Keep/Fire Drury and/or Laviolette

[GoAwayPanarin]

No. It's speculation.

Pretty clear that he’s just going through the motions. It’s been particularly bad since his most recent return from IR.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

No. It's speculation.

In your head, i’m sure it is.

 

[Mike in Houston]

In your head, i’m sure it is.

Yup. And I'm not going to engage in all the insanity that comes from this board every freaking day repeating the same nonsense over and over and over and over and over.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Yup. And I'm not going to engage in all the insanity that comes from this board every freaking day repeating the same nonsense over and over and over and over and over.

That’s good, and in 7 games we wont ever have to worry about it again, which i’m sure we are all happy about.

 

[Mike in Houston]

That’s good, and in 7 games we wont ever have to worry about it again, which i’m sure we are all happy about.

I'm with you. I'll personally miss him and wait for his number to be retired.

And then I'll look forward to the next player that will become to most popular to shit on endlessly.

 

[UnparalledPark]

Don't we say this all the time? They weren't going to sign here because Redden was sent down to Hartford, they weren't going to sign because Gomez was traded just 2 years after signing his deal.
Yet they keep signing here.
And pending UFA Shesterkin signed here, as did pending UFA Borgen.

It is entirely possible that all players dislike Drury enough to say 'no' (and there's players who choose to sign elsewhere every season), but it seems unlikely that in a closed market everyone is going stop considering the Rangers

yes with coaches because they're actually dealing with the team day to day.

I said as much earlier, Coaching matters so I don't know what you're getting at.

The GM stuff is nonsense. Look at Tampa.

Applying the why to Tampa’s decision making is irrelevant. They chose to move on from a very popular player and the current locker room was not happy about it. Drury moved on from players who were much worse and less established.

Threatening waivers happened in Tampa too btw (see:McDonagh, who they ended up bringing back.)

Players get traded and leave all the time. Teams usually get over it. Tampa did, Rangers did not.

Kreider had the option to play better. He’s responded with the worst full season of his career and has looked like he doesnt give a single f*** about it.

Way to show management that you want to
Stay.

Tampa screwed one player, but they obviously were humane about it because Ryan went back there. There is a much longer list of players Drury has interacted with in an adverse manner. Also Lavi has admitted he agreed with Drury’s move, so in this case coach and GM are in sync. Tampa’s GM did not trash his player publicly, bring his family into it, or leak about dumping multiple players. Tampa’s GM also has the guts and decency to show up to press conferences to explain himself. Sorry, but Drury just does not comport himself in a manner that I would expect from an organization as prestigious as the New York Rangers.

Also, Tampa really did have a salary cap emergency; whereas Drury continues to believe he has an emergency, than does things to make it actually happen.

 

[Levitate]

I loved Kreider up until this year but I'm not going to excuse him for his performance this year and whatever role he had in this disaster of a locker room and season. Either his leadership and his play wasn't good enough, or he was actively part of the problem, either way it's pretty bad.

I'm happy as hell to move on from Drury but I'm also pretty damn skeptical that Dolan would hire someone useful. Who the hell would advise him on that? Is he gonna call up Slats again and say "help me out buddy I need recommendations for a new GM"?
I know he's technically still "senior advisor" but I dunno. Guess it depends on how active he is with the team these days. If he is still active I imagine he's not happy with this bullshit either.

If the Rangers, whoever is acting on their behalf, actually identified a good GM candidate to replace Drury then great. If not, my one hope is that Drury has learned some shit about player management and communication this year and that he can't just run roughshod over the players

On the players front, I definitely have gotten the feeling that the team being so "close knit" and "tight" recently has given some of them an overinflated sense of importance in regards to the franchise. Like, their group being buddies together is more important than the team success. Oh I'm sure they believed they would be successful and they were to an extent but over and over they've also ended up seeming complacent and overconfident in their games and too comfortable being the buddy squad in NY

Also fine with the coaches going. Overall I don't think it's Lavy's fault that the team tanked this season, that's on the players, but he didn't do squat to fix or mitigate it or anything. That he's still running the same power play out there with 7 games left in the season is mind boggling. My dude, it's not gonna suddenly catch fire. That time has gone long long ago this season. Now you just plain look foolish.
I know he's a vets first kinda coach but it seems like some of that deference to the vets has also undermined the team in the end. No urgency, just complacency on this team. Players can talk all they want about how they're trying or whatever but this team ain't doin shit and I don't give a damn what they might try to say to defend themselves on that one. You can see the lowest skills, worst team in the league outwork this team on any given night.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Tampa screwed one player, but they obviously were humane about it because Ryan went back there. There is a much longer list of players Drury has interacted with in an adverse manner. Also Lavi has admitted he agreed with Drury’s move, so in this case coach and GM are in sync. Tampa’s GM did not trash his player publicly, bring his family into it, or leak about dumping multiple players. Tampa’s GM also has the guts and decency to show up to press conferences to explain himself. Sorry, but Drury just does not comport himself in a manner that I would expect from an organization as prestigious as the New York Rangers.

