Kevyn Adams GM thread

[sabremike]

I think a guy who has had a decade plus around the league (Karmanos, for example) would at least carry a *base level* of respect from the boys club that is NHL GMs. But yes, I agree in principle with this.

The fact that they can't even bring themselves to make a "smallest effort needed" move that would clearly improve things is horrifying.

 

[Fjordsen]

It might not be Burke, but we need that experienced guy with credibility and connections that everyone in the league knows. There are guys like Lombardi, Holland, Poile, Wilson, I would even consider Jarmo for any of the GM or POHO positions, depending on what Terry wants. Experienced guys who have been to the playoffs, some of them have won cups. The GM can be any promising guy with experience even in Boston/Dallas/Tampa etc.

 

[OkimLom]

Music and sports are two completely different things.

Not too long ago, every C prospect in the draft said they wanted to be like Toews. I bet Toews isn't top of mind for guys in this year's draft.

Things turn over quickly. I just don't see Messier or any other former NHLer in his 60s having a ton of pull with kids these days.

The most you get today is long term relationships developing between franchise legends and current players. Like Jim Kelly and Josh Allen.

But, Brandon Beane isn't having Thurman and Kelly calling FAs to try and get them to come to Buffalo.


I would love Ken Holland or Brian Burke as POHO who helps groom the next GM if they choose to hire yet another rookie GM.

I just don't see it happening.

And Messier is kind of weird to me given that he doesn't have front office experience and has zero ties to the Sabres.

What would Messier really change? I think most people would view it as just cutting a check for a "name" as opposed to hiring someone with actual FO chops.

A Messier hire would bring in some fans as it's more of PR hire more than a Hockey Operations hire. And if Buffalo had trouble of bringing in fans WHILE winning, I wouldn't hate it. Seeing as Buffalo has shown in the long past, that if you have winning team, the fans will come, I don't think the hire would be necessary.

 

[May Day 10]

The problem (well there are many) with the half-measure move of making Karmanos the new GM is it changes nothing.

Maybe he has better GM traits than Adams? I dont know 100%. I do know, it would likely mean more of the same. We would have Nightingale and Crowe doing all the scouting. Forton doing whatever it is he contributes. Appert would still be the lego man head coach in training. The cloud over this organization would remain. Players would fall into this funk for all of the next 3-5 seasons until we are here again.


A MAJOR move would immediately change the atmosphere at KBC. I could guarantee the lockerroom would see a massive bump. Standards would be higher. They also need to show the NHLPA and prospective front office staff that: UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT,
The whole foundation of the thing wouldnt be an excuse-making stall tactic for Adams, Pegula, and Appert. (Penalty Kill has taken MASSIVE steps)

 

[joshjull]

I agree, Mark Messier is a weird one to name thats why I named Ken Holland in my post.

Mark Messier has no connection to this franchise.

I agree these types of moves will never happen. They tried with Pat Lafontaine and it lasted 5 minutes because all they want is a puppet.

LaFontaine failed because he wasn’t good at his job and lost a power struggle with Murray.

Patty ran the GM search and hired Murray. Who immediately started butting heads with Patty over the direction of the rebuild. The most public part of that was the fight over what to do with Ryan Miller. Patty wanted to extend him, Murray wanted to trade him.Murray was all in on a scorched earth tear down. He wanted to tank for two years to get into position to hopefully draft McDavid. Patty didn’t want to take the scorched earth approach. Seems like he wanted to keep a few key vets around, starting with Miller.

It’s still kind of amazing to me that Patty didn’t know Murray’s vision after interviewing him for the GM job. Did the path of the rebuild not come up? How could it not? If it did, then did Murray lie about his plans? What a mess.

Then Pegula re-enters the picture because he has to pick which vision to go with. Murray wins the argument and Patty leaves shortly after. All of it is still ultimately Pegula’s fault. The chain of events starts with him impulsively hiring Patty in the first place.

 

[toddkaz]

How about just hire a competent GM and it solves these problems.

Its extremely frustrating because

1) Adams will probably not get fired
2) If Adams gets fired they will just hire another puppet

The only solution is Pegula sells the team.

 

[TehDoak]

He’s not getting fired.

It’s very clear he isn’t getting fired.

Our only hope is that his contract isn’t renewed whenever it is up. But he won’t be paid to leave.

Just hope it’s up after next year…and laugh at the people who argue it isn’t about saving money.

Two straight years of regression after he laughed at a reporter for asking about a 'missed opportunity'

Two straight offseasons of addressing the wrong parts of the team and leaving big unresolved problems.

Two straight years of watching his big contracts looking worse by the minute.

And with the cap skyrocketing, his 'preserving cap space' strategy is proving to be another dud.

I mean...it'd be one thing if he had some sort of resume to say "Look I've done this before, it takes time".
There is zero evidence that things will get better if given more time. He's building towards a swift first round exit...if things all break right in a single season.

