Kent Nilsson

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Sure, but he's not better than Makarov.

Hard for me to figure this one out actually. I watched Makarov live and listened mostly on radio for him and I was younger back then.

For Nilsson, I saw video reruns of his games my dad had back then on VHS but I was older when I saw them so I could appreciate his skill more.

But what I saw was his technical skill was like Gaudreau type but he could fly like Ovechkin. Hard to compare puck skills across eras though sometimes for me.
 
MacInnis 3rd highest scoring defensmen ever, and Iggy the 2nd highest scorer of active players don't belong?

I don't think you recognize how those 2 players dominated the league they played in. Iggy will be a first ballot HHOF induction. The scary part is in his prime he never had a true #1 line center.

The 3 players you mention are or were great dangling and may be the best danglers but in terms of all round skill only Iggy and MacInnis are in the same ball park as Nilsson.



You can not compare different eras. Their skill is relative to their peers. It would be like taking Guy Lafleur who smoked and plonking him into the league now. Until the 90's there was little in season training and since 2005 we have learned the importance of the off-season.

Kent made splitting d-men look like an art form. His acceleration was way above that of his peers.

I don't think anyone saying Nilsson was one of (if not the most) skilled Flames of all time is saying all-round skill. That is my point. Iggy had the perfect combination of skill & braun. Chopper had a great shot. Neither were as pure skilled as Nilsson, and it's really not even debatable.
 
Man goalies were terrible back then!

Now when you guys say Kent Nilsson is one of the most talented Flames ever... you mean comparatively, right? Like compared to his teammates at the time, he was no doubt the best, not that he'd be better than Iginla or Johnny if we was to be plunked down into today's game... right?

I think if he was plunked down in today's game, with today's nutrition and training regimes, with today's equipment, then yes he would be at least as good as those guys IMO.
 
I don't think anyone saying Nilsson was one of (if not the most) skilled Flames of all time is saying all-round skill. That is my point. Iggy had the perfect combination of skill & braun. Chopper had a great shot. Neither were as pure skilled as Nilsson, and it's really not even debatable.

The difference in the eras of these 2 players is massive. Nilsson played in the free wheeling, the d-man might not even be able to turn right era and Iggy played in the era of the trap and clutch and grab.

Nilsson if he played the same years as Iggy may have just as easily been Rico Fata. Thankfully that crap of clutching and grabbing is done and mobile players are appreciated again.

I think if he was plunked down in today's game, with today's nutrition and training regimes, with today's equipment, then yes he would be at least as good as those guys IMO.

I disagree in that the D-men of today are among the best athletes in hockey and that was not true in the 80's. As a center he was too light to compete with the d-men of today.
 
I think if he was plunked down in today's game, with today's nutrition and training regimes, with today's equipment, then yes he would be at least as good as those guys IMO.

I agree with SKRusty that you just can't compare them at all. You can only compare how dominant they were amongst their teammates and opponents at that time. That's the only basis of comparison you can apply.

Saying "if X player played today he'd be just as good/bad" is impossible cause it's just a guess. Maybe the lighter equipment negatively affects their skillset? Maybe their IQ can't keep up with today's speed, but looked incredible in the 80's?

Easiest is just to say Nilsson was as or further ahead of his teammates/opponents at the time than Johnny is today or Iginla was a decade ago.
 
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Had to watch a video of Nilsson during the 81 QF vs Philly, game 7

He played exclusively centre, usually with MacMillan or Lever on his LW, and Plett, Reinhart/Houston on his RW. Yes, Reinhart & Houston were normally Dmen.

He was by far the most gifted player with the puck, and looked like one of the bigger players on the ice. 6'1 195 on hockeydb, so not small by anymeans even today. Not sure where you're getting he'd be pushed around today, or that he'd be Rico Fata. That just tells me you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
Had to watch a video of Nilsson during the 81 QF vs Philly, game 7

He played exclusively centre, usually with MacMillan or Lever on his LW, and Plett, Reinhart/Houston on his RW. Yes, Reinhart & Houston were normally Dmen.

