Speculation: Kent Hughes press conference (Jan 18 12:30PM TSN690)

[417]

Is there anyone who actually believes Guhle or Xhekaj's development would have been stunted by playing in Laval?
Barron looks much better than at the start of the season, and of the three he's the only one who already had a year of pro experience (AHL/NHL) under his belt, so it seems like it's worked out fine for him.

Today, no one would say that...but before the season, I think most would have said Guhle straight to the NHL was repeating prior developmental mistakes.

Meanwhile, if anyone had told you Arber Xhekaj was going to spend the entire season in Montreal, people would have wanted Hughes head on a stake.

Personally, doesn't matter to me...it's really just about finding balance between development and playing time.

What we have PLENTY of experience and evidence of is rushing prospects too early. So the fact that we threw Guhle and Xhekaj straight into the fire, in a losing environment and they turned out OK isn't something to be proud of. It's an unnecessary risk.

And one of the main arguments I kept hearing against this was that they would be targeted by the "goons of the AHL". Turns out Slaf was targeted by NHLers anyway and Guhle's also on IR for an extended period. At least the Jacob Troubas and Tom Wilsons of the AHL can't keep up, that's why they're in the AHL.

Well when they're thrown straight into the fire and they turn out bad, everyone says they were rushed.

So isn't the opposite true now?

Thrown straight into the fire and they turned out OK means this is the optimal developmental path...right?

 

[ngc_5128]

I don't remember Curtis' situation but for sure the amount of access a reporter gets is going to be conditional to them playing it soft. So asking hard questions is basically a no win situation for reporters especially because asking a hard question(s) doesn't even get you an answer to those questions.

I think I had the wrong name. It's Brendan Kelly maybe? Anyway, Habs PR called his editor and they told them to get him to tone down the questions or they would yank the papers pass, so he was off the beat.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Is there anyone who actually believes Guhle or Xhekaj's development would have been stunted by playing in Laval?
Barron looks much better than at the start of the season, and of the three he's the only one who already had a year of pro experience (AHL/NHL) under his belt, so it seems like it's worked out fine for him.

What we have PLENTY of experience and evidence of is rushing prospects too early. So the fact that we threw Guhle and Xhekaj straight into the fire, in a losing environment and they turned out OK isn't something to be proud of. It's an unnecessary risk.

And one of the main arguments I kept hearing against this was that they would be targeted by the "goons of the AHL". Turns out Slaf was targeted by NHLers anyway and Guhle's also on IR for an extended period. At least the Jacob Troubas and Tom Wilsons of the AHL can't keep up, that's why they're in the AHL.

LOL. So you are the type that thinks Barron's development challenges are the same as Guhle or Xhekaj? Cool story bro. Hughes and Gorton are doing some things that Bergevin has done and they are idiots too? You as a fan on HF boards know more about development management? Don't you find it funny that some of us have spoken towards this and Hughes answer to this was similar? We either got lucky or we are idiots too I guess.

Keep thinking that everyone needs to play AHL first. That's on you, not me or our current management. The answer here is everyone is different and has different development challenges. It's fluid and you monitor it as time moves forward. That is what most teams have done and are doing. Everyone's path to the NHL is different. And the path to become impactful NHL players is about how much work and energy the player puts into it after they comprehend the coaching instructions well.

 

[schwang26]

Kh actually said this out loud?

Honestly, they aren't competing, everyone knew they weren't competing, so I appreciate the honesty. You have to rebuild through the draft and development. You have to try and draft high in the right years if you aren't a contender. We aren't winning squat with a team of Poehlings. Time for a Bedard in this town!

 

[JoelWarlord]

Is there anyone who actually believes Guhle or Xhekaj's development would have been stunted by playing in Laval? Barron looks much better than at the start of the season, and of the three he's the only one who already had a year of pro experience (AHL/NHL) under his belt, so it seems like it's worked out fine for him.

