This is like parsing out which pile of dog shit is best.
Kevyn Adams GM thread
- Thread starter BUCKSHOT
- Start date
This is like parsing out which pile of dog shit is best.
SabresFan26
Registered User
Well we didn’t have much to choose from
Let’s hope the next one is significantly better. Give us our Brandon Beane!
Ace
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- Oct 29, 2015
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Listen…in any normal organization I’d agree with this obvious point 100 times out of 100.
But this organization is special.
Is it that hard to believe Pegula would let a lame duck GM make any move? No. Because he’s an idiot. The hard part to believe has nothing to do with Pegula allowing him to make a major move. It has everything to do with Pegula being too incompetent to move on from Adams either way.
Ace
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2015
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Which, even in regards to literal dog shit in the yard, isn’t that difficult to do.
Adams is the worst.
I'm trying to find a parallel to Adams at GM in some other sphere of large-scale organization that won't get me banned, because I keep coming back to governments.
Marissa Mayer with Yahoo - overpaying key people too soon among other fiascos.
jd1970
Registered User
One more season like this, and he'll be trading Dahlin for a pick and a prospect.
One more season of this and players like Dahlin and Tage will be asking out (and probably more players as well).
It's all been said, and I'm preaching to the choir, but.
I really took issue with Kevyn's interview on Schopp and the Bulldog yesterday. He went into how disappointed they were in the results of this season and how the 13 game streak was his fault very mechanically, just ticking off the things he's "supposed" to say. He became more animated for his deep dive into that streak. He tells us how their expected goals were even or positive in 6 of those 13 games, so maybe they were unlucky and should have won those, and that they really didn't play too terribly during the streak.
First, that is not true at all - they were dreadful for many of those 13 games. The game on long island, maybe 3rd loss in a row? Was absolutely disgusting. It was the worst hockey game I've seen a non-last-place Sabres team play. The Colorado game speaks for itself - it was so bad, the media bullied him into making an appearance to explain himself, and he spent the whole time derisive and combative to any suggestion that it wasn't beneath him to be there in that moment. "the playoffs are not made or missed in December." Oh yeah, Kevyn? Then why is that streak the first thing you bring up every time you open your mouth to analyze the season?
His team promptly lost their next 7, including the infamous game in Montreal where they follow up a rousing visit from the owner (no changes are coming, the answer is in the room) with a 6-1 drubbing. Kevyn, there are some pretty strong signals being sent out there that maybe you should get off your ass and do something.
Second, this expected goals cop-out is extremely cheap. It seems like it exists only to float the idea that the Sabres front office is "advanced" and uses "metrics." I love the expected goal stat - I once tried to develop it myself before discovering it already existed. It is a great tool that, once you collect sufficient data, will tell you more about the next 40 games a team will play than any other stat you have accumulated at that moment. But single game expected goal stats are completely meaningless in isolation, they say nothing more about the results of the next game you'll play than a coinflip. And 6 isn't even half! He is glaringly misusing a stat outside of its proper regime as a cop-out for the team's performance.
And Kevyn, why do you get to flip the results of the games where you out-chance the opponent according to xGF%? Shouldn't you also flip the games where you were out-chanced, but still won? There were 20 of those. Why do you get to flip those games and only those games and judge your season that way, against other teams, who aren't allowed to flip any of their games? You were out-xGF%-ed ~46 times this year and won 20 of those games. Your cumulative xGF% is 27th. Your team finished 26th. That's it. You are where you deserve to be.
But you know what? Fine. Take out those six losses. Better yet, take out all 13! And don't let any other teams take out any of their losses, or games where they were robbed by the deserve-to-win-o-meter. Congrats, you played the rest of them at a 90 point pace! You have STILL missed the playoffs in both conference anyway with that outrageous and fantastical crutch you are employing to make yourself look better.
Thank god they stopped winning when Reimer and the shooters went cold, it would have been beyond insufferable to hear him tout the play of his team against backup goalies and teams that were getting ready for the playoffs, or running for the bus (Boston), long after the pressure of the games mattering for the Sabres had subsided. They still played terribly that whole time.
