Keep/Fire Drury and/or Laviolette

[Machinehead]

eh

I don't disagree completely but there was something lacking in the effort and play this year that was there last year. They won a lot of 1 goal games and were "lucky" partly because they kept after it game after game and didn't wilt or give up when they lost a lead or shit like that. I don't know that it's quantifiable but it was a real thing. To some extent you "make your luck" by playing like that. "No Quit in NY" was a real thing for those years.

This year it was all quit all the time which was probably the most frustrating part IMO. It wasn't just a regression in an analytics sense, but in the resilience and effort of the team overall.

Idk, people couldn't wait to say the team quit the last few years as soon as it went bad, especially the series in 2023 (where they straight up lost to a higher seed BTW) and now that they're getting the results they deserve it's "where was the effort from the last few years?"

It's trying to have it both ways. People called out the effort the entire run when they were "good." A lot of people always do that. They have an 82-0 roster and every loss is a lack of effort.

 

[DaBadGuy7]

Sather as President of Hockey Ops was the perfect role. He flexed his Dolan-shielding powers but empowered his GM/other folks to make managerial and roster decisions.

That’s fair, but my overarching point is that overall Sather’s tenure was mostly eh if you look at the rosters and teams he built post-lockout until Gorton took over. The 14 and 15 were his best teams, but unfortunately those teams were good, but not good enough (which is sadly the epitomizes the franchise’s history). That is because he never was able to properly draft and develop elite talent, which forces him to either trade or sign B level stars that couldn’t raise their level in the playoffs. That’s why the Rangers now back to where they are pre-letter. Until the overhaul how they draft, develop, and build their rosters, they always be a team that will fall short imo.

 

[Levitate]

Idk, people couldn't wait to say the team quit the last few years as soon as it went bad, especially the series in 2023 (where they straight up lost to a higher seed BTW) and now that they're getting the results they deserve it's "where was the effort from the last few years?"

It's trying to have it both ways. People called out the effort the entire run when they were "good." A lot of people always do that. They have an 82-0 roster and every loss is a lack of effort.

I mean, I"m not talking about what other people may have said, lol

I don't think they quit, they either ran out of gas or just lost to a better team as you say
That people said that doesn't have a real bearing on what happened. IMO the effort or resilience etc from previous years wasn't there this year in addition to the general regression etc etc. I'm not trying to have it boths ways here and I'm not commenting on the people who are

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Obviously there's a ton of stuff we don't know. It's easy to say, they just quit because it kinda squares with the results. But it's odd to think the same guys that were so close last year, guys running out of time career and contract wise just said f*** it, we're done, we're not trying. One of the beat writers is going to post a scorcher a few days after break up day. Maybe they'll shed some light on this whole debacle.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

Hey dude, you realize that Trouba had a LIMITED NTC. Use your brain.

He didn't during the timeframe you were discussing. GTFO with your 60 posts.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

I loved Kreider up until this year but I'm not going to excuse him for his performance this year and whatever role he had in this disaster of a locker room and season. Either his leadership and his play wasn't good enough, or he was actively part of the problem, either way it's pretty bad.

I'm happy as hell to move on from Drury but I'm also pretty damn skeptical that Dolan would hire someone useful. Who the hell would advise him on that? Is he gonna call up Slats again and say "help me out buddy I need recommendations for a new GM"?
I know he's technically still "senior advisor" but I dunno. Guess it depends on how active he is with the team these days. If he is still active I imagine he's not happy with this bullshit either.

