Kevyn Adams GM thread

[Fjordy]

Time to fire.

 

[sabremike]

It really speaks to what a clownshoes organization this is when their AHL GM is a billion times more competent and qualified than the NHL one.

 

[BFLO]

I've stated multiple times they need to either bring in an experienced GM who has carte blanche to remake the front office or bring in an outside consultant who has built a winning team help restructure the front office. Swapping in Adams for another 1st time GM who the owner can bully into getting what he wants is just asking for more of the same.




The cheapness and decision to go with unsupported kids over several seasons (and having a coach who told them to just play and not worry about defense) seems to caused long term damage that needs to be undone.
Veterans and leadership on a team with no real aspirations costs two things: money and a roster spot.

Opting for Vets like Hinostroza, Pysyk, Butcher, Eakin, Hayden, Bjork, Clague, Lybushkin, Jost, Anderson, etc vs getting vets that are respected and can still play a bit at a higher dollar cost was a mistake. In most of those cases, those players were simply cheap for their role.

Multiple opportunities there were to take on a veteran player with a higher dollar hit (and get paid to do so) were ignored. The only real example where they did was Will Butcher.

And it was the same with the coaches. After Granato's interim year, Adams make a big case about going to talk to all these coaches...and he just circled back and signed the cheapest one, which was Granato. And the staff was just as cheap. Matt Ellis isn't an assistant coach in this league...yet he's been kept around...because he's cheap. They've had the same assistant coaches the last 4 years, with the only change being swapping out Jason Christie with Seth Appert.

The cheapness on support, both in coaching and on the ice, has been the downfall of the team long term.

We could have taken on Ghost Bear instead of Butcher and gotten paid more in assets and had a much, much better player.

But Ghost bear cost like $3m more in cash than Butcher in a season where we had $25m in cap space.

 

[Jim Bob]

It really speaks to what a clownshoes organization this is when their AHL GM is a billion times more competent and qualified than the NHL one.

Building a quality AHL team and building a quality NHL team are two completely different challenges.

And didn't the genius AGM hire Appert?

 

[sabremike]

Building a quality AHL team and building a quality NHL team are two completely different challenges.

And didn't the genius AGM hire Appert?

Are you seriously arguing JK wouldn't be insanely more qualified to be our GM and do a better job than Kevyn Milbury?

 

[Jim Bob]

Are you seriously arguing JK wouldn't be insanely more qualified to be our GM and do a better job than Kevyn Milbury?

Karmanos would be as qualified for the GM job as the two guys that came before Adams as the Sabres GM.

Being better than Adams is a laughably low bar.

I want the bar to be set at being a high quality NHL GM that can build the Sabres into a perennial playoff team.

It is far from a given that Karmanos is THAT dude.

 

[Archie Lee]

Karmanos would be as qualified for the GM job as the two guys that came before Adams as the Sabres GM.

Being better than Adams is a laughably low bar.

I want the bar to be set at being a high quality NHL GM that can build the Sabres into a perennial playoff team.

It is far from a given that Karmanos is THAT dude.

I agree it is far from given that Karmanos is the right guy. But, there is a next to zero chance that the Sabres will hire a “high-quality NHL GM”. For one, Pegula doesn’t operate that way. For two, there are rarely any available.

Building a quality AHL team and building a quality NHL team are two completely different challenges.

And didn't the genius AGM hire Appert?

Appert was hired several months before Karmanos joined the Sabres.

 

[OkimLom]

Are you seriously arguing JK wouldn't be insanely more qualified to be our GM and do a better job than Kevyn Milbury?

His resume says he is more qualified than Kevyn for sure. Whether he would be better than Kevyn it would remain to be seen. Let's not act like people weren't supportive of every hire/move at some point, during this Pegula ownership. People were so confident that each hire would be better than the last. Here we are, looking down the barrel at 14 years of missing the playoffs and 18 years since we've won a round in the playoffs.

 

[sabremike]

I agree it is far from given that Karmanos is the right guy. But, there is a next to zero chance that the Sabres will hire a “high-quality NHL GM”. For one, Pegula doesn’t operate that way. For two, there are rarely any available.


Alpert was hired several months before Karmanos joined the Sabres.