Also, Tampa really did have a salary cap emergency; whereas Drury continues to believe he has an emergency, than does things to make it actually happen.

When did drury publicly his player(s) or bring the family into it?

You realize that the memo only went public because it got leaked to the media right? He didn’t directly it to Serevalli and Dreger.

 

[Machinehead]

I took a "GM's need time to cook" stance all season and gave Drury every chance to win me over. I conceded that Gorton made most of the mess and that Drury deserved a chance to clean it up.

He's been horrible the past year. The first bad sign was the Emery pick. Again, maybe not super consequential in and of itself but indicative of what he values.

I'll blame Trouba pouting on the incident over the summer, but at the same time, Trouba most likely saved us from Drury giving out a dumb contract.

The Igor deal is absolutely crippling. I try to give some grace on bad contracts because, in a lot of cases, you knew the guy's best years were behind him, but that's who was available, and there's nobody to fill the role he has. That's how UFA status works. With Igor, we walked right into an alligator's mouth. His agent came right out and said he wants the biggest contract of all-time, he's demonstrably not the best goalie in the league at this point, and we just handed him his demands anyway. And let's be honest, he is replaceable.

Then he trades a first for Miller. He sold it as a culture change which I don't see at all. Miller has been traded three times now for not fitting in. This is a guy that's changing a team's culture? He still plays the way he played when he was here the first time, which is to say he has a lot of bad habits.

Chytil is injuring himself into being a non-asset and was the first rounder the most important thing in the world? Maybe not, especially if Drury ends up taking it, but again, it's just indicative of who this guy is and what he thinks. He papered over a hole because squeaking into the playoffs was more important than a long-term plan.

He trades Lindgren and sells off some assets at the deadline, and I thought that was good, and maybe he was getting it. He then turns around and burns an asset to get Carson Soucy, for a role Calvin de Haan was already playing well in, because Carson Soucy was such a once in a lifetime talent that we had to have him.

And here's what we can reasonably conclude after this year of Drury:

-You can say Gorton made the picks but development hasn't gotten any better. Kakko is gone. Lafreniere went straight backwards. Drury's own pick plays game 22 tonight and doesn't have a goal in the NHL. You can blame the coach -- who hired the coach?

-With Drury drafting for a small handful of years now, our defense and center pipeline is arguably the worst in the league.

-He tripled down on "let's get into the playoffs!" with the Miller trade and some of the deadline deals and his team responded by winning like four games after March 1st.

-His fetish for lumbering, untalented defensemen is unlike anything I've seen, and that's clearing a f***in bar in this league. At least Sather brought in McDonagh and Stralman. Hell, Gorton brought in DeAngelo and, you know, Adam Fox. Drury takes 15-point defensemen and prioritizes getting them like the Yankees and Mets bidding over an MVP candidate.

-He sort of touched on culture change, so at least he addressed it I guess, but they still play like morons and there hasn't been a consequential move made to the core of the team. If anything, he added another immovable contract to it paid out to a player who plays the same way!

He's actively making the team less skilled, while at the same time, not even correcting what they were doing wrong in the first place.

 

[UnparalledPark]

Precious as in we all have eyes and can see he doesn't give a shit on the ice? That’s not speculation that’s fact, whether your rosey glasses want you to see that or not.

7 games left of this loser.

Speculation - the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence. We all can see that Kreider is not playing up to his past performances. As to why, is speculation for everyone.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I'm with you. I'll personally miss him and wait for his number to be retired.

And then I'll look forward to the next player that will become to most popular to shit on endlessly.

They have already been identified, Laf and Igor. I’m not against either however.

 

[Levitate]

When did drury publicly his player(s) or bring the family into it?

You realize that the memo only went public because it got leaked to the media right? He didn’t directly it to Serevalli and Dreger.