If the Rangers, whoever is acting on their behalf, actually identified a good GM candidate to replace Drury then great. If not, my one hope is that Drury has learned some shit about player management and communication this year and that he can't just run roughshod over the players

On the players front, I definitely have gotten the feeling that the team being so "close knit" and "tight" recently has given some of them an overinflated sense of importance in regards to the franchise. Like, their group being buddies together is more important than the team success. Oh I'm sure they believed they would be successful and they were to an extent but over and over they've also ended up seeming complacent and overconfident in their games and too comfortable being the buddy squad in NY

Also fine with the coaches going. Overall I don't think it's Lavy's fault that the team tanked this season, that's on the players, but he didn't do squat to fix or mitigate it or anything. That he's still running the same power play out there with 7 games left in the season is mind boggling. My dude, it's not gonna suddenly catch fire. That time has gone long long ago this season. Now you just plain look foolish.
I know he's a vets first kinda coach but it seems like some of that deference to the vets has also undermined the team in the end. No urgency, just complacency on this team. Players can talk all they want about how they're trying or whatever but this team ain't doin shit and I don't give a damn what they might try to say to defend themselves on that one. You can see the lowest skills, worst team in the league outwork this team on any given night.

I took a "GM's need time to cook" stance all season and gave Drury every chance to win me over. I conceded that Gorton made most of the mess and that Drury deserved a chance to clean it up.

He's been horrible the past year. The first bad sign was the Emery pick. Again, maybe not super consequential in and of itself but indicative of what he values.

I'll blame Trouba pouting on the incident over the summer, but at the same time, Trouba most likely saved us from Drury giving out a dumb contract.

The Igor deal is absolutely crippling. I try to give some grace on bad contracts because, in a lot of cases, you knew the guy's best years were behind him, but that's who was available, and there's nobody to fill the role he has. That's how UFA status works. With Igor, we walked right into an alligator's mouth. His agent came right out and said he wants the biggest contract of all-time, he's demonstrably not the best goalie in the league at this point, and we just handed him his demands anyway. And let's be honest, he is replaceable.

Then he trades a first for Miller. He sold it as a culture change which I don't see at all. Miller has been traded three times now for not fitting in. This is a guy that's changing a team's culture? He still plays the way he played when he was here the first time, which is to say he has a lot of bad habits.

Chytil is injuring himself into being a non-asset and was the first rounder the most important thing in the world? Maybe not, especially if Drury ends up taking it, but again, it's just indicative of who this guy is and what he thinks. He papered over a hole because squeaking into the playoffs was more important than a long-term plan.

He trades Lindgren and sells off some assets at the deadline, and I thought that was good, and maybe he was getting it. He then turns around and burns an asset to get Carson Soucy, for a role Calvin de Haan was already playing well in, because Carson Soucy was such a once in a lifetime talent that we had to have him.

And here's what we can reasonably conclude after this year of Drury:

-You can say Gorton made the picks but development hasn't gotten any better. Kakko is gone. Lafreniere went straight backwards. Drury's own pick plays game 22 tonight and doesn't have a goal in the NHL. You can blame the coach -- who hired the coach?

-With Drury drafting for a small handful of years now, our defense and center pipeline is arguably the worst in the league.

-He tripled down on "let's get into the playoffs!" with the Miller trade and some of the deadline deals and his team responded by winning like four games after March 1st.

-His fetish for lumbering, untalented defensemen is unlike anything I've seen, and that's clearing a f***in bar in this league. At least Sather brought in McDonagh and Stralman. Hell, Gorton brought in DeAngelo and, you know, Adam Fox. Drury takes 15-point defensemen and prioritizes getting them like the Yankees and Mets bidding over an MVP candidate.

-He sort of touched on culture change, so at least he addressed it I guess, but they still play like morons and there hasn't been a consequential move made to the core of the team. If anything, he added another immovable contract to it paid out to a player who plays the same way!

He's actively making the team less skilled, while at the same time, not even correcting what they were doing wrong in the first place.

Just wanted to say you guys killed it on these posts. Said everything that my brain has been thinking but can’t type. Nice work

 

[McRanger92]

Rangers may not have quit in any of the playoff series they’ve lost over the last 3 seasons, but they had at least a 1-2 game lead in all 3. They got punched in the mouth and folded too often for my liking.