Pretty much this. Having a guy in the position who other GM's don't laugh at behind his back would be a significant improvement. And some people are missing my point: if you told the other 31 teams they had to hire both JK and Kevyn and one was to GM the NHL team and the other the AHL team all 31 teams would give you the exact same answer.

 

[Archie Lee]

My preference would be for a legitimate GM search led by someone other than Pegula. But I would be happy if Karmanos took over from Adams. I have nothing personal against Adams. He seems like a good man. But this is pro-sports and good people get fired all the time. We are 5 years in on Adams and the sample size is plenty large enough to conclude the best we can hope for is that he stumbles into a line-up that can hang in the playoff race until game 79-80. Karmanos has years of AGM experience with winning franchises. He is a legit GM candidate. At this point it’s not close. One is a proven failure as an NHL GM. The other has the background experience that makes him a strong candidate to be a 1st time NHL GM and at least offers the hope that he would be the person who turns it around.

 

[jc17]

My preference would be for a legitimate GM search led by someone other than Pegula. But I would be happy if Karmanos took over from Adams. I have nothing personal against Adams. He seems like a good man. But this is pro-sports and good people get fired all the time. We are 5 years in on Adams and the sample size is plenty large enough to conclude the best we can hope for is that he stumbles into a line-up that can hang in the playoff race until game 79-80. Karmanos has years of AGM experience with winning franchises. He is a legit GM candidate. At this point it’s not close. One is a proven failure as an NHL GM. The other has the background experience that makes him a strong candidate to be a 1st time NHL GM and at least offers the hope that he would be the person who turns it around.

The issue remains that botterill and Murray were also viewed as legit GM candidates.

Sure, between the two go ahead and try something new, but I'm with Jim in that I wouldn't necessarily be jumping for joy with JK. You just never know what you're getting

 

[Jim Bob]

At the end of the day, Karmanos could be a massive upgrade from Adams and it wouldn't mean much if the priority continues to be Pegula being heard and the team being economical and efficient.

Plus, they could say they had a "legitimate GM search" and it would ring extremely hollow if Karmanos were the hire.

Just like Adams trying to spin the Ruff hire as a legitimate head coach search and that he really went deep with over a dozen candidates as quickly as Ruff was hired. It did not ring as true to most people that listened to Adams explain the hire.

I would only be excited by a Karmanos hire if there was also a big investment in the pro scouting side and other areas of the front office where the Sabres run extremely lean today.

 

[jc17]

The solution is obviously to get a president of hockey ops....who would still be hired by pegula

Agree that small staff remains an issue and that's one of the more concrete failures of Adams. Trades and free agents filled with "what ifs", staff is not.

 

[ForsbergMoDo21]

Pretty much this. Having a guy in the position who other GM's don't laugh at behind his back would be a significant improvement. And some people are missing my point: if you told the other 31 teams they had to hire both JK and Kevyn and one was to GM the NHL team and the other the AHL team all 31 teams would give you the exact same answer.

This is nonsense.

KA is so smug and incompetent they have to be laughing in his face, not behind his back.

 

[Fjordy]

Of course, if I had to choose between Karmanos and Adams, I would choose Karmanos, although I would like an experienced GM or an experienced POHO (ideally), but Terry does not recognize POHO.

 

[TehDoak]

Of course, if I had to choose between Karmanos and Adams, I would choose Karmanos, although I would like an experienced GM or an experienced POHO (ideally), but Terry does not recognize POHO.

Honestly at this point, I could give a rats ass about titles.

All I care about in our next hire:

- Experience in building a winning team/roster
- Autonomy to build and run front office as seen fit
- Given a budget to be competitive.
- A reasonable amount of autonomy on the hockey side of things

 

[Zman5778]

Honestly at this point, I could give a rats ass about titles.

All I care about in our next hire:

- Experience in building a winning team/roster
- Autonomy to build and run front office as seen fit
- Given a budget to be competitive.
- A reasonable amount of autonomy on the hockey side of things

Good freakin luck getting the 2 in bold with Pegula as the owner.

 

[Archie Lee]

The issue remains that botterill and Murray were also viewed as legit GM candidates.