Kevyn Adams talks about this streak like a guy who aimed at the second wild card spot should everything outside of his control go perfectly. Like his desired outcome wasn't to be great, just to be okay, better than 6 eastern teams but not much more than that. He has a pattern of doing this. Two years ago, Kevyn's team got to 91 points. They did this with 12 skaters hitting a career high in goals, points, or shooting percentage (~8 of those skaters still have career marks in those stats that season). So, a huge statistical outlier got him within a win of the playoffs. Then, his permanent marker 2nd line RW got hurt weeks before the roster shuffling phase of the offseason even began. He did not care about this, and did not address that injury, let alone the potential that guys might not shoot 20% the next season, that career bests are not guaranteed. Predictably, they could not score. But he made a point to tell us more than once how awesome his summer at the lake was, after he added a 6D and 7D and called it a job well done. We all saw this happening in real time, but he didn't. That season was his magnum opus, and we have declined for 730 days since. In each season that followed, Kevyn spoke in couched terms that plainly displayed that his goal was to "compete", not to be great but to hover around 8th/9th/10th in the conference. When you aim this low, and catch an injury or a bad bounce, you are going to miss.
Why can't he start with a 91 point team and shoot for something better? Every team that is not in year 1 or 2 of a rebuild should be functionally capable of becoming a 50 win, ~105 point team. I have seen so many random, boring, unremarkably competent Wild/Blues/Kings/Rangers/Islanders teams over the years put up ~104 points just by being NORMAL and having NORMAL GOALS and working towards them. And when you shoot for a season like this, and fall 5 wins short? You still give yourself a shot. The Sabres should have been gunning for a 2022-23 NJD-like season each of the last two years, they should have been salivating at the thought of having a season like this. Think of how fun that would be, how much more fun than even the 2022-23 season could have been. They should have wanted this so bad it was physically painful. When Alex Tuch or Tage Thompson or Rasmus Dahlin talk to the media, I hear this desire. And frustration that they know deep down that they don't have it. I have never heard anything like this from Kevyn Adams.
What I wouldn't give to hear the media go at him for his flimsy goals. Why are you like this, Kevyn? Why do you tiptoe so cautiously around saying that you need to have your team be very good, even great? Is it because you know that you'll never get this job again, and you need to sell the slooooooooow build as long as you can? Or is it because Terry wants to minimize spending as much as possible? What other explanation can there be for your lack of urgency, for setting a record for available cap space over multiple years? Turns out your plan of filling that up with Quinn/Sammy/Levi contracts got blown up. That was NOT the reason you didn't care to spend. Tell us what it is, you prick. Tell us why you led us along to yank the rug time and time again.
GFY, get your hands away from my hockey team for the love of God. I don't want to hear it. We are DONE. You sicken us, Terry sickens us. You are killing a franchise and we are watching it in real time.
"I should have done more during the losing streak probably"
As Ace has pointed out, YOU own the THREE longest non-tank losing streaks in franchise history. You didn't learn shit. You will do the same thing again next year when your garbage roster flounders and flails. You should not get a 4th chance at fixing a losing streak, or a sixth chance at having a real season. You got hired, you watched Montreal play in a cup final, blow up, finish last, draft a player who isn't impactful yet, draft top 5 two more times, and then steal your spot in the playoffs, which you missed by a mile.
One way or another, after locker room cleanout, I know I will never see or hear this man again.
I really took issue with Kevyn's interview on Schopp and the Bulldog yesterday. He went into how disappointed they were in the results of this season and how the 13 game streak was his fault very mechanically, just ticking off the things he's "supposed" to say. He became more animated for his deep dive into that streak. He tells us how their expected goals were even or positive in 6 of those 13 games, so maybe they were unlucky and should have won those, and that they really didn't play too terribly during the streak.
First, that is not true at all - they were dreadful for many of those 13 games. The game on long island, maybe 3rd loss in a row? Was absolutely disgusting. It was the worst hockey game I've seen a non-last-place Sabres team play. The Colorado game speaks for itself - it was so bad, the media bullied him into making an appearance to explain himself, and he spent the whole time derisive and combative to any suggestion that it wasn't beneath him to be there in that moment. "the playoffs are not made or missed in December." Oh yeah, Kevyn? Then why is that streak the first thing you bring up every time you open your mouth to analyze the season?
His team promptly lost their next 7, including the infamous game in Montreal where they follow up a rousing visit from the owner (no changes are coming, the answer is in the room) with a 6-1 drubbing. Kevyn, there are some pretty strong signals being sent out there that maybe you should get off your ass and do something.
