Rumor: Karlsson "out there" for trade, most likely an off-season move

[Peasy]

Dubas sure loves to add a guy and then realize it was a bad decision and quickly back track.

Hes done it so many f***in times.

Hell this would already be the 2nd player hes done this to in Pitts, first one being Smith where he trades for him and then trades him away the next year lol.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

If Karlsson was a UFA he'd probably get a 8x3 deal on the open market

If Pittsburgh trades him and retains 3 to 4 million so that's a 6 to 7 million dollar cap hit. People will be lining up. Especially after his bonus is paid.

Karlsson still will argue a top 32 D.

Letang - mid pairing good if he had a #4 or 3 beside him. He's finally slowed down this year

The other 4 D that play all bottom pairing quality possibly some should not even be on the ice.

Karlsson what's nice is he has 2 or 3 playoff runs for a team and they don't have to keep him. Max cap flexibility.

So yes any deal is going to be roughly 1st + value with a RD that is paid too much coming back.

That's what we would be looking for and I do not blame Dubas making the swing. Karlsson has been not a problem.

 

[Stephen]

Nice try, Kyle.

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

Nikishin is coming over and that is gonna be amazing but he's a LHD so he's not gonna be paired with Slavin. He is probably more of an Orlov replacement in that respect. Burns might hang it up so there would be space for both.

Slavin - Karlsson (zomg!)
Nikishin - Chatfield
Ghostbear - Walker

And then you have Morrow who might get a look as well. I could see a scenario where the Canes move off of Walker eventually. Maybe not this off-season but next

Chatfield is proof that an elite defensive system can make anyone look good.
Obviously I'm sure he improved but in my 35+ years of watching the nucks, I've never actively disliked a player due to his on ice performance but my God he had the worst stretch at defense I've ever seen. It literally pissed me off how bad he was and how many goals he was directly responsible for.
Good on him for putting in the work but it's still jolting seeing him in a top four role on such a good team.

Slavin would be an excellent partner for EK.

 

[Jay Gray]

Dubas sure loves to add a guy and then realize it was a bad decision and quickly back track.

Hes done it so many f***in times.

Hell this would already be the 2nd player hes done this to in Pitts, first one being Smith where he trades for him and then trades him away the next year lol.

That's better than keeping a player indefinitely to the detriment of the team just to keep up appearances.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Dubas sure loves to add a guy and then realize it was a bad decision and quickly back track.

Hes done it so many f***in times.

Hell this would already be the 2nd player hes done this to in Pitts, first one being Smith where he trades for him and then trades him away the next year lol.

Fixing your own mistakes makes you look bad even if it was the right call.

I wouldn't say Karlsson was a mistake though.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I am happy the pens over paid for him and not the oilers. 2 more years at 10mill is hard to move, even with the cap going up.

and just a public service announcement. Pens only have one have one retention spot left and due to the fact SJ is already retaining, unless the rules have changed, a contract can only have a max of 2 teams retaining on a contract--so you can not say pens keeps 30% with another team retaining 20% there.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Chatfield is proof that an elite defensive system can make anyone look good.
Obviously I'm sure he improved but in my 35+ years of watching the nucks, I've never actively disliked a player due to his on ice performance but my God he had the worst stretch at defense I've ever seen. It literally pissed me off how bad he was and how many goals he was directly responsible for.
Good on him for putting in the work but it's still jolting seeing him in a top four role on such a good team.

Slavin would be an excellent partner for EK.

Haha ya… when Chatfield came in his only skillset was that he could skate well and he gave effort but he was extremely raw and really needed a lot of time and mentoring in order to bring him to the point where he is now. He could legit be a top 4 dman on any team now and can play up and down the Canes lineup as needed.

But the Canes did that with Skjei and TDA as well. Having RBA as your coach and Slavin from the top down certainly helps a ton

 

[BobCole]

Dubas sure loves to add a guy and then realize it was a bad decision and quickly back track.

Hes done it so many f***in times.

Hell this would already be the 2nd player hes done this to in Pitts, first one being Smith where he trades for him and then trades him away the next year lol.

Yeah, it's not dissimilar to the "hire fast, fire fast" strategy, lol.

I actually think he did a good job extricating himself from Smith. The Karlsson situation is a bit different. In the time since Dubas arrived, the Pens have gone from wannabe contenders to a team clearly in sell mode. So it makes sense to look to move EK.

I'm not as sour as some are on Dubas (interestingly, it seems Leafs fan are the most vocal in chiding Dubas' tenure in Pitt, whereas Pens fans are more ambivalent).