He was by far the most gifted player with the puck, and looked like one of the bigger players on the ice. 6'1 195 on hockeydb, so not small by anymeans even today. Not sure where you're getting he'd be pushed around today, or that he'd be Rico Fata. That just tells me you have no idea what you're talking about.

For 1 there was no way he was 195 when he came to Calgary. I was a screaming fan in Corral and have a signed card from him that lists him as 185 lbs which likely was embellished.

There were moments of offensive genius but what you pay no attention to were the moments when the puck wasn't in the offensive end. His skill in his own end was abysmal. Kent was widely regarded as being one of the very worst in the league defensively thus the trade before the 85-86 season. This "star" was moved for a second in 85 and a second in 87.

Here is some reading for you to clarify who the player was. A player can not just be judged by a highlight reel.

http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/7/27/1588556/remembering-the-magic-man

Nilsson was to stay in the deep south but one year before the franchise was uprooted and transferred to Calgary. Hot off a team leading 93 points in his NHL debut season down in Georgia, Kent again found Western Canada to his liking and had a spectacular season in 1980-81, posting career highs across the board with 49-82-131 and finishing third in the NHL in scoring, behind only Wayne Gretzky and Marcel Dionne. Kent Nilsson had arrived as a superstar.

After an injury-plagued 1981-82, Nilsson went on to lead the Flames in scoring three more years. In all, Nilsson led the club in scoring for five of the six years he was a Flame. Over that span his 562 points ranked 8th in the NHL, and was a comfy 222 more than any other Flame. Yet among 82 skaters who dressed for the Flames over that span, Nilsson ranked a lowly 81st in +/-. The man was renowned for his lack of defensive intensity. Or as Joe Pelletier of Greatest Hockey Legends put it:

Nilsson is one of the most technically superb players that Sweden has ever produced. He could awe crowds with his stickhandling and playmaking abilities and skated effortlessly. The slippery winger was as skilled a player as their ever was.​

So with all that skill why isn't Kent Nilsson mentioned in the same breath as Gretzky or Orr? Simple. He was lazy. He'd even admit it on occasion. He rarely worked out and relied strictly on his god-given talent. But oh what a talent to watch!
The Magic Man's talent, and his curse, was his ability to disappear on the ice. He had this knack of materializing at a very dangerous spot along the space-time continuum, and when he was going good that was enough. He was a sublime passer, and a master of the "short breakaway". But when he wasn't scoring, he simply disappeared completely.

The Oilers made him disappear in the first Battle of Alberta, a five-game blowout in 1983 that saw the gushing Oil outscore their southern rival by an astonishing 35 goals to 13. Not a good series for any Flame.

The next year Nilsson managed to lead his team in scoring while posting a team-worst -24, a figure rendered all the more improbable given the fact that Kent himself scored nine shorthanded goals that season! He missed the playoffs with injury, but it didn't seem like the Flames missed him, as they had a much stronger run and pushed the Oilers to seven hard-fought games before ultimately bowing out in the Smythe Final.

In 1984-85, Nilsson did it again, leading the Flames in scoring with 99 points but having the worst (and practically the only) minus on the team. He scored just one point in a first-round upset by his old team, the Jets, and the writing was on the wall in Calgary. That summer Kent - a proud new dad of baby Robert - was shipped to the Minnesota North Stars for a modest exchange of draft picks. As luck would have it, the first of those picks became Joe Nieuwendyk, who after a great decade as a Flame was traded for a young Jarome Iginla. Thus Kent Nilsson remains just two degrees of separation from the current Flames team, a full quarter-century after he was traded! One doesn't often see trade lines as pure as that one - one star for another for another - but the Kent Nilsson trade worked out well for the Flames. Indeed, a tougher, harder-nosed group of Flames went on to oust the Oilers from the playoffs the year after Nilsson's departure, so it's awfully tough to argue that he was that sorely missed.