Second, this expected goals cop-out is extremely cheap. It seems like it exists only to float the idea that the Sabres front office is "advanced" and uses "metrics." I love the expected goal stat - I once tried to develop it myself before discovering it already existed. It is a great tool that, once you collect sufficient data, will tell you more about the next 40 games a team will play than any other stat you have accumulated at that moment. But single game expected goal stats are completely meaningless in isolation, they say nothing more about the results of the next game you'll play than a coinflip. And 6 isn't even half! He is glaringly misusing a stat outside of its proper regime as a cop-out for the team's performance.
And Kevyn, why do you get to flip the results of the games where you out-chance the opponent according to xGF%? Shouldn't you also flip the games where you were out-chanced, but still won? There were 20 of those. Why do you get to flip those games and only those games and judge your season that way, against other teams, who aren't allowed to flip any of their games? You were out-xGF%-ed ~46 times this year and won 20 of those games. Your cumulative xGF% is 27th. Your team finished 26th. That's it. You are where you deserve to be.
But you know what? Fine. Take out those six losses. Better yet, take out all 13! And don't let any other teams take out any of their losses, or games where they were robbed by the deserve-to-win-o-meter. Congrats, you played the rest of them at a 90 point pace! You have STILL missed the playoffs in both conference anyway with that outrageous and fantastical crutch you are employing to make yourself look better.
Thank god they stopped winning when Reimer and the shooters went cold, it would have been beyond insufferable to hear him tout the play of his team against backup goalies and teams that were getting ready for the playoffs, or running for the bus (Boston), long after the pressure of the games mattering for the Sabres had subsided. They still played terribly that whole time.
Kevyn Adams talks about this streak like a guy who aimed at the second wild card spot should everything outside of his control go perfectly. Like his desired outcome wasn't to be great, just to be okay, better than 6 eastern teams but not much more than that. He has a pattern of doing this. Two years ago, Kevyn's team got to 91 points. They did this with 12 skaters hitting a career high in goals, points, or shooting percentage (~8 of those skaters still have career marks in those stats that season). So, a huge statistical outlier got him within a win of the playoffs. Then, his permanent marker 2nd line RW got hurt weeks before the roster shuffling phase of the offseason even began. He did not care about this, and did not address that injury, let alone the potential that guys might not shoot 20% the next season, that career bests are not guaranteed. Predictably, they could not score. But he made a point to tell us more than once how awesome his summer at the lake was, after he added a 6D and 7D and called it a job well done. We all saw this happening in real time, but he didn't. That season was his magnum opus, and we have declined for 730 days since. In each season that followed, Kevyn spoke in couched terms that plainly displayed that his goal was to "compete", not to be great but to hover around 8th/9th/10th in the conference. When you aim this low, and catch an injury or a bad bounce, you are going to miss.
Why can't he start with a 91 point team and shoot for something better? Every team that is not in year 1 or 2 of a rebuild should be functionally capable of becoming a 50 win, ~105 point team. I have seen so many random, boring, unremarkably competent Wild/Blues/Kings/Rangers/Islanders teams over the years put up ~104 points just by being NORMAL and having NORMAL GOALS and working towards them. And when you shoot for a season like this, and fall 5 wins short? You still give yourself a shot. The Sabres should have been gunning for a 2022-23 NJD-like season each of the last two years, they should have been salivating at the thought of having a season like this. Think of how fun that would be, how much more fun than even the 2022-23 season could have been. They should have wanted this so bad it was physically painful. When Alex Tuch or Tage Thompson or Rasmus Dahlin talk to the media, I hear this desire. And frustration that they know deep down that they don't have it. I have never heard anything like this from Kevyn Adams.
What I wouldn't give to hear the media go at him for his flimsy goals. Why are you like this, Kevyn? Why do you tiptoe so cautiously around saying that you need to have your team be very good, even great? Is it because you know that you'll never get this job again, and you need to sell the slooooooooow build as long as you can? Or is it because Terry wants to minimize spending as much as possible? What other explanation can there be for your lack of urgency, for setting a record for available cap space over multiple years? Turns out your plan of filling that up with Quinn/Sammy/Levi contracts got blown up. That was NOT the reason you didn't care to spend. Tell us what it is, you prick. Tell us why you led us along to yank the rug time and time again.