Like I said, I have no issue with the Smith/Karlsson situations, but if I were to criticize him for signings, it would be for both Jarry and Graves. They've both been unmitigated disasters, and the Pens are stuck with both of 'em on high-dollar & long-term deals.

 

[DrDangles]

It's insane to me how this team will do anything other than bring in a new coach. Sully is just gonna leave once the core is gone and all this time will have been wasted in limbo for nothing.

 

[kerrabria]

I think that Florida should seriously try to make it work.

They have defensive structure (and workhorses) to insulate Karlsson, but EK would be improvement over what they have (Ekblad) in power play and transition.

Don’t know if they can make cap work with Knight still in the books.

I think Karlsson is a much easier sell in the off-season once the cap is like $10 million higher and teams like Florida and Carolina don't have Ekblad and Burns on their books anymore. The Penguins would still have to retain, but Karlsson at $7 million should be workable for either team with their contracts expiring. The Penguins could take more money back to improve the return, but I think they could at least get something for Karlsson at $7 million once the cap rises.

It's one thing to take back a single bad contract like Dumba from Dallas to make the deal work at the deadline, but if the Penguins have to be saddled with numerous terrible deals to make a deal, they're better off just waiting until the off-season when the cap shoots up and more teams have money.

Florida wouldn't answer the phone for a Karlsson trade.
Zito is a very good GM. Good GMs know that you don't win with rover, pseudo-defensemen who are complete liabilities on defense and aren't even goal scoring threats from the point.
Montour is a better shooter, a better defender, more physical, and fit with Paul Maurice. If they didn't try to keep Montour at $7m, then they wouldn't take Karlsson for free at that number.

 

[Jay Gray]

It's insane to me how this team will do anything other than bring in a new coach. Sully is just gonna leave once the core is gone and all this time will have been wasted in limbo for nothing.

Crosby wants Sullivan to stay. And half of this fan base cares more about Crosby than the organization itself so it shouldn't be a surprise Sullivan is still here. He should have been fired last year when he had the leagues worse power play that caused them to miss the playoffs.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

To be fair, he doesn't sound all that excited.

this isn't going as well as you think it is.

Ghost: Everyone there loves cheese so much, its the best thing ever

Warrior: I guess cheese is a necessary topping for pizza, so I guess its kinda okay

Ghost: See I told you!

Literally the first two responses lmao:

Confirmed with Link: Thread 'Kyle Dubas named President of Hockey Operations'

Jun 1, 2023

"Dubas, 37, will oversee all aspects of the Penguins hockey operations department including establishing the strategic vision and philosophy for the franchise."

Penguins Name Kyle Dubas President of Hockey Operations | Pittsburgh Penguins

The Pittsburgh Penguins announced today that Kyle Dubas has been named President of Hockey Operations. Dubas becomes just the second person to hold this position in the history of the franchise.

www.nhl.com

• Lust for Life
• Replies: 1,345
• Forum: Pittsburgh Penguins

• 
• 

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

If Erik Karlsson were a free agent this summer, how many teams would offer him a buyout proof 2 years 10M contract with a NMC?

Out of the teams that would do that, how many would Erik Karlsson willingly leave Pittsburgh to go to.

Out of the teams that now remain, what kind of value would they place on that transaction above what Karlsson brings them for 20M over 2 years? A 1st? 2nd? 3rd? Etc.

If you do that thought exercise, it becomes obvious that its going to be difficult to move him for any value. The value is the money getting off the books.

Karlsson is also owed a 5M signing bonus, presumably on July 1st. I doubt the Penguins want to pay that, and if they do pay that they likely want some sort of compensation, like not having to retain on Karlsson's contract.

If heavy retention and Pittsburgh taking bad contracts comes into play, that changes things.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Dubas sure loves to add a guy and then realize it was a bad decision and quickly back track.

Hes done it so many f***in times.

Hell this would already be the 2nd player hes done this to in Pitts, first one being Smith where he trades for him and then trades him away the next year lol.

Doesn’t count as adding a guy but the Jarry signing too.

For the Leafs, the Mrazek and Murray signings were instafails and everyone realized it except him.

 

[norrisnick]

Red wings have enough shorter term bad contracts to make it work. Would hate seeing him in Detroit though

Same.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

July 1st trade, Josh Norris for Erik Karlsson (No retention, but Pittsburgh pays the signing bonus).

Karlsson is only owed 11.5M over 2 years after his bonus is paid. Norris makes 9.5M next year and the year after, then he still has 3 years of term.

This assumes no trade market for either player. As in, Dubas isn't taking Norris instead of a 1st, there isn't a 1st on the table from anybody.