There is no logical reason to keep him, even if the Pegulas like him personally and trust him. He has to be gone.

 

[Jim Bob]

There have been numerous reports that Adams is difficult to work with.

Adams is middle of the pack in trades pulled off since being hired as GM. And we know that there have been a few that got away because a player blocked a trade.

Grinding for a good deal isn't the worst rep to have as a GM.

 

[toddkaz]

I read some GMs don't even pick up the phone when Adams calls....Not sure if thats true?

 

[OkimLom]

Adams is middle of the pack in trades pulled off since being hired as GM. And we know that there have been a few that got away because a player blocked a trade.

Grinding for a good deal isn't the worst rep to have as a GM.

But there is still a sense of "working together" in a business relationship that is expected among the GMs. I agree there are times you want your GM grinding for a good deal, but if that's the only level he operates on, and they refuse to use other tools to help other GMs out at time (weaponizing cap space to make a deal go through for example) it really doesn't create a sense of easy to work which could be advantageous for the organization down the road.

Add in that Adams hasn't exactly been successful overall, so this hard stance that Adams puts on, can be exhausting to work with, and other suitors might be better options to work with.

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

How about just hire a competent GM and it solves these problems.

Its extremely frustrating because

1) Adams will probably not get fired
2) If Adams gets fired they will just hire another puppet

The only solution is Pegula sells the team.

This is where I'm at..

I don't trust that Terry will even make a correct hire (Most likely will just promote Karmanos)

Nor do I believe that a person with actual NHL upper management experience would even want to work with/for Terry.

 

[jc17]

I read some GMs don't even pick up the phone when Adams calls....Not sure if thats true?

That would be pretty silly, so I'm guessing not

 

[Ace]

Two straight years of regression after he laughed at a reporter for asking about a 'missed opportunity'

Two straight offseasons of addressing the wrong parts of the team and leaving big unresolved problems.

Two straight years of watching his big contracts looking worse by the minute.

And with the cap skyrocketing, his 'preserving cap space' strategy is proving to be another dud.

I mean...it'd be one thing if he had some sort of resume to say "Look I've done this before, it takes time".
There is zero evidence that things will get better if given more time. He's building towards a swift first round exit...if things all break right in a single season.

There is no logical reason to keep him, even if the Pegulas like him personally and trust him. He has to be gone.

There is a logical reason. Three actually. You just have to accept that his job description isn’t about winning or even icing a respectable club. The sooner people accept that Adams job is

1. Don’t ask for more money. Keep the hockey department as cheap as possible. Don’t spend on the team even when they are in dire need. Never ask me to retain salary.

2. Keep Terry involved and informed on everything. Doesn’t have to be good news, obviously. That’s never mattered.

3. Take the bullets at pressers and from fans.


He does everything his position as totally unqualified yes man asks of him.

Which is why he’s still here.

 

[Ace]

Adams is middle of the pack in trades pulled off since being hired as GM. And we know that there have been a few that got away because a player blocked a trade.

Grinding for a good deal isn't the worst rep to have as a GM.

I don’t care where he ranks on a list of number of moves when he’s had the roster most in need of change for five years. It will go up one more when they trade Joker…who they’ve needed to make a deal to upgrade on his entire tenure that he never made. I’m supposed to count that as a positive?

Here’s who Adams is: the GM who made ZERO MOVES the entire fifth year of his tenure while the team lost 13 straight and sits in last place at the deadline.

That what he gets credit for.

Not icing an unfinished roster and selling the spare parts for future considerations.

 

[Fezzy126]

There have been numerous reports that Adams is difficult to work with.

Source?

I can't remember ever reading this

 

[Gabrielor]

LaFontaine failed because he wasn’t good at his job and lost a power struggle with Murray.

Patty ran the GM search and hired Murray. Who immediately started butting heads with Patty over the direction of the rebuild. The most public part of that was the fight over what to do with Ryan Miller. Patty wanted to extend him, Murray wanted to trade him.Murray was all in on a scorched earth tear down. He wanted to tank for two years to get into position to hopefully draft McDavid. Patty didn’t want to take the scorched earth approach. Seems like he wanted to keep a few key vets around, starting with Miller.

It’s still kind of amazing to me that Patty didn’t know Murray’s vision after interviewing him for the GM job. Did the path of the rebuild not come up? How could it not? If it did, then did Murray lie about his plans? What a mess.

Then Pegula re-enters the picture because he has to pick which vision to go with. Murray wins the argument and Patty leaves shortly after. All of it is still ultimately Pegula’s fault. The chain of events starts with him impulsively hiring Patty in the first place.

This is probably just screaming for a 4-paragraph response from you, but I think Patty was right re:keep vets.