Kent bided his time in Minnesota, scoring a point per game over two incomplete seasons. He was a depth scorer in Minny, no longer the centre of the offence but still bloody dangerous. But for whatever reason, Lou Nanne soured on Nilsson and sold him to the Oilers for cash just before the trade deadline. Thus Nilsson became the only player of significance, and likely the only one at all, to play for all of Winnipeg, Calgary, and Edmonton.
 
Copper & Blue hey? Who writes that?
I'm not debating his defensive liabilities, nor his laziness. I agree with that, and even stated in my first post. Those negatives only take away from the complete picture of him as a hockey player, but do nothing to tarnish the shine off his skill. Again, this seems to be going off topic between you & I.
We seem to agree that he was one of the most skilled Flames ever.
I don't agree that Iggy/McDonald/MacInnis had the same pure skill as Nilsson. I'm not really sure how that argument can be made...
 
Think if Makarov had played his early career in Calgary that there wouldn't be anyone close. I think back, watching the Russians play he was something to behold, arguably one of the very best in the world. It was a shame that he was hidden behind the Iron Curtain for so long!
 
I for one believe Iginla did benefit some from always having 1st line time even-strengh and power play. In the late nineties and early two-thousands he cemented this position when he had very few other players around him.

Further, the one year he had Conroy and McAmmond on his line and for the first two months of the season they were the best line in hockey. Sucks that McAmmond got injured. And on a side-note, Dean was one of the most-skilled players I've ever seen. I can't say enough about that guy's skills. Literally almost on par with these other guys or even better in some departments but he had such bad injury luck, kind of got ****ed over with the many trades and how he was used for a bunch of years from team to team. That's another sad story IMO. Anyway back to the topic.

Even Fleury benefited from always having premium ice-time and as much of it as he wanted.

Outside of that little diversion, for about 10 years Iginla was like a top 3 power forward. However, his skill-set was different, more along the lines of a Cam Neely who no one besmirches as being one of the best ever (injury-shortened-caree included). Iggy never had very soft hands, nor was his skating at or near the best in the league (not saying it was bad or anything, just slightly above average at his peak). So, skill-set, he was a power forward with a hard shot, excellent positioning and recklass abandon.

To say his skill-set was better than Niewendyk's isn't accurate IMO - if anything they were very comparable. Niewendyk was excellent positionally - just as good or better than Iggy. He had softer hands IMO evidenced by all the tip goals he made and in close stick-handling. Skating edge for me goes to Niewendyk though again probably comparable. Probably a slight edge goes to Iggy with his shot. All around physical play goes to Iggy certainly.

Fleury deserves to be in the HOF IMO and it's sad that he might not get in. IMO he suffered more than Iginla for having a worse supporting cast over a 4 or 5 year period there. Probably would be my favourite player of all time but for his final few years in New York and Chicago which really was just tough to watch and stomach. I think contributing to the last bunch of years of decline was his size quite frankly. He just couldn't skate like he used to with those short little legs. But, for about 10 years there, his puck-control skills, skating and hockey sense were some of the best in the league. The guy was marvelous to watch, and again, I believe he should be in the HOF despite the fact he fell short of 500 goals and had the career ending he did. Props to him for his clean mini-comeback - that has to count for something.

MacInnis was largely a huge-shot man, with good defensive positioning and probably under-appreciated hands. His skating was never very good . . . But better than Regehr who probably deserves an hon mention as a top 15-20 Flame. Skill-set-wise, I'd have to put MacInnis below Nilsson, Niewendyk, Fleury, Kiprusoff and Iggy. Gaudreau too IMO but it's a little soon.

Finally, no one but me has included Kiprusoff who to me was the most-skilled Flame of all time (albeit different position). To me one of the greatest goal-tenders the league has ever seen. Too bad he came to the Flames a little late into his career and then disappeared without a trace.
 
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He was the best the Flames ever had.

But that statement is a bit over the top....

IMO he was the best goaltender in the league over the first 5 of his 7 years in Calgary. I know, only 1 Vezina but the sum total was amazing. Maybe it was a bit of an over-the-top statement as in he's not in Roy/Brodeur territory, but I'd say top 20 - for my money anyway.
 

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