That's great for Barron and it's what he needed. Guhle and Xhekaj both came to camp ready to play, leaving no doubt that they were NHL-level players. Artificially restricting guys that are ready for the NHL just to check off a box of playing X number of games in the AHL doesn't make very much sense. Particularly when the team had tons of injuries to begin the year and the next available vets would have been scrubs like Schueneman and Bowey.

These guys aren't delicate flowers. Guhle is a D+3 player and Xhekaj is effectively in his D+4 season, and both are strong physical players.

What we have PLENTY of experience and evidence of is rushing prospects too early. So the fact that we threw Guhle and Xhekaj straight into the fire, in a losing environment and they turned out OK isn't something to be proud of. It's an unnecessary risk.

Not really. I can accept this argument with Slafkovsky even if I disagree with it as he was less ready than Guhle or Xhekaj, but there was very little "risked" by putting those defencemen in the NHL. They both proved they were ready and earned the spot and have continued to demonstrate they deserve an NHL roster spot since the season began.

 

[salbutera]

They shouldn’t be fine with it. They handled it poorly. If having a smile on your face and not beating yourself into a pulp after you make a mistake was the only prerequisite for playing in the NHL, there’d be a lot less guys riding buses in the minors. I’m not going to light them up for this yet as this is still a very salvageable situation obviously. Kids only 18.

As Hughes also stated, there are many facets to development including getting “a player acclimated to NA game and expecting returns of the development in 3-5 years”

Hughes purposely compared Slaf’s development in NHL vs Barron’s @ AHL - when responding to “there’s been lots of chatter about sending Slaf down to Laval” question by Engels

I don’t think a GM could ever admit that, losing on purpose is collusion no?

Nope - GM Tim Murray let it be known he traded Torrey Mitchell & Brian Flynn to Habs for dog biscuits because Ted Nolan was playing them too often & impacting potential of picking 1OA in 2015

 

[Playmaker09]

The only reason to rush young players to the NHL ASAP is if you're in a win-now environment and re trying to ice the best 23 man roster possible.

I actually understand bringing KK to the NHL at 18 even if it was wrong for his development. He made our team better.

This year we had the luxury of not having to care about winning at all costs and could easily afford to take it slow with our young players. There was no reason to do what we did whatsoever and risk pushing them too hard, too fast. We could have comfortably built a super team in Laval, had all our young players competing for a championship, develop chemistry together, then bring them all in next year as Tampa did with Palat - Johnson - Kucherov.

 

[Playmaker09]

Today, no one would say that...but before the season, I think most would have said Guhle straight to the NHL was repeating prior developmental mistakes.

Meanwhile, if anyone had told you Arber Xhekaj was going to spend the entire season in Montreal, people would have wanted Hughes head on a stake.

Personally, doesn't matter to me...it's really just about finding balance between development and playing time.

Well when they're thrown straight into the fire and they turn out bad, everyone says they were rushed.

So isn't the opposite true now?

Thrown straight into the fire and they turned out OK means this is the optimal developmental path...right?

It means we were fortunate to dodge a bullet.

My stance is consistent. Suzuki needed 2 years, Caufield needed 2+ years.
99% of players need at least one or more development years post draft. And more is always better than less. Slaf was not the exception.

 

[Naslundforever]

Kh actually said this out loud?

Said similar about playing vets to be able and trade them (and how injuries play into that). I love this guy.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Said similar about playing vets to be able and trade them (and how injuries play into that). I love this guy.

The thing about Kent is that he says things publicly that have already been disclosed to his team.

Nobody is learning anything new in that room. Transparency is huge.

 

[JoelWarlord]

The only reason to rush young players to the NHL ASAP is if you're in a win-now environment and re trying to ice the best 23 man roster possible.

This is a tautology because you're defining what "rush" means. If you want to describe Slafkovsky that way then sure, I disagree but it's certainly up for debate. But Xhekaj and Guhle? I really struggle to see how you could call those players rushed, both came into camp and secured a spot and both have been solid all year.

This year we had the luxury of not having to care about winning at all costs and could easily afford to take it slow with our young players.