I think any time you send out a memo on blast to all the other GMs you can expect it to find its way to the media. If not, then that's pretty naive on Drury's part

That said the reactions to it are pretty laughable. Oh no, a GM is interested in moving some players. Even a vet and well regarded player like Kreider, who as much as I've liked, hasn't won shit or led this team anywhere of note.

The Igor deal is absolutely crippling. I try to give some grace on bad contracts because, in a lot of cases, you knew the guy's best years were behind him, but that's who was available, and there's nobody to fill the role he has. That's how UFA status works. With Igor, we walked right into an alligator's mouth. His agent came right out and said he wants the biggest contract of all-time, he's demonstrably not the best goalie in the league at this point, and we just handed him his demands anyway. And let's be honest, he is replaceable.

Yeah this just kills me...it'd be one thing if Igor was out there doing crazy shit game in and game out and living up to that contract but he's out there giving up soft goals and being out played on a nightly basis over and over and over.

And you know what...dragging the team to the ECF or whatever a few times doesn't mean that the team owes it to him to give him that huge contract and the argument of "this team is crap without Igor!" is foolish because well shit then let's change the team so they're actually good and not relying on the goalie

He needs to at least vaguely live up to this contract or what a huge goddamn waste.


But yeah ultimately, most of his moves have been for middling players at this point. If this team had a direction forward then I'd shrug about the Miller trade, but as it is it's like...why? Where's the team going? How are they getting the talent to do anything when you're filling them with 4th liners and 3rd pairing defensemen?

and for the love of god why can't anyone give Fox a decent partner?

oh yeah and as for coaches, if they're gonna fire Lavy, yes I want to see them go with someone who's not a retread. Let's not run out to go hire Quinville or something. It's just the same shit all over in that case.
But also, if you get a "fresh" coach, you gotta break up the buddy culture in the locker room

 

[Mike in Houston]

They have already been identified, Laf and Igor. I’m not against either however.

No no no! There is always some dark horse that comes out of nowhere.

 

[UnparalledPark]

I took a "GM's need time to cook" stance all season and gave Drury every chance to win me over. I conceded that Gorton made most of the mess and that Drury deserved a chance to clean it up.

He's been horrible the past year. The first bad sign was the Emery pick. Again, maybe not super consequential in and of itself but indicative of what he values.

I'll blame Trouba pouting on the incident over the summer, but at the same time, Trouba most likely saved us from Drury giving out a dumb contract.

The Igor deal is absolutely crippling. I try to give some grace on bad contracts because, in a lot of cases, you knew the guy's best years were behind him, but that's who was available, and there's nobody to fill the role he has. That's how UFA status works. With Igor, we walked right into an alligator's mouth. His agent came right out and said he wants the biggest contract of all-time, he's demonstrably not the best goalie in the league at this point, and we just handed him his demands anyway. And let's be honest, he is replaceable.

Then he trades a first for Miller. He sold it as a culture change which I don't see at all. Miller has been traded three times now for not fitting in. This is a guy that's changing a team's culture? He still plays the way he played when he was here the first time, which is to say he has a lot of bad habits.

Chytil is injuring himself into being a non-asset and was the first rounder the most important thing in the world? Maybe not, especially if Drury ends up taking it, but again, it's just indicative of who this guy is and what he thinks. He papered over a hole because squeaking into the playoffs was more important than a long-term plan.

He trades Lindgren and sells off some assets at the deadline, and I thought that was good, and maybe he was getting it. He then turns around and burns an asset to get Carson Soucy, for a role Calvin de Haan was already playing well in, because Carson Soucy was such a once in a lifetime talent that we had to have him.

And here's what we can reasonably conclude after this year of Drury:

-You can say Gorton made the picks but development hasn't gotten any better. Kakko is gone. Lafreniere went straight backwards. Drury's own pick plays game 22 tonight and doesn't have a goal in the NHL. You can blame the coach -- who hired the coach?

-With Drury drafting for a small handful of years now, our defense and center pipeline is arguably the worst in the league.

-He tripled down on "let's get into the playoffs!" with the Miller trade and some of the deadline deals and his team responded by winning like four games after March 1st.

-His fetish for lumbering, untalented defensemen is unlike anything I've seen, and that's clearing a f***in bar in this league. At least Sather brought in McDonagh and Stralman. Hell, Gorton brought in DeAngelo and, you know, Adam Fox. Drury takes 15-point defensemen and prioritizes getting them like the Yankees and Mets bidding over an MVP candidate.

