News Article: Karlsson and Dorion/Melnyk didn't talk after November

[swiftwin]

Here look at this quote I found from Drew Doughty on EK:

"He's a phenomenal player. Some of the things that he does on the ice leaves me speechless. I look at him and I try to do what he does, but I just can't do it. He's an incredible player and from what I've noticed from speaking to him he seems like a great guy as well."

This has nothing to do with whether or not EK was a POS or the most amazing person to ever enter a locker room. This has to do with the Ottawa narrative that must be created to make every player who they force out the door the bad guy just because they are too cheap to pony up the cash.

Has anyone claimed Karlsson isn't a great guy?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

A quote from that trouble making Turris

“He’s going to do great,” Turris says. “He’s a good friend of mine, but even without that bias, I honestly think after being on the ice with him every day and seeing how skilled he is, he’s on another level. If he’s not the best player in the world, he’s definitely one of them.
“Anywhere he goes, he’s going to have a ton of success. And I hope he does because he’s a great guy.”

Kyle Turris reflects on trade, 'difficult transition' to Nashville - Sportsnet.ca

 

[DaveMatthew]

I am not ANTI Karlsson.. He seems like a nice guy and a great hockey player.. I am just wondering how good of a leader/team mate he is.... he is probably liked in the room, but I get the feeling people would not fall on their swords for him (Alfredsson they would have).

When Alfredsson was Karlsson's age, he had just led the team to 3 straight playoff losses at the hands of the Leafs and was universally criticized as a choker and bad captain. Trade rumors were rampant.

He didn't become "God" until the 06/07 when he scored 22 points during our Finals run.

But do you remember the season before that? You know when he let Jason Pominville walk past him and we lost to the Sabres in 5? And then there were all the rumors about him being dealt for Craig Conroy?

It took a long time for Alfredsson to become Alfredsson. Luckily we didn't trade him before he did. Too bad we did it with Karlsson. We'll never know what could have been.

Hell, Yzerman didn't become a "good captain" until he was 30. He was almost traded for Alexei Yashin...

Yet here you are writing off Karlsson at 28.

 

[Flamingo]

In the SportsNet interview that will air on Thursday, Erik says he was told in February that he wasn't going to be retained for the next season. He said "we were told," I don't know if that plural is to include his agent and wife; or if he's including other players.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

The idea that this team or organization is better off with Karlsson, or that he was a bad captain, is laughable. How quickly people forget that he played through significant injuries to lead this team to the ECF a little over a year ago. Meanwhile, "meant-to-be-captain" Mark Stone had 8 points in 19 playoff games that same year...

The terrible season last year had a lot more to do with Karlsson coming back from major surgery, our coach refusing to adapt his system, Oduya replacing Methot, Anderson/Condon imitating swiss cheese, and our "put-us-over-the-top" new number one center Matt Duchene scoring 2 goals in his first 23 games here than it did with leadership or locker room morale.

Dorion putting the blame on that is nothing more than him trying to distract from the fact the he completely mis-evaluated the roster and made personnel terrible decisions, and some fans/media (cough Steve Warne) eat that up.

We can talk all we want about hard work and leadership as we want, but guess who else works hard and has leaders? Tampa, Toronto, Boston, Nashville, San Jose, etc. The ****ty new for this team? They also have talent.

PS. I'm a big fan of both Duchene and Stone even though I used their struggles to illustrate my point.

Anybody trying to make this about Karlsson in any way is deluding themselves.

Regardless of where you stand on the financial issues this team is having that are standing in the way of icing a decent product and why we're having those issues, it just needs to be accepted that Karlsson left because of money one way or the other. Contract expectations and public statements on either side may have hurt some ego's and prevented them from ever discussing numbers, but it still traces back the same way.

 

[The Lewler]

In the SportsNet interview that will air on Thursday, Erik says he was told in February that he wasn't going to be retained for the next season. He said "we were told," I don't know if that plural is to include his agent and wife; or if he's including other players.

uh wut

 

[Spartachat]

In the SportsNet interview that will air on Thursday, Erik says he was told in February that he wasn't going to be retained for the next season. He said "we were told," I don't know if that plural is to include his agent and wife; or if he's including other players.

Probably Bobby Ryan.

 

[swiftwin]

When Alfredsson was Karlsson's age, he had just led the team to 3 straight playoff losses at the hands of the Leafs and was universally criticized as a choker and bad captain. Trade rumors were rampant.

He didn't become "God" until the 06/07 when he scored 22 points during our Finals run.

But do you remember the season before that? You know when he let Jason Pominville walk past him and we lost to the Sabres in 5? And then there were all the rumors about him being dealt for Craig Conroy?

It took a long time for Alfredsson to become Alfredsson. Luckily we didn't trade him before he did. Too bad we did it with Karlsson. We'll never know what could have been.

Hell, Yzerman didn't become a "good captain" until he was 30. He was almost traded for Alexei Yashin...

Yet here you are writing off Karlsson at 28.

None of this matters because Karlsson is no longer with us. Just accept it an move on.

 

[Micklebot]

Of course it's a well studied phenomenon, but it's more reasonably applied to fans who adore EK, but are unable to process or consider new information that may paint him in a light that is less favourable. Personally I don't have conflicting views on the player as I understand that people can be excellent players but also have issues, either temporary or persistent. Folks willing to discuss these things aren't really exhibiting signs of cognitive dissonance in my opinion.