Yes, and that's happening in the NHL. Nobody is under any delusions that the Habs are competing this year in or outside the organization and they are being allowed to develop and learn from mistakes in the NHL. How do you tell Guhle with a straight face that he didn't prove enough in camp and Corey Scheuneman deserves to start the year in the NHL instead of him?

had all our young players competing for a championship, develop chemistry together, then bring them all in next year as Tampa did with Palat - Johnson - Kucherov.

Kucherov played a total of 17 games in the AHL and entered the NHL as a D+3 player, the same age as Guhle, and Palat was the same age as Guhle when the made the jump too.

My stance is consistent. Suzuki needed 2 years, Caufield needed 2+ years.
99% of players need at least one or more development years post draft. And more is always better than less. Slaf was not the exception.

So why are you talking about Guhle and Xhekaj? Guhle played 2 years in the CHL after he was drafted, Xhekaj 3 after his draft year.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

The thing about Kent is that he says things publicly that have already been disclosed to his team.

Nobody is learning anything new in that room. Transparency is huge.

He'll also give praise in front of the media for his young players, which helps a ton with their confidence.

Dach moves from wing back to centre and has some very good games, Hughes mentions he's going to be a centre in this league.

Compared to: Galchenyuk puts up close to a point per game over like 60 games, Bergevin and our coaches say he's not good enough defensively and put him on the wing with Ott and Martinsen.

 

[Kimota]

I was reading a transcription on RDS...they say someone asked Hughes a question about tanking for Bedard, and his answer was along the lines of "I told MSL wins are good, but only up to a certain point"

anyone who watched/listened able to elaborate on what was said exactly? Seems surprising he'd imply he told the coach it's ok to tank/lose

Wow he really said that? That's interesting. So Marty is somehow aware of the tank. The whole thing must have turned against him the other day when he overplayed Dandonov. LOL

 

[themilosh]

Again - he speaks and carry's himself so well. Unlike that previous ape that spoke like he was eating a found sandwich in a gutter, while laying in a gutter.

"when the eff did you ever play Goalie for the Montreal Canadiens"

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I see lots of people lamenting Montreal beat reporters. Can someone please provide an example of a market where heavy questions are asked and answered during a media scrum or a press conference environment? I am in my mid 40's and have watched a fair amount of sports in my day. I can't recall any serious sports journalism stemming from one of these types of Q&A events. This is a genuine question, not just counter-whining.

The simple answer is that a lot of posters expect professionals at a press conference to ask questions like as agressively as an HF post does. It's very idiotic.

I was reading a transcription on RDS...they say someone asked Hughes a question about tanking for Bedard, and his answer was along the lines of "I told MSL wins are good, but only up to a certain point"

anyone who watched/listened able to elaborate on what was said exactly? Seems surprising he'd imply he told the coach it's ok to tank/lose

I don't think he's saying it's okay to lose on purpose. I think he's saying that wins/culture are good but there's no need to try and grind out points Torts/Hitchcock style. Play to win but don't do it at all costs in such a season.

 

[Kimota]

I like Hughes. He did everything he possibly could to tank this shitty roster. Not his fault Hoffman, Monty and Dadonov show up inopportunely to ruin the process.

There's one thing that he did that was anti-tank and that was aquiring Dach. I know they liked him(I did as well), they thought he would be a good young player with potential to act as a second line center. Their viewpoint was he has not emerged yet and all these young players will grow together. But adding him essentialy opened up the game for everyone, esp. helping CC and Suz a lot. I mean I get it, he was attractive. But it's a case where they should have gone all Chicago, hardcore rebuilt and not be tempted but interesting young players that you want to have. Just take the Isles pick. And then you may try getting Dach the year after.

 

[themilosh]

That's such a thorny issue. If the team really wanted to tank, it wouldn't come from Marty but from the pawns that would be left over after Hughes traded a few difference-makers.

