Value of: Kessel @3.4aav for a Goalie

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Not in the market for Kaut. In the market for a goalie. I strongly disagree about JTC but that’s not the point of this discussion.

If Christian Dvorak was able to return a 1st round pick, Compher is certainly worth a 3rd.


Change Kaut to a 3rd round pick then. Or just make it Johansson + 3rd for Kessel @ 50% and we'll make the cap space elsewhere.

 

[Richard88]

That’s why I’m thinking retention on JTC and Francouz instead of Johansson. Keeps the cap neutral for COL this season, and take the pain out of eating JTC an extra year for AZ.

Fair enough, that's a logical proposal.
However, as mentioned above Francouz is a non starter given how error prone Kuemper has been. A cup contender can't afford to roll without a legit backup with an unreliable starter, that would be very risky, certainly too risky to be worth getting Kessel.

$1.8m retention wouldn't really work as Colorado only have about $2m in capspace which will be needed for cap acrual at the deadline, and also to cover bonuses which could be over $3m (probably less but still a significant amount).

Realistically this is a trade that happens closer to the deadline when cap considerations are lessened. By then most of Compher's salary will have been paid too, making him more moveable. Then again at that point Avs may as well hang on to him unless Arizona really want him as a key part of the trade.

I suppose Arizona need a goalie asap though right, so waiting to the deadline isn't ideal for them. Maybe if Avd add an extra asset that would work... something like JTC + Kaut + Johansson + 2021 3rd for Kessel 50%? Kaut +3rd ought to get close to bridging the difference in value between Compher and Kessel. Johansson can be had on waivers soon so he won't have much value.

 

[Richard88]

JTC isn't a negative value asset and we're not retaining on him to trade him, that defeats the purpose of trading him.


Francouz is a non starter. Kaut is still a solid prospect with decent value, just running into the numbers game situation in Colorado.

Kaut would look good in Arizona. First of all he'd easily make that team as it's not very good, and he'd benefit from their slower pace and cycle game. Similar to Timmins in that way actually.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Fair enough, that's a logical proposal.
However, as mentioned above Francouz is a non starter given how error prone Kuemper has been. A cup contender can't afford to roll without a legit backup with an unreliable starter, that would be very risky, certainly too risky to be worth getting Kessel.

$1.8m retention wouldn't really work as Colorado only have about $2m in capspace which will be needed for cap acrual at the deadline, and also to cover bonuses which could be over $3m (probably less but still @/a significant amount).

Realistically this is a trade that happens closer to the deadline when cap considerations are lessened. By then most of Compher's salary will have been paid too, making him more moveable. Then again at that point Avs may as well hang on to him unless Arizona really want him as a key part of the trade.

I suppose Arizona need a goalie asap though right, so waiting to the deadline isn't ideal for them. Maybe if Avd add an extra asset that would work... something like JTC + Kaut + Johansson + 2021 3rd for Kessel 50%? Kaut +3rd ought to get close to bridging the difference in value between Compher and Kessel. Johansson can be had on waivers soon so he won't have much value.

Doesn't make sense for Arizona to wait until the deadline to trade for a Goalie though. They need one like right now.


It's a trade that could work maybe by December though. After ~25 games or so where Arizona realizes they need an NHL goalie and the Avs have decided they'd like an upgrade on the 2nd line wing(If Newhook is struggling or the other guys aren't cutting it).

By then the Avs would have more flexibility on the cap already as the banked space will have accumulated a little and Phil's cap hit coming to the Avs would have lowered also.

 

[Richard88]

If Christian Dvorak was able to return a 1st round pick, Compher is certainly worth a 3rd.


Change Kaut to a 3rd round pick then. Or just make it Johansson + 3rd for Kessel @ 50% and we'll make the cap space elsewhere.

Johansson can be claimed on waivers so that would basically make it Kessel 50% for a late 3rd. Seems a bit low.

Keeping JTC out of the deal opens up other options though. Maybe Kaut + 3rd + Johansson for Kessel 50%, and then AVS move JTC in another deal to a different team to recoup a pick.