 

[Mike in Houston]

Obviously there's a ton of stuff we don't know. It's easy to say, they just quit because it kinda squares with the results. But it's odd to think the same guys that were so close last year, guys running out of time career and contract wise just said f*** it, we're done, we're not trying. One of the beat writers is going to post a scorcher a few days after break up day. Maybe they'll shed some light on this whole debacle.

Yup. The core was like, "Screw the Cup! We quit! That'll show 'em!"

Time in any professional sport is fleeting. You never know when it's all going to be over. So to sabotage your team's and your own chance to win the ultimate prize because you want to make some kind of statement is completely absurd to me.

And furthermore.... is there a precedent for this in the NHL? Has something like that ever happened?

 

[Machinehead]

I voted both Drury and Lavi should be let go, With Lavi its obvious he's lost the team and is completely out of ideas at this point. With Drury my reasons for wanting him gone are largely due to the non Trouba/Goodrow moves (Buch, adding Soucy, resigning Lindgren, Igor deal, etc.). My question for everyone pinning this season solely on Drury's summer moves, he did exactly what 90%+ of the fan base was pining for, which was find a way to get out of the Trouba and Goodrow contracts. What could he have done differently?

There's nothing Drury could have done to make the team immediately better.

He inherited a team that already went as far as it was going to go and was close to getting old.

What he hasn't done is convince me that he represents a new direction. He replaced those problem contracts with different contracts that I already want to get rid of. He replaced defensemen playing above their station with different defensemen playing above their station.

 

[lilphildub]

I’d be ok keeping Drury for another year. I think they can turn things around with a few savvy signings in the offseason. He made a few trades I think most people on the boards wanted to see (Trouba, Lindgren, Kakko, Miller) but aren’t happy because it didn’t work the way they thought it would. This group has another playoff run or two left in them with a few upgrades.

Laviolette I’d lean toward firing. The defensive breakdowns and man to man system is a disaster. Way too often does the offense look like there’s no support and cycling with no real plan. JT Miller playing great until he adjusted to the team’s system is very telling to me. The powerplay falling apart and sending the same guys out there. The players have a part in it but not adjusting on the coaches end is a problem. When Trouba and Goodrow were traded, the players were struggling and I think the coaches job is to take control of the room. Didn’t happen. It showed on the ice and many players have spoken about it.

Get rid of Laviolette or at least Housley to implement a better defensive system. Sign an upgrade on D and some forward depth. Get rid of Kreider in the offseason or get him back to healthy. And I think they’re back to the playoffs next year. This year has been a down year for almost every player. I don’t think every guy declined hard at the same time. A new coach can reset the players.

 

[Graves97]

There's nothing Drury could have done to make the team immediately better.

He inherited a team that already went as far as it was going to go and was close to getting old.

What he hasn't done is convince me that he represents a new direction. He replaced those problem contracts with different contracts that I already want to get rid of. He replaced defensemen playing above their station with different defensemen playing above their station.

Agree with you here. I was referring to the Trouba and Goodrow situations with regards to what could he have done differently without further handcuffing the team. His other decisions this season have largely been asinine and out of desperation.

 

[IDvsEGO]

If you’re keeping drury and only giving him 1 year then you fire him.
I’ve defending him this year as I think he has identified the problem and done decently.
But you cannot have a gm looking at one year, especially a team that probably needs to bottom out for a year.
because they need confidence they can get through the bounce back years.

 

[mrhockey193195]

That’s fair, but my overarching point is that overall Sather’s tenure was mostly eh if you look at the rosters and teams he built post-lockout until Gorton took over. The 14 and 15 were his best teams, but unfortunately those teams were good, but not good enough (which is sadly the epitomizes the franchise’s history). That is because he never was able to properly draft and develop elite talent, which forces him to either trade or sign B level stars that couldn’t raise their level in the playoffs. That’s why the Rangers now back to where they are pre-letter. Until the overhaul how they draft, develop, and build their rosters, they always be a team that will fall short imo.

100%, agreed on all counts.