Norm.. lol

 

[Gravity]

There's one thing that he did that was anti-tank and that was aquiring Dach. I know they liked him(I did as well), they thought he would be a good young player with potential to act as a second line center. Their viewpoint was he has not emerged yet and all these young players will grow together. But adding him essentialy opened up the game for everyone, esp. helping CC and Suz a lot. I mean I get it, he was attractive. But it's a case where they should have gone all Chicago, hardcore rebuilt and not be tempted but interesting young players that you want to have. Just take the Isles pick. And then you may try getting Dach the year after.

Getting Dach didn't ruin the tank though. It was shown repeatedly that when the Suzuki line was shut down, the team went quiet. These useless wins are due to plugs.

 

[Playmaker09]

This is a tautology because you're defining what "rush" means. If you want to describe Slafkovsky that way then sure, I disagree but it's certainly up for debate. But Xhekaj and Guhle? I really struggle to see how you could call those players rushed, both came into camp and secured a spot and both have been solid all year.

Yes, and that's happening in the NHL. Nobody is under any delusions that the Habs are competing this year in or outside the organization and they are being allowed to develop and learn from mistakes in the NHL. How do you tell Guhle with a straight face that he didn't prove enough in camp and Corey Scheuneman deserves to start the year in the NHL instead of him?

Kucherov played a total of 17 games in the AHL and entered the NHL as a D+3 player, the same age as Guhle, and Palat was the same age as Guhle when the made the jump too.

So why are you talking about Guhle and Xhekaj? Guhle played 2 years in the CHL after he was drafted, Xhekaj 3 after his draft year.

Killorn, not Kucherov, my bad. Kuch was the following year. Palat didn't make it till his D+5, Killorn till D+6, Johnson D+6. Kuch also started his D+3 in the AHL just as Barron has.

This is the same year Marty won the Art Ross and Stamkos came second. Yet the team finished in the lottery and picked Drouin.

You telling me these players weren't better than some of the other jabronis on their trash roster?

As the GM you tell them "This is what's best for your development. You're going to play big minutes in meaningful games. We'll call you when you're ready to play big minutes in the NHL, not just crack the roster".

Are we so short-sighted that we don't remember when we did exactly that for Patch? Or Caufield last year? And lo and behold, they're the two best goal scorers we developed in 30 years. I wonder why?

 

[417]

It means we were fortunate to dodge a bullet.

My stance is consistent. Suzuki needed 2 years, Caufield needed 2+ years.
99% of players need at least one or more development years post draft. And more is always better than less. Slaf was not the exception.

It's probably even more than that...

So we’re in agreement there, this was/is year 1 of the post draft development years.

What's the issue?

Is is it the fallacy that “the NHL isn't a developmental league”?

Cause that's not something people actually still believe right?

Development doesn't stop just because you've made it to the NHL.

Nick Suzuki and Cole Caufield, our 2 best players, are STILL developing as we speak.

Should we send them down too?

 

[JoelWarlord]

Killorn, not Kucherov, my bad. Kuch was the following year. Palat didn't make it till his D+5, Killorn till D+6, Johnson D+6. Kuch also started his D+3 in the AHL just as Barron has.

Yeah, and meanwhile Point/Hedman/Stamkos/Sergachev didn't spend any time in the AHL. They decided based on the individual players, not based on a rigid one size fits all approach. And no, I'm of course not comparing Xhekaj and Guhle to those guys, but just pointing out that Tampa also started guys right away if they deemed them ready too.

You telling me these players weren't better than some of the other jabronis on their trash roster?

Probably. The Lightning made that choice with those players because they felt those players weren't ready and would benefit from AHL time. The Canadiens made the same choice with eg. Ylonen and Barron because they felt they weren't ready and would benefit from AHL time, while they decided Guhle and Xhekaj (and Harris FWIW) were ready for the NHL and have been proven right since.

As the GM you tell them "This is what's best for your development. You're going to play big minutes in meaningful games. We'll call you when you're ready to play big minutes in the NHL, not just crack the roster".