Sure, between the two go ahead and try something new, but I'm with Jim in that I wouldn't necessarily be jumping for joy with JK. You just never know what you're getting

Well, for me there is a large gap between "happy" and "jumping for joy". I recognize that it is not our role as fans to identify, pursue, and hire the GM. But, if you have a few minutes, take some time and try and identify an available "high quality NHL GM". Or, save yourself some time and take my word for it that there are none. The list of veteran NHL GMs who are currently available is a "who's who" list of men that most fans would not want anywhere close to their team's GM role. Ken Holland is maybe the exception, but he is 69 and even he has his detractors. When Adams is eventually fired, it is a near certainty that the next GM will be either a 1st time GM in the Murray, Botterill, Karmanos category, or it will be a veteran with a track-record that on close scrutiny will not inspire a great deal of confidence. There is a reason for why most GM's in the NHL are on their first jobs. If you are good at it you tend to stick in the role. If you're not, 2nd and 3rd chances are rare.

 

[toddkaz]

Are we even sure Kevyn Adams will get fired in the off season? Usually you hear rumblings out of an organization when someone is on the hot seat.

Kevyn Adams looks pretty comfortable.

 

[Fjordy]

Honestly at this point, I could give a rats ass about titles.

All I care about in our next hire:

- Experience in building a winning team/roster
- Autonomy to build and run front office as seen fit
- Given a budget to be competitive.
- A reasonable amount of autonomy on the hockey side of things

This is in some other ideal world, it's hard to believe.

 

[Ace]

The difference between Karmanos and Adams is like the different between trying to get warm in sunlight or a freezer.

Why?

Because Karmanos would try to act in ways he can explain on his resume for future employment. Adams knows this is the only GM job he will ever sniff. 31 other teams wouldn’t have hired him in a million years before he proved to be the worst GM in the league. He acts to save this job. Cut spending, take bullets, Hope it works out somehow, suck Terry’s wrinkly pecker every chance he gets.

Until Terry cares more about winning than spending…he’s doing a great job. Period.

Our only hope is that the rising cap forcing him to spend more makes him unhappy with last place and think that a qualified person may do better with his limited resources. He sure isn’t unhappy about last at this spending limit.

 

[OkimLom]

I can't believe I just had this thought, but I'm curious how Darcy would handle the current situation in Buffalo. I feel with restrictions, he did his best work and if there's a guy that could work with an ownership handcuffing their management team...

 

[chi777]

Well, for me there is a large gap between "happy" and "jumping for joy". I recognize that it is not our role as fans to identify, pursue, and hire the GM. But, if you have a few minutes, take some time and try and identify an available "high quality NHL GM". Or, save yourself some time and take my word for it that there are none. The list of veteran NHL GMs who are currently available is a "who's who" list of men that most fans would not want anywhere close to their team's GM role. Ken Holland is maybe the exception, but he is 69 and even he has his detractors. When Adams is eventually fired, it is a near certainty that the next GM will be either a 1st time GM in the Murray, Botterill, Karmanos category, or it will be a veteran with a track-record that on close scrutiny will not inspire a great deal of confidence. There is a reason for why most GM's in the NHL are on their first jobs. If you are good at it you tend to stick in the role. If you're not, 2nd and 3rd chances are rare.

This is total bullshit. There is no way that there is no one on earth that can be a qualified and capable GM for the Sabres.

 

[Zman5778]

I can't believe I just had this thought, but I'm curious how Darcy would handle the current situation in Buffalo. I feel with restrictions, he did his best work and if there's a guy that could work with an ownership handcuffing their management team...

Here's the difference: Golisano said the bottom line was to lose as little money as possible.....which means get into the playoffs by any means to get the at least 2 home games of revenue. So the handcuff there was purely financial

Pegula, by and large, will spend on the roster.....as long as he is "heard" in the GM's room. He was the driving force behind Ehrhoff and Leino. And I think he was the co-driving force of Hall (with Snake Oil Ralph).

HOWEVER, Darcy did tend to fall in love with his own draftees occasionally. So I think while Darcy would be a bit more active on the waiver wire and maybe via trades that didn't involve prospects. But I don't think much would change in the forward corps at all.

 

[jc17]

I can't believe I just had this thought, but I'm curious how Darcy would handle the current situation in Buffalo. I feel with restrictions, he did his best work and if there's a guy that could work with an ownership handcuffing their ma

I feel like he found hidden gems but I think in today's league it would be harder with the availability of information. Analytics, more video, etc

Like briere trade never happens now, Drury deal is iffy.