 

[Longterm]

I think any time you send out a memo on blast to all the other GMs you can expect it to find its way to the media. If not, then that's pretty naive on Drury's part

That said the reactions to it are pretty laughable. Oh no, a GM is interested in moving some players. Even a vet and well regarded player like Kreider, who as much as I've liked, hasn't won shit or led this team anywhere of note.



Yeah this just kills me...it'd be one thing if Igor was out there doing crazy shit game in and game out and living up to that contract but he's out there giving up soft goals and being out played on a nightly basis over and over and over.

And you know what...dragging the team to the ECF or whatever a few times doesn't mean that the team owes it to him to give him that huge contract and the argument of "this team is crap without Igor!" is foolish because well shit then let's change the team so they're actually good and not relying on the goalie

He needs to at least vaguely live up to this contract or what a huge goddamn waste.


But yeah ultimately, most of his moves have been for middling players at this point. If this team had a direction forward then I'd shrug about the Miller trade, but as it is it's like...why? Where's the team going? How are they getting the talent to do anything when you're filling them with 4th liners and 3rd pairing defensemen?

and for the love of god why can't anyone give Fox a decent partner?

oh yeah and as for coaches, if they're gonna fire Lavy, yes I want to see them go with someone who's not a retread. Let's not run out to go hire Quinville or something. It's just the same shit all over in that case.
But also, if you get a "fresh" coach, you gotta break up the buddy culture in the locker room

The argument that Igor’s contract is “not that bad” because the cap is going up bothers me. Maybe in a few years every goalie will be making 11+ mm and Igor will be a bargain, but next year every other team will have more to spend on other players because they spend less for their top goalie.
Been following the team since Gump and Giacomin. We have largely been blessed with superior goaltending for decades. One cup. Maybe try something else.

 

[jaywills1020]

Don't we say this all the time? They weren't going to sign here because Redden was sent down to Hartford, they weren't going to sign because Gomez was traded just 2 years after signing his deal.
Yet they keep signing here.
And pending UFA Shesterkin signed here, as did pending UFA Borgen.

It is entirely possible that all players dislike Drury enough to say 'no' (and there's players who choose to sign elsewhere every season), but it seems unlikely that in a closed market everyone is going stop considering the Rangers

What Drury did is completely different. Total disrespect to those 2 guys and the league most definitely took notice. We’ll see what happens come July.

 

[mike14]

What Drury did is completely different. Total disrespect to those 2 guys and the league most definitely took notice. We’ll see what happens come July.

But why wait until July? Igor signed after, Borgen signed after, Miller asked to come here (apparently). We know these things have happened.
Speculating in July about whether we made a serious offer to a UFA and whether they rejected us due to opportunity/lifestyle elsewhere, or because Drury is a massive wanker, seems far more subjective...

 

[McRanger92]

No shot on a 2 on 1 and it’s in our net the other way. Shocker!

 

[McRanger92]

Fans heading for the exits yet?

Wrong thread but who even gives a shit?

 

[Psycho4Perreault]

When people make lists of the smartest/dumbest nhl fan bases and we come in last, they will use this poll and show that 22% of Rangers fans want to keep Drury. Yikes.

 

[Homelander]

He didn't during the timeframe you were discussing. GTFO with your 60 posts.

Yes he did, you maroon. That's why he was asked to submit his list by July 1st.

 

[Homelander]

When people make lists of the smartest/dumbest nhl fan bases and we come in last, they will use this poll and show that 22% of Rangers fans want to keep Drury. Yikes.

Most of the people who voted for keeping Drury are not Rangers fans. I can see the results.


And those few Rangers fans who think Drury deserves another shot have shit for brains

 

[mas0764]

I agree with most of this but I think a retool right now is probably the proper course. Move Kreider, see if you can move Mika, either resign Panarin or trade him, keeping Fox, Miller, Schneider and do whatever with the rest. Go from there. Retool with a purpose, don't just go swinging for whoever is the shiny new toy.