-He sort of touched on culture change, so at least he addressed it I guess, but they still play like morons and there hasn't been a consequential move made to the core of the team. If anything, he added another immovable contract to it paid out to a player who plays the same way!

He's actively making the team less skilled, while at the same time, not even correcting what they were doing wrong in the first place.

Nice post.

 

[Graves97]

Tampa is totally incomparable.

They didn’t sign an out of contract, injury prone player. We obviously weren’t having these conversations if someone’s contract expired and we didn’t sign him.

Different to dishonouring contract clauses (or at least exploiting) by threatening him with waivers if he doesn’t leave or sending out emails about how a guy who just carried you through game 6 v the hurricanes and is your longest serving player and one of your best big game performers isn’t wanted.

That does and very clearly did have an impact.

I dont see how Drury exploited Trouba's contract. He used the negotiated terms of the deal, much like Trouba did when he added Detroit to his M-NTC. If anything, Trouba's agent did a poor job of negotiating and should have known Trouba needed a NMC if he wanted to eliminate this potential risk.

 

[UnparalledPark]

I'm with you. I'll personally miss him and wait for his number to be retired.

And then I'll look forward to the next player that will become to most popular to shit on endlessly.

I’m sure that won’t take long. I just hope Crypto doesn’t go into withdrawals.

 

[McRanger92]

It’s not Drury’s fault the locker room was weak. The leadership group has been in place for years and we always had concerns with the team leaving meat on the bone in terms of effort and intensity. Judge him on his actual moves and he’s about 50/50. I wouldn’t be opposed to firing him. The dynamic between him and the coach is highly concerning. He fought with Gallant as we know. And with Laviolette it’s one of 2 things. Either Laviolette is deliberately not playing the kids, and Drury has no sway over him, or Drury is in support of doubling down on the vets down the stretch. Both are bad.

Who replaces Drury if he gets canned? Im sure Messier will be considered for a role. Dolan isn’t hiring the next analytics wunderkind du jour lol. It’s going to be someone with experience and ties to the organization. Don’t shoot the messenger.

 

[Levitate]

It’s not Drury’s fault the locker room was weak. The leadership group has been in place for years and we always had concerns with the team leaving meat on the bone in terms of effort and intensity. Judge him on his actual moves and he’s about 50/50. I wouldn’t be opposed to firing him. The dynamic between him and the coach is highly concerning. He fought with Gallant as we know. And with Laviolette it’s one of 2 things. Either Laviolette is deliberately not playing the kids, and Drury has no sway over him, or Drury is in support of doubling down on the vets down the stretch. Both are bad.

Who replaces Drury if he gets canned? Im sure Messier will be considered for a role. Dolan isn’t hiring the next analytics wunderkind du jour lol. It’s going to be someone with experience and ties to the organization. Don’t shoot the messenger.

Gallant also clashed with management in Vegas iirc, which is why he was let go. Not sure I can pin that one all on Drury.

re: Laviolette, dunno, I think a GM has to let a coach coach to some degree. If the GM is always dictating who plays how many minutes I think most coaches aren't gonna be happy about that

 

[McRanger92]

Gallant also clashed with management in Vegas iirc, which is why he was let go. Not sure I can pin that one all on Drury.

re: Laviolette, dunno, I think a GM has to let a coach coach to some degree. If the GM is always dictating who plays how many minutes I think most coaches aren't gonna be happy about that

Don’t disagree but he’s now hired 2 coaches he’s not on the same page with as far as the roster he’s given them. That’s an issue.

 

[Maliks PlusMinus]

Can anyone clear up why they think we got most points last season and a ECF to missing this year? Genuinely asking for opinions.

It’s all well and good questioning the coach, the leadership group, the players in general, but what was it that changed so much over the last year in people’s opinion?

I know we over performed (I never thought we were a top 5 team in terms of talent), but aside from the locker room implosion what happened to turn it so we were grossly underperforming as opposed to over performing?

My solution is Drury did what he did and the players reacted badly which I put on everyone including Lavi, but for those who think Drury played it right I just wonder why you think this turnaround happened.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Can anyone clear up why they think we got most points last season and a ECF to missing this year? Genuinely asking for opinions.

It’s all well and good questioning the coach, the leadership group, the players in general, but what was it that changed so much over the last year in people’s opinion?