 

[rt]

Fair enough, that's a logical proposal.
However, as mentioned above Francouz is a non starter given how error prone Kuemper has been. A cup contender can't afford to roll without a legit backup with an unreliable starter, that would be very risky, certainly too risky to be worth getting Kessel.

$1.8m retention wouldn't really work as Colorado only have about $2m in capspace which will be needed for cap acrual at the deadline, and also to cover bonuses which could be over $3m (probably less but still @/a significant amount).

Realistically this is a trade that happens closer to the deadline when cap considerations are lessened. By then most of Compher's salary will have been paid too, making him more moveable. Then again at that point Avs may as well hang on to him unless Arizona really want him as a key part of the trade.

I suppose Arizona need a goalie asap though right, so waiting to the deadline isn't ideal for them. Maybe if Avd add an extra asset that would work... something like JTC + Kaut + Johansson + 2021 3rd for Kessel 50%? Kaut +3rd ought to get close to bridging the difference in value between Compher and Kessel. Johansson can be had on waivers soon so he won't have much value.

The value is fine. But it leaves us with a mess the requires more cleaning up. I guess I’d answer by saying I’d much rather just have a 2nd round pick for Kessel (50%) then I would JTC+Kaut+JJ+3rd.

If the Coyotes could get a 2nd for Kessel, they’d have already done so. But I’m guessing they will be able to get one at the trade deadline. Which I still prefer to that package.

I’d rather just get Khudobin and a 3rd or something from Dallas, if I could.

 

[Richard88]

Doesn't make sense for Arizona to wait until the deadline to trade for a Goalie though. They need one like right now.


It's a trade that could work maybe by December though. After ~25 games or so where Arizona realizes they need an NHL goalie and the Avs have decided they'd like an upgrade on the 2nd line wing(If Newhook is struggling or the other guys aren't cutting it).

By then the Avs would have more flexibility on the cap already as the banked space will have accumulated a little and Phil's cap hit coming to the Avs would have lowered also.

Good point. Waiting a few weeks lets Arizona see what they have in net, and Avs can give opportunities to Newhook, Ranta, etc to gauge how badly they need a top 6 forward.

That said, theres a risk that Arizona simply claim JJ before the season when he goes on waivers, in which case the opportunity to move him in a Kessel trade disappears.

 

[rt]

If Christian Dvorak was able to return a 1st round pick, Compher is certainly worth a 3rd.


Change Kaut to a 3rd round pick then. Or just make it Johansson + 3rd for Kessel @ 50% and we'll make the cap space elsewhere.

Dvorak is really good. Compher is really not. There is no comparison, here. You’ll find out in a few months what this opinion is all about. Bump this in January.

Aside from all of that rabbit hole stuff, I like the JJ+3rd for Kessel. Seems okay to me.

 

[Richard88]

Dvorak is really good. Compher is really not. There is no comparison, here. You’ll find out in a few months what this opinion is all about. Bump this in January.

Aside from all of that rabbit hole stuff, I like the JJ+3rd for Kessel. Seems okay to me.

The difference in value between a 1st + 2nd and just a 3rd is pretty big too. It's not unreasonable to think JTC is worth a 3rd.

I'm down for JJ + 3rd for Kessel (50%). We'd need to have a trade lined up to move Compher out in a separate move though. If JTC gets a 3rd that's essentially JTC + JJ for Kessel(50%) from Avs perspective, which is a good deal.

 

[rt]

The difference in value between a 1st + 2nd and just a 3rd is pretty big too. It's not unreasonable to think JTC is worth a 3rd.

I'm down for JJ + 3rd for Kessel (50%). We'd need to have a trade lined up to move Compher out in a separate move though. If JTC gets a 3rd that's essentially JTC + JJ for Kessel(50%) from Avs perspective, which is a good deal.

AZ has three 1sts and five 2nds for eight picks in the first two rounds of the next draft. If they make all eight picks, it’ll be the most by any team in history.

I might rather just trade Kessel for a goalie that’s definitely better than Korenar and Hutton. Khudobin seems like a reasonable target.