Sure but moving out that much talent is enough to pick in the top 5-10 for a while. Maybe Fox is young enough to see the other side.

 

[mas0764]

I took a "GM's need time to cook" stance all season and gave Drury every chance to win me over. I conceded that Gorton made most of the mess and that Drury deserved a chance to clean it up.

He's been horrible the past year. The first bad sign was the Emery pick. Again, maybe not super consequential in and of itself but indicative of what he values.

I'll blame Trouba pouting on the incident over the summer, but at the same time, Trouba most likely saved us from Drury giving out a dumb contract.

The Igor deal is absolutely crippling. I try to give some grace on bad contracts because, in a lot of cases, you knew the guy's best years were behind him, but that's who was available, and there's nobody to fill the role he has. That's how UFA status works. With Igor, we walked right into an alligator's mouth. His agent came right out and said he wants the biggest contract of all-time, he's demonstrably not the best goalie in the league at this point, and we just handed him his demands anyway. And let's be honest, he is replaceable.

Then he trades a first for Miller. He sold it as a culture change which I don't see at all. Miller has been traded three times now for not fitting in. This is a guy that's changing a team's culture? He still plays the way he played when he was here the first time, which is to say he has a lot of bad habits.

Chytil is injuring himself into being a non-asset and was the first rounder the most important thing in the world? Maybe not, especially if Drury ends up taking it, but again, it's just indicative of who this guy is and what he thinks. He papered over a hole because squeaking into the playoffs was more important than a long-term plan.

He trades Lindgren and sells off some assets at the deadline, and I thought that was good, and maybe he was getting it. He then turns around and burns an asset to get Carson Soucy, for a role Calvin de Haan was already playing well in, because Carson Soucy was such a once in a lifetime talent that we had to have him.

And here's what we can reasonably conclude after this year of Drury:

-You can say Gorton made the picks but development hasn't gotten any better. Kakko is gone. Lafreniere went straight backwards. Drury's own pick plays game 22 tonight and doesn't have a goal in the NHL. You can blame the coach -- who hired the coach?

-With Drury drafting for a small handful of years now, our defense and center pipeline is arguably the worst in the league.

-He tripled down on "let's get into the playoffs!" with the Miller trade and some of the deadline deals and his team responded by winning like four games after March 1st.

-His fetish for lumbering, untalented defensemen is unlike anything I've seen, and that's clearing a f***in bar in this league. At least Sather brought in McDonagh and Stralman. Hell, Gorton brought in DeAngelo and, you know, Adam Fox. Drury takes 15-point defensemen and prioritizes getting them like the Yankees and Mets bidding over an MVP candidate.

-He sort of touched on culture change, so at least he addressed it I guess, but they still play like morons and there hasn't been a consequential move made to the core of the team. If anything, he added another immovable contract to it paid out to a player who plays the same way!

He's actively making the team less skilled, while at the same time, not even correcting what they were doing wrong in the first place.

Preach it. Skill first!

 

[Homelander]

I'm honestly not sure what's worse: the moves Drury made or what Drury DIDN'T do (e.g., fire Laviolette when the season was still salvageable)

 

[mas0764]

It’s not Drury’s fault the locker room was weak. The leadership group has been in place for years and we always had concerns with the team leaving meat on the bone in terms of effort and intensity. Judge him on his actual moves and he’s about 50/50. I wouldn’t be opposed to firing him. The dynamic between him and the coach is highly concerning. He fought with Gallant as we know. And with Laviolette it’s one of 2 things. Either Laviolette is deliberately not playing the kids, and Drury has no sway over him, or Drury is in support of doubling down on the vets down the stretch. Both are bad.

Who replaces Drury if he gets canned? Im sure Messier will be considered for a role. Dolan isn’t hiring the next analytics wunderkind du jour lol. It’s going to be someone with experience and ties to the organization. Don’t shoot the messenger.

The organization is clueless, has no answers for the modern era and we are screwed for another generation. That tracks.