That's what you tell Justin Barron. What you tell Kaiden Guhle and Arber Xhekaj is "you have earned a spot and are going to have the chance to play big minutes in the NHL", which is what they've done. I'm not opposed to the AHL and it was absolutely the right place for Barron, I just don't think it makes sense to force all players to check that box if they're leaving no doubt they're ready for the NHL.

Are we so short-sighted that we don't remember when we did exactly that for Patch? Or Caufield last year? And lo and behold, they're the two best goal scorers we developed in 30 years. I wonder why?

We didn't do it for Nick Suzuki or Brendan Gallagher. Caufield played 8 total AHL games, that has absolutely nothing with the player he's become. Different players develop at different speeds in different ways. There's no need to hold a player back when they're already in their age 21 or 22 seasons and are clearly ready for the NHL.

 

[McGees]

Wow he really said that? That's interesting. So Marty is somehow aware of the tank. The whole thing must have turned against him the other day when he overplayed Dandonov. LOL

The quote wasn't just that...

 

[SupRocket]

Norman Flynn with terrible takes after terrible takes on the 5a7, S tier clown.

Really assuring to have a management that now thinks long term. We just have to be patient as a fanbase.

 

[417]

Yeah, and meanwhile Point/Hedman/Stamkos/Sergachev didn't spend any time in the AHL. They decided based on the individual players, not based on a rigid one size fits all approach. And no, I'm of course not comparing Xhekaj and Guhle to those guys, but just pointing out that Tampa also started guys right away if they deemed them ready too.

Probably. The Lightning made that choice with those players because they felt those players weren't ready and would benefit from AHL time. The Canadiens made the same choice with eg. Ylonen and Barron because they felt they weren't ready and would benefit from AHL time, while they decided Guhle and Xhekaj (and Harris FWIW) were ready for the NHL and have been proven right since.

That's what you tell Justin Barron. What you tell Kaiden Guhle and Arber Xhekaj is "you have earned a spot and are going to have the chance to play big minutes in the NHL", which is what they've done. I'm not opposed to the AHL and it was absolutely the right place for Barron, I just don't think it makes sense to force all players to check that box if they're leaving no doubt they're ready for the NHL.

We didn't do it for Nick Suzuki or Brendan Gallagher. Caufield played 8 total AHL games, that has absolutely nothing with the player he's become. Different players develop

Yeah, and meanwhile Point/Hedman/Stamkos/Sergachev didn't spend any time in the AHL. They decided based on the individual players, not based on a rigid one size fits all approach. And no, I'm of course not comparing Xhekaj and Guhle to those guys, but just pointing out that Tampa also started guys right away if they deemed them ready too.

Probably. The Lightning made that choice with those players because they felt those players weren't ready and would benefit from AHL time. The Canadiens made the same choice with eg. Ylonen and Barron because they felt they weren't ready and would benefit from AHL time, while they decided Guhle and Xhekaj (and Harris FWIW) were ready for the NHL and have been proven right since.

That's what you tell Justin Barron. What you tell Kaiden Guhle and Arber Xhekaj is "you have earned a spot and are going to have the chance to play big minutes in the NHL", which is what they've done. I'm not opposed to the AHL and it was absolutely the right place for Barron, I just don't think it makes sense to force all players to check that box if they're leaving no doubt they're ready for the NHL.

We didn't do it for Nick Suzuki or Brendan Gallagher. Caufield played 8 total AHL games, that has absolutely nothing with the player he's become. Different players develop at different speeds in different ways. There's no need to hold a player back when they're already in their age 21 or 22 seasons and are clearly ready for the NHL.

Good post.

On the topic of Justin Barron, I know he played a good game last night and this we’re all prisoners of the moment, but since his recall, he's pretty much looked exactly like the same player he was at camp and last year.

Him playing in the AHL didn't magically alter his DNA as a player.

What Barron needs the most is reps...the Montreal Canadiens didn't have the roster a spot and minutes to provide him with that, Laval did, that's why he went down there.

Because of injuries, he's back with Montreal and he's getting those reps again.

 

[DAChampion]

Did he really tell MSL not to win too many games?