GFY, get your hands away from my hockey team for the love of God. I don't want to hear it. We are DONE. You sicken us, Terry sickens us. You are killing a franchise and we are watching it in real time.
"I should have done more during the losing streak probably"
As Ace has pointed out, YOU own the THREE longest non-tank losing streaks in franchise history. You didn't learn shit. You will do the same thing again next year when your garbage roster flounders and flails. You should not get a 4th chance at fixing a losing streak, or a sixth chance at having a real season. You got hired, you watched Montreal play in a cup final, blow up, finish last, draft a player who isn't impactful yet, draft top 5 two more times, and then steal your spot in the playoffs, which you missed by a mile.
One way or another, after locker room cleanout, I know I will never see or hear this man again.
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debaser66
Registered User
- Mar 10, 2012
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Yes not any off them deserves a nostalgic blind eye. All of the GMs Pegula hired sucked.
debaser66
Registered User
- Mar 10, 2012
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He has to overpay in assets because he moved himself into a corner with the moves he did and didn't do.
Drafting and hordind similar types of players. Being up to the cap with wrong mix of players.
Other GMs must be circling like vultures waiting to feast on the wannabe GM.
He brought this all on himself there are no excuses.
What was he thinking bringing in a D like Bryam???
May Day 10
Registered User
This is an excellent post.
Completely agree, especially with the low bar adams sets. That drives me nuts. Their ultimate goal is to be 16th in the league and snake a 2nd wild card spot. That really doesn't get them anywhere as those WC teams are constantly churning each year. Getting into the top 10 in the league, especially the top 3 in the division should be the first goal and stated. The competition in the division is tough. Class organizations and we have our clown car with the ultimate goal of someday having the privilege of getting swept in the first round by one of them.
The entire organization needs to portray lofty goals. Winning should be the only thing that matters and it would get into the lockerroom. I cringe when I hear them talk about someone who "wants to be here". I dont care if a player wants to be here. I want players who want to win. It should be a 1-track binary thing.
Everything the organization does is set a low bar, excuse-making, and stall tacticing. It's no wonder why the team plays and behaves the way it does. It's all like a ruse to keep certain people employed and thing heading the way they are.
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ValJamesDuex
Old School
- Nov 4, 2021
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Adams has A LOT of hard decisions and work to do. If he survives the wrath he HAS to make moves to improve the Power Play and special teams! That is a player move(s) and a competent assistant coach to run it. Vaclav Prospal in Rochester makes too much sense, but do they let Appert go ? 
At the same time Wilford and Bales can go too but are they going to let Lindy choose his assistants finally with one year left on his deal and Appert mentioned as heir apparent? The holes this team digs in beyond comprehension.
At the same time Wilford and Bales can go too but are they going to let Lindy choose his assistants finally with one year left on his deal and Appert mentioned as heir apparent? The holes this team digs in beyond comprehension.
May Day 10
Registered User
Appert isn't going anywhere. That's the super smart succession plan of head coaches who won't rock the boat. Lindy in '25-26, appert in '26--'29, and Leone until '32.
TehDoak
Chili that wants to be here
- Feb 3, 2015
- 4,247
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I just want to add that of those positive xGF% games during the 13 game losing streak only 2 of them weren’t due to score effects. The rest were all 3rd period rallies after the opponent had taken their foot off our necks and had started coasting and going into a defensive shell, just running out the clock, allowing us to fruitlessly rack up xGF while not really making much xGF for themselves.
So Kevyn doesn’t even understand the basic concept of score effects. He just looked at the xGF% of each game and decided that should decide who won and lost.
jc17
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- Jun 14, 2013
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Gabrielor
Registered User
CaliSabresfan24
Registered User
I thought I somewhere that he'll speak to the media tomorrow afternoon..
Edit:
Here ya go.
Bravo! This is the Magnum Opus of GM critiques on pro-sports discussion forums. You nailed it.
toddkaz
Registered User
- Nov 25, 2022
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Adams and Ruff both have 1 year left on their contracts. I don't expect Pegula to waste money anymore.Adams has A LOT of hard decisions and work to do. If he survives the wrath he HAS to make moves to improve the Power Play and special teams! That is a player move(s) and a competent assistant coach to run it. Vaclav Prospal in Rochester makes too much sense, but do they let Appert go ?