The biggest problem has been culture, and they have yet to stabilize it. Should've kept Miller and Pominville and sold the others. Then the 14-15-16 picks might not be top 2, but they also might have an appreciation for being a Sabre.

 

[Ace]

Source?

I can't remember ever reading this

I mean…there’s no less than a half dozen times someone has reported it.

Friedman last week on his 32 thoughts podcast said the word from GMs around the league is that he talks a lot and then when they get close he is gun shy and backs away.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

This is probably just screaming for a 4-paragraph response from you, but I think Patty was right re:keep vets.

The biggest problem has been culture, and they have yet to stabilize it. Should've kept Miller and Pominville and sold the others. Then the 14-15-16 picks might not be top 2, but they also might have an appreciation for being a Sabre.

Miller wasn't going to re-sign. It was clear he wanted to go west coast.

 

[Game suspension]

 

[Fezzy126]

I mean…there’s no less than a half dozen times someone has reported it.

Friedman last week on his 32 thoughts podcast said the word from GMs around the league is that he talks a lot and then when they get close he is gun shy and backs away.

I listened to the last 32 thoughts, that's not what Friedman said.

 

[Fjordsen]

Source?

I can't remember ever reading this

I remember this, there was definitely something similar, although it was a long time ago, maybe someone talked about it in the summer.

 

[joshjull]

This is probably just screaming for a 4-paragraph response from you, but I think Patty was right re:keep vets.

The biggest problem has been culture, and they have yet to stabilize it. Should've kept Miller and Pominville and sold the others. Then the 14-15-16 picks might not be top 2, but they also might have an appreciation for being a Sabre.

I agree. About Patty’s opinion that is, not the length of my response.

My only take on why he wasn’t good at his job is not understanding the plans of the man he hired to be his GM. It’s still is crazy to me it took only 1-2 months for Murray and Patty to butt heads over the rebuild.

 

[Jim Bob]

I don’t care where he ranks on a list of number of moves when he’s had the roster most in need of change for five years. It will go up one more when they trade Joker…who they’ve needed to make a deal to upgrade on his entire tenure that he never made. I’m supposed to count that as a positive?

Here’s who Adams is: the GM who made ZERO MOVES the entire fifth year of his tenure while the team lost 13 straight and sits in last place at the deadline.

That what he gets credit for.

Not icing an unfinished roster and selling the spare parts for future considerations.

I was responding to the idea that he doesn't get deals done because other GMs don't respect him or that he has a bad reputation.

He has gotten plenty of trades done.

The problem with Adams is not an inability to work with other GMs due to a lack of respect or any other reason. The problem with Adams is that he is not capable of building a quality NHL roster.

 

[TehDoak]

There is a logical reason. Three actually. You just have to accept that his job description isn’t about winning or even icing a respectable club. The sooner people accept that Adams job is

1. Don’t ask for more money. Keep the hockey department as cheap as possible. Don’t spend on the team even when they are in dire need. Never ask me to retain salary.

2. Keep Terry involved and informed on everything. Doesn’t have to be good news, obviously. That’s never mattered.

3. Take the bullets at pressers and from fans.


He does everything his position as totally unqualified yes man asks of him.

Which is why he’s still here.

While you aren't wrong that he is a yes man. he wasn't hired for his resume, he was hired for his willingness to do whatever the Pegulas tell him.

And there is value to that, especially to the Pegulas.

But....financially, they are in an untenable position.

They have to do constant promotions to get fans into the building. They are playing to the 3rd lowest % attendance in the league. They brought in a new COO and VP of Business Operations to try to fix that. The Pegulas see first hand how much local fans are willing to spend for a winner. But...as long the Sabres aren't competitive....they won't be able to sell tickets at full price. They are also close to losing an entire generation of fans. Fans under the age of 21 likely don't have any good memories about the Sabres.

They hired him to save the Pegulas money. He's costing them money. That is why he will get fired.

 

[Jim Bob]

But there is still a sense of "working together" in a business relationship that is expected among the GMs. I agree there are times you want your GM grinding for a good deal, but if that's the only level he operates on, and they refuse to use other tools to help other GMs out at time (weaponizing cap space to make a deal go through for example) it really doesn't create a sense of easy to work which could be advantageous for the organization down the road.

Add in that Adams hasn't exactly been successful overall, so this hard stance that Adams puts on, can be exhausting to work with, and other suitors might be better options to work with.

Again, Adams has gotten trades done with Edmonton, Washington, Colorado, Winnipeg, San Jose (twice), Florida, and Philadelphia in the past 12 months alone.

You add in Montreal, Columbus, Anaheim (twice), Minnesota, Nashville, Chicago, LA, and Vancouver if you go back to the Bloom-Stillman trade in February 2023.

That's like half the NHL over the past couple of years.

The issue is that Adams doesn't know how to build a winner and not because he can't get trades done with other GMs.