey dreams. He is so happy to be out there and has a friend on his team to go with. They plan it. They go for hours and it’s great. I’m just over the moon to see him this happy doing an activity

 

[trailsmom]

So I always want to hold back a bit because he's not my kid, so not really my story to tell.

I agree - D can/should carry the puck in. As I hinted at, it can be hard to get kids to play D sometimes, every kid loves scoring, so you don't want to tell your D they can't score. I don't think the names Bobby Orr or Paul Coffee, means anything to kids born in 2012-2013 but a scoring D-man is definitely a thing to be encouraged. I literally tell all my kids that if you have the puck and a lane to go for it - just hustle back when you don't have it.

For this kid though - in the offensive zone it's going deep into the zone hoping to get the puck even though he doesn't have it. In the defensive zone it's puck-watching and trying to play the puck - even though it's his partner's responsibility (and the partner may already be engaged).

Basic understanding stuff (I'm not a super complicated coach!).

Like I'll tell him "You're right defence - stay on your side, trust in your partner" but he always has an excuse why he's on the left side.

But I want to emphasize - nice kid. He's not telling coaches to "get lost" or anything. He's just not taking in what he's being told.

Maybe he’s slightly embarrassed. Maybe try giving more specifics like if he’s right handed (does he play baseball or racket sports). “Gotta stay on the side you throw a baseball with”. Or something that resonates with him. Just an idea. We take for granted kids know basics when he might not easily know left from right.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

Maybe he’s slightly embarrassed. Maybe try giving more specifics like if he’s right handed (does he play baseball or racket sports). “Gotta stay on the side you throw a baseball with”. Or something that resonates with him. Just an idea. We take for granted kids know basics when he might not easily know left from right.

Even if a kid doesn’t know their technical left from right, they should understand where they are spatially. So I think saying “your side” should be pretty effective for a young D man. If you maybe draw a diagram of a rink on paper and say, “If you start here, then this is your side of the ice.”

One of the most basic things you teach a new D man is that in their own zone, they are responsible for their corner. If the puck goes in their corner, they chase it. If the puck goes into the opposite corner, they cover a player in front of the net (who is waiting for a pass to the middle or rebound). It’s almost as if there’s a force field going right down the middle of the ice, keeping you from going to the other side.

Most of the time on offence, same thing. You’re at the blue line on “your side”. Your job is to try to keep the puck in the zone, usually along the boards. And then of course you’re ready to backtrack when your team loses possession.

My son played D his first year in House League, and it was really good for him. The defence has to go back for the puck a lot, so they get to play the puck. By comparison, a player on the wing who’s not a good skater can go a whole game and never touch the puck.

 

[Frank Drebin]

So I always want to hold back a bit because he's not my kid, so not really my story to tell.

I agree - D can/should carry the puck in. As I hinted at, it can be hard to get kids to play D sometimes, every kid loves scoring, so you don't want to tell your D they can't score. I don't think the names Bobby Orr or Paul Coffee, means anything to kids born in 2012-2013 but a scoring D-man is definitely a thing to be encouraged. I literally tell all my kids that if you have the puck and a lane to go for it - just hustle back when you don't have it.

For this kid though - in the offensive zone it's going deep into the zone hoping to get the puck even though he doesn't have it. In the defensive zone it's puck-watching and trying to play the puck - even though it's his partner's responsibility (and the partner may already be engaged).

Basic understanding stuff (I'm not a super complicated coach!).

Like I'll tell him "You're right defence - stay on your side, trust in your partner" but he always has an excuse why he's on the left side.

But I want to emphasize - nice kid. He's not telling coaches to "get lost" or anything. He's just not taking in what he's being told.

Give him a one shift challenge, to do for you.

“I want one, just one shift where you stay on the left side of the ice. Can you do that for me next shift?”

Then genuine praise and thanks when he does it. “Now you don’t have to play like that all the time but in close games where protecting the lead is super important it’s important that you can play like that ok?”


Then just gradually try remind him when it’s important for him to play his position. He’s still probably going to roam a lot but he might not when asked not to. Heck nhl players still have bad habits

Every kid is different and he may not respond, but generally that’s how i try “coaching “ the kids

Lots of chat on the bench too. “Oh, you see johnny got caught there when he tried to do this….oh look at johnny anticipating the play there that’s exactly what i want you to do, etc.”

 

[Yukon Joe]

Give him a one shift challenge, to do for you.

“I want one, just one shift where you stay on the left side of the ice. Can you do that for me next shift?”

Then genuine praise and thanks when he does it. “Now you don’t have to play like that all the time but in close games where protecting the lead is super important it’s important that you can play like that ok?”


Then just gradually try remind him when it’s important for him to play his position. He’s still probably going to roam a lot but he might not when asked not to. Heck nhl players still have bad habits

Every kid is different and he may not respond, but generally that’s how i try “coaching “ the kids

Lots of chat on the bench too. “Oh, you see johnny got caught there when he tried to do this….oh look at johnny anticipating the play there that’s exactly what i want you to do, etc.”

So this isn't a bad idea.

Something I do try to do, but don't always succeed, is to point out as many positives (Hey you did the right there there, and look how it paid off!) as I do negatives (okay so see what happened here, and so next time try to...)

The trouble though is even playing a really really simple game D men shouldn't rigidly stay on their "side". If it's a 1 on 1 or 2 on 1 the first guy back should cover, or if it's a potential icing the first d-man back needs to skate to the puck even if it's their off-side. We had that happen maybe twice last time, kids thought it was icing, nobody skated back, opposition raced in and got the puck.

But yeah - some stuff to think of.