Both teams would be better off. Senators as a small market team during an era with a weak Canadian dollar, they move the liability of a player who has a long injury history. Pittsburgh gambles on the younger player who fits better with their timeline, but also might be worth a 1st++ a few years down the line if they prove they can stay healthy as the cap deflates their contract and the remaining term lessens.

If Ottawa trades Tkachuk, it would also be a positive marketing move to bring back Karlsson.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Dubas sure loves to add a guy and then realize it was a bad decision and quickly back track.

Hes done it so many f***in times.

Hell this would already be the 2nd player hes done this to in Pitts, first one being Smith where he trades for him and then trades him away the next year lol.

I mean, would you rather he sit on mistakes rather than trying to fix them?

Bizarre thing to criticize him for.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Literally the first two responses lmao:

Confirmed with Link: Thread 'Kyle Dubas named President of Hockey Operations'

Jun 1, 2023

"Dubas, 37, will oversee all aspects of the Penguins hockey operations department including establishing the strategic vision and philosophy for the franchise."

Penguins Name Kyle Dubas President of Hockey Operations | Pittsburgh Penguins

The Pittsburgh Penguins announced today that Kyle Dubas has been named President of Hockey Operations. Dubas becomes just the second person to hold this position in the history of the franchise.

www.nhl.com

• Lust for Life
• Replies: 1,345
• Forum: Pittsburgh Penguins

• 
• 

Dude you specifically posted Warrior's response from that thread, on its' own, which again seemed generally accepting but by no means "excited" about the hire - hence my earlier comment.

 

[chethejet]

Dubas made a deal and brought in Karlsson for Granlund and Petry. That was a 2 year deal in a sense. Karlsson will be moved for some nice assets with retention. Now with a rebuild in place, the focus is building the system vs some dubious playoff goal. Dubas has some nice pieces here to move. Rust possible Rakell and already moved Petts. the question is the best return. TDL or off season.
I like Karlsson to Ottawa but open to moving him to the Canes as well at the TDL. If Caroilina Morrow is a player back with a good young forward.

 

[Empoleon8771]

July 1st trade, Josh Norris for Erik Karlsson (No retention, but Pittsburgh pays the signing bonus).

Karlsson is only owed 11.5M over 2 years after his bonus is paid. Norris makes 9.5M next year and the year after, then he still has 3 years of term.

This assumes no trade market for either player. As in, Dubas isn't taking Norris instead of a 1st, there isn't a 1st on the table from anybody.

Both teams would be better off. Senators as a small market team during an era with a weak Canadian dollar, they move the liability of a player who has a long injury history. Pittsburgh gambles on the younger player who fits better with their timeline, but also might be worth a 1st++ a few years down the line if they prove they can stay healthy as the cap deflates their contract and the remaining term lessens.

If Ottawa trades Tkachuk, it would also be a positive marketing move to bring back Karlsson.

Not nearly enough coming from Ottawa if the Penguins are also eating Karlsson’s July signing bonus.

After this year, Karlsson is owed $16.75 million in real money and San Jose is eating about $2.25 million of that. This deal would have the Penguins eating Karlsson’s $5 million bonus and Karlsson only costing Ottawa $9 million over 2 years. Meanwhile the Penguins are taking on that $5 million bonus plus the $33 million Norris is owed. That is wildly too high of a money disparity for me to think that’s a fair swap.

The Penguins paying Norris $38 million for 4 years and the Senators paying Karlsson $9 million for 2 years is not a fair deal, especially considering Karlsson is the better player. I don’t hate the concept because Norris is intriguing for a team that has nothing in terms of good young centers, but Ottawa is for sure adding in that case.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Literally why would the Penguins do that

To get out of the Karlsson contract?

 

[Empoleon8771]

To get out of the Karlsson contract?

Again, literally why would the Penguins do that?

They suck. The only point of trading Karlsson is to get value for him. If they can’t get value for him, they’ll just sit on his deal until his contract expires in 2 years.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Again, literally why would the Penguins do that?

They suck. The only point of trading Karlsson is to get value for him. If they can’t get value for him, they’ll just sit on his deal until his contract expires in 2 years.

Sure, I get what you mean. What kind of value are you looking to get then and are you willing to eat a bad contract as well?

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Again, literally why would the Penguins do that?

They suck. The only point of trading Karlsson is to get value for him. If they can’t get value for him, they’ll just sit on his deal until his contract expires in 2 years.

For me, it depends on what pick he is attaching to Gallagher. For example, would you take: Karlsson (2mil retained) for Gallagher +2nd (2026)?

That's better than sitting on him for two years. That being said, with the Pens picking up his 5mil bonus and retention, I think they can get a better return. 4 Nations showed he can still be a really good player on a good team.