Prior to this season, in the post-expansion era of the NHL (back to 1967-68), there were 6 general managers who made it through their first 5 seasons with one team, without making the playoffs. They are:
Max McNab, Washington. McNab was not the Caps 1st GM. He took over in year two and held the job for 6 full seasons before being fired early in year 7. Incredibly, he was later hired by the Devils, where he also never made the playoffs. 11 years total, no playoffs.
Eddie Johnson, Pittsburgh. The Pens never made the playoffs in Johnson's 5 years there, from 83-84 through 87-88. He then was hired by Hartford, where he did make the playoffs 3 years in a row (though the Whalers weren't that good in those years).
Mike Milbury, New York Islanders. Milbury did not make the playoffs until his 7th season on the Island. He did not work as a GM again after his time in NY.
Don Waddell, Atlanta. Wadell was the GM of the expansion Thrashers. They did not make the playoffs until year 7. He eventually redeemed his reputation with Carolina and now with Columbus.
Doug McLean, Columbus. McLean was the Blue Jackets 1st GM and never made the playoffs in 6 years. He has not worked as a GM since.
Steve Yzerman, Detroit. The Wings had not made the playoffs in 5 years under Yzerman (now 6).
These 6 GM's can be split into 3 groups. 1.) Guys who worked for expansion teams (McNab, Waddell, McLean). 2.) A local legend who built a great team as a GM in another city and is now getting every benefit of the doubt (Yzerman). 3.) Two men considered among the worst GM's in history (Milbury and Johnson).
The final book on Yzerman in Detroit, has not been written. In relation to the other 5 on the list, what's notable is that none ended up having success with those teams, and only one (Waddell) went on to have any significant success with another team.
Kevyn Adams and Bill Armstrong in Utah are now GMs 7 and 8 on this list.
Kevyn Adams is not the future of the Buffalo Sabres. It would be good if Pegula realized this today and fired him. Every day that passes with Adams as GM, is a day that delays moving on to a GM who, at least potentially, gets it right.
Max McNab, Washington. McNab was not the Caps 1st GM. He took over in year two and held the job for 6 full seasons before being fired early in year 7. Incredibly, he was later hired by the Devils, where he also never made the playoffs. 11 years total, no playoffs.
Eddie Johnson, Pittsburgh. The Pens never made the playoffs in Johnson's 5 years there, from 83-84 through 87-88. He then was hired by Hartford, where he did make the playoffs 3 years in a row (though the Whalers weren't that good in those years).
Mike Milbury, New York Islanders. Milbury did not make the playoffs until his 7th season on the Island. He did not work as a GM again after his time in NY.
Don Waddell, Atlanta. Wadell was the GM of the expansion Thrashers. They did not make the playoffs until year 7. He eventually redeemed his reputation with Carolina and now with Columbus.
Doug McLean, Columbus. McLean was the Blue Jackets 1st GM and never made the playoffs in 6 years. He has not worked as a GM since.
Steve Yzerman, Detroit. The Wings had not made the playoffs in 5 years under Yzerman (now 6).
These 6 GM's can be split into 3 groups. 1.) Guys who worked for expansion teams (McNab, Waddell, McLean). 2.) A local legend who built a great team as a GM in another city and is now getting every benefit of the doubt (Yzerman). 3.) Two men considered among the worst GM's in history (Milbury and Johnson).
The final book on Yzerman in Detroit, has not been written. In relation to the other 5 on the list, what's notable is that none ended up having success with those teams, and only one (Waddell) went on to have any significant success with another team.
Kevyn Adams and Bill Armstrong in Utah are now GMs 7 and 8 on this list.
Kevyn Adams is not the future of the Buffalo Sabres. It would be good if Pegula realized this today and fired him. Every day that passes with Adams as GM, is a day that delays moving on to a GM who, at least potentially, gets it right.
I know what you mean. But, of course, keeping Adams and Ruff will be an enormous waste of money.
toddkaz
Registered User
- Nov 25, 2022
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Wait until Buffalo makes the playoffs next year in spite of Adams and Adams will claim his 6 years of hard work is success and paid off.
Pegs will give him a 5 year extension
I would rather see this clown fired than have to look at him for 5 more years.
Pegs will give him a 5 year extension
I would rather see this clown fired than have to look at him for 5 more years.