 

[CreeksideStrangler]

Sharks need a winger with Kane maybe gone, and Kessel would offer good veteran presence; we have an extra starting goalie, too. How about Kessel for Hill (he's good if you haven't seen him)

Kessel is far from a "good veteran presence"

 

[Rafafouille]

You can get a good old Carey Price. No need to even throw Kessel in. You can get him for free.

 

[Richard88]

AZ has three 1sts and five 2nds for eight picks in the first two rounds of the next draft. If they make all eight picks, it’ll be the most by any team in history.

I might rather just trade Kessel for a goalie that’s definitely better than Korenar and Hutton. Khudobin seems like a reasonable target.

I could see a Khudobin/Kessel trade working as well. Dallas have a logjam in net and need scoring, and Kessel gets to stay in the sun and play golf year round.

Is Khudobin definitely available though? Dallas have ambitions this season and it would be somewhat risky to move their most reliable starter to roll with Holtby and Oettinger. I'd imagine that they want to go with Khudobin and Holtby, and have Oettinger starting in the AHL. Bishop is obviously a giant question mark but it doesn't seem like they're expecting him back anytime soon.

 

[McJedi]

Not in the market for Kaut. In the market for a goalie. I strongly disagree about JTC but that’s not the point of this discussion.

I’m an Avs fan and you’re right that JTC has negative value. His $4.5mm salary is far too high for a commodity bottom six RW/C. Avs like this player however so they give him ample opportunity to consistently demonstrate how hollow his game really is. I’d trade a 2nd round pick to remove his contract, but Avs already traded those away. Avs and some fans think he holds some type of positive value. Even if that value is considered minimal, they are wrong.

I’d be all about a Kaut+JTC+3rd goalie deal to AZ for Kessel (50%). But the only thing of value there is Kaut. He’s probably worth a 2nd round pick IMO. Decent prospect. Great size, good skater… has solid middle six RW potential.

JTC sucks. Nothing happens when he’s on the ice. He is a poor possession player that makes many line mates less successful. He’s a meh PK guy. He sucks at faceoffs. He plays a very hollow game most nights, but he’s at least defensively engaged so he doesn’t hemorrhage goals against.

The 3rd goalie had his moments last season. Wasn’t bad for the Avs.

 

[McJedi]

Johansson can be claimed on waivers so that would basically make it Kessel 50% for a late 3rd. Seems a bit low.

Keeping JTC out of the deal opens up other options though. Maybe Kaut + 3rd + Johansson for Kessel 50%, and then AVS move JTC in another deal to a different team to recoup a pick.

This idea the Avs can trade JTC for a 3rd or mid-round pick is complete poppycock. And I’m as much an Avs homer as anyone.

the Avs should take the last pick in round 7 for JTC if they don’t have to retain. But the Avs don’t have that option. They could waive JTC tomorrow and he’ll go unclaimed.

 

[fasterthanlight]

Kessel is far from a "good veteran presence"

He's probably an upgrade from Kane in that department

 

[avsfan9]

It'd have to be Francouz + Helm + a pick for Kessel @ 3.4 because we could fit that

If you were looking only for Johansson I don't see how it could be arranged unless Compher was going back the other way

Joes not trading away a guy he just signed to a contract. This isn’t Vegas. This is really not the time of year to be making trades when they are trying to finalize a roster for next week. I can see if one of our top wingers were going to be out for a period of time. This seems like a trade deadline thing.

 

[its josh]

Why not just trade Kessel for more assets then run Hutton to get Shane

Because Georgiev is worse and lock in that lottery pick. Definitely worth giving up a 2nd.



But I'll settle for a waivers claim.

 

[Lays]

You can have Georgiev for a 4th

 

[Gruyeriev]

I don’t think Kessel is a good fit for us. He is a good player but at 34 I have to wonder how much he has left in the gas tank. Certainly wouldn’t want Francouz involved in the trade. He is more important to us than the trade value he has and with Kempers health history we need a solid #2 to take the helm if he goes down. That’s why JJ is also important. It was only 2 years ago when we lost Grub and Frankie. I don’t think Avs fans want to relive that. Hard pass.

 

[Perennial]

Coyotes are tanking, are they not?

Just pick a random fan from the stands before each game to suit up and play goal...