I know we over performed (I never thought we were a top 5 team in terms of talent), but aside from the locker room implosion what happened to turn it so we were grossly underperforming as opposed to over performing?

My solution is Drury did what he did and the players reacted badly which I put on everyone including Lavi, but for those who think Drury played it right I just wonder why you think this turnaround happened.

Almost everyone on the team regressed and Drury didn’t do anything to solve the biggest issues on the team.

There are your answers. Why everyone regressed as heavily as they did is up for debate but it’s not bc GM MEAN!

 

[Raspewtin]

Almost everyone on the team regressed and Drury didn’t do anything to solve the biggest issues on the team.

There are your answers. Why everyone regressed as heavily as they did is up for debate but it’s not bc GM MEAN!

They also won a huge amount of 1 goal games - they had a +1 goal differential at ES. A very fair amount of luck was present there.

 

[Machinehead]

Can anyone clear up why they think we got most points last season and a ECF to missing this year? Genuinely asking for opinions.

It’s all well and good questioning the coach, the leadership group, the players in general, but what was it that changed so much over the last year in people’s opinion?

I know we over performed (I never thought we were a top 5 team in terms of talent), but aside from the locker room implosion what happened to turn it so we were grossly underperforming as opposed to over performing?

My solution is Drury did what he did and the players reacted badly which I put on everyone including Lavi, but for those who think Drury played it right I just wonder why you think this turnaround happened.

All of the analytics, even down to goal differential, say a bubble team is about what they should have been last year. They played the worst playoff team in 30 years in the first round and Kreider saved them from a reverse sweep in the second round.

A bubble team is exactly what they were in 2023. First round road team, first round exit. If not for an all-timer performance by Igor, they're out in the first round in 2022 also.

They're barely a playoff-quality team that regressed slightly with age.

 

[Graves97]

Can anyone clear up why they think we got most points last season and a ECF to missing this year? Genuinely asking for opinions.

It’s all well and good questioning the coach, the leadership group, the players in general, but what was it that changed so much over the last year in people’s opinion?

I know we over performed (I never thought we were a top 5 team in terms of talent), but aside from the locker room implosion what happened to turn it so we were grossly underperforming as opposed to over performing?

My solution is Drury did what he did and the players reacted badly which I put on everyone including Lavi, but for those who think Drury played it right I just wonder why you think this turnaround happened.

I voted both Drury and Lavi should be let go, With Lavi its obvious he's lost the team and is completely out of ideas at this point. With Drury my reasons for wanting him gone are largely due to the non Trouba/Goodrow moves (Buch, adding Soucy, resigning Lindgren, Igor deal, etc.). My question for everyone pinning this season solely on Drury's summer moves, he did exactly what 90%+ of the fan base was pining for, which was find a way to get out of the Trouba and Goodrow contracts. What could he have done differently?

Trouba was going to use every power available (including threatening to no show teams that weren't on his NTC) to block/delay a deal. While Goodrow really didn't have any value and teams weren't going to give up any real assets to take him on and were likely going to require some form of retention from the team.

I still feel at least 50-60% of the blame for this season falls on the players, namely the veterans. As many have said, they threw a hissy fit and refused to play hard for much of the year. This isnt the first time these same players have been accused of doing this under different coaches and Lavi will soon be the third coach they've pushed out in the last 6 years, so this really isn't a trend and is more a pattern that seems to develop when these players don't get their way. I also wonder if this is why some players seem to have cemented roles regardless of performance/outcomes.

 

[Levitate]

All of the analytics, even down to goal differential, say a bubble team is about what they should have been last year. They played the worst playoff team in 30 years in the first round and Kreider saved them from a reverse sweep in the second round.

A bubble team is exactly what they were in 2023. First round road team, first round exit. If not for an all-timer performance by Igor, they're out in the first round in 2022 also.

They're barely a playoff-quality team that regressed slightly with age.

eh

I don't disagree completely but there was something lacking in the effort and play this year that was there last year. They won a lot of 1 goal games and were "lucky" partly because they kept after it game after game and didn't wilt or give up when they lost a lead or shit like that. I don't know that it's quantifiable but it was a real thing. To some extent you "make your luck" by playing like that. "No Quit in NY" was a real thing for those years.

This year it was all quit all the time which was probably the most frustrating part IMO. It wasn't just a regression in an analytics sense, but in the resilience and effort of the team overall.