This last bit is just lazy. I'm able and willing to process new information in regards to my opinion, and to admit when I'm wrong when called for. I can also alter my opinions as well as hold firm on them when I think it's called for, like many folks on here. There are some however that refuse to even discuss new information, not the same, as you know.

So when you decide it's justified not to change your opinion, it's all good, but when somebody else doesn't change their opinion, it you who decides it's unjustified? My point was that you claiming others were set in their opinions unreasonable probably applies to you in their opinion. You don't get to be judge jury and executioner

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

.... he is probably liked in the room, but I get the feeling people would not fall on their swords for him (Alfredsson they would have)….
)

With the excellent play from Karlsson, Sens goalie Craig Anderson is starting to see some similarities to a former Senators great in the 26-year-old defenceman.
"He’s starting to remind me a lot like Alfie (Daniel Alfredsson), where guys are starting to kill themselves for him,” Anderson told ESPN's Joe McDonald.

tsn

 

[MiscBrah]

With the excellent play from Karlsson, Sens goalie Craig Anderson is starting to see some similarities to a former Senators great in the 26-year-old defenceman.
"He’s starting to remind me a lot like Alfie (Daniel Alfredsson), where guys are starting to kill themselves for him,” Anderson told ESPN's Joe McDonald.

tsn

Must be a different Karlsson, our former captain was hated by his teammates.

 

[swiftwin]

Must be a different Karlsson, our former captain was hated by his teammates.

Who said that?

Why do you keep these "drive-by" statements with no factual basis? You're only trolling and instigating right now.

 

[MiscBrah]

Who said that?

Why do you keep these "drive-by" statements with no factual basis? You're only trolling and instigating right now.

The people posting the quotes from Stone, Duchene, and Anderson comparing their responses to Smith and EK. Have you not read the past few pages?

I'm not trolling or instigating, I'm mocking the people who are posting those ridiculous things.

 

[Ice-Tray]

So when you decide it's justified not to change your opinion, it's all good, but when somebody else doesn't change their opinion, it you who decides it's unjustified? My point was that you claiming others were set in their opinions unreasonable probably applies to you in their opinion. You don't get to be judge jury and executioner

This again? Give it a rest dude, this isn't a crusade and I'm not against people having their opinions. You're not following along with the discussion, instead you've picked an irrelevancy and are building a mole hill out of it, as you're wont to do.

People were trying to kill the discussion with arguments to the extreme, not bothering to listen/consider new information concerning EK last year. Instead we got slammed for a 'smear campaign' followed by a lot of noise, when no one was smearing anything, simply wanting to explore how much of an issue EK was to the team last year. People get to decide when and if they want to change their opinions, it's whether or not they are willing to consider/discuss new information that makes the difference. For some folks EK is clearly off limits for discussion.

For the record, when you're not doing that thing again where you argue for the sake of arguing, you're entrenched in your opinions like everyone else. You'll have to decide for yourself whether you're open to new things or whether you stick your fingers in your ears and scream 'LA-LA-LA-LA' at the top of your lungs when someone wants to talk about EK.

 

[swiftwin]

The people posting the quotes from Stone, Duchene, and Anderson comparing their responses to Smith and EK. Have you not read the past few pages?

I'm not trolling or instigating, I'm mocking the people who are posting those ridiculous things.

Posting a quote from Anderson and Smith is a ridiculous thing?

Nobody here has said that Karlsson was hated by his teammates. Nobody.

 

[Micklebot]

This again? Give it a rest dude, this isn't a crusade and I'm not against people having their opinions. You're not following along with the discussion, instead you've picked an irrelevancy and are building a mole hill out of it, as you're wont to do.

People were trying to kill the discussion with arguments to the extreme, not bothering to listen/consider new information concerning EK last year. Instead we got slammed for a 'smear campaign' followed by a lot of noise, when no one was smearing anything, simply wanting to explore how much of an issue EK was to the team last year. People get to decide when and if they want to change their opinions, it's whether or not they are willing to consider/discuss new information that makes the difference. For some folks EK is clearly off limits for discussion.

For the record, when you're not doing that thing again where you argue for the sake of arguing, you're entrenched in your opinions like everyone else. You'll have to decide for yourself whether you're open to new things or whether you stick your fingers in your ears and scream 'LA-LA-LA-LA' at the top of your lungs when someone wants to talk about EK.

When the new information contradicts prior information, Should people assume the old info must have been incorrect? People predicted a smear campaign long before Karlsson was traded pretty much from the moment trade rumours started, so this isn't a case of people unwilling to change their opinion when presented new facts, it's people seeing a pattern from past similar situations, and questioning why we are seeing history repeat. It's also not a case of people labeling new info that goes against their opinions as a smear campaign, it's them pointing out the anticipated change in narrative.

It's healthy to question the authenticity when we've seen it all happen before, the reality is the narrative did a 180 in a very short period. I think it would be obvious that given the season, and the personal hardship Karsson endured in his private life, stress levels would be higher, and tensions for the whole team would be high, but spinning that into he is a poor leader and bad in the locker room glosses over the context. You don't fire a coach if he gets a cancer diagnosis (unless you're the flyers) you rally behind him and help him through a tough time. So it's a bit odd to hear player comment editorialized to form this new narrative.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

The 8 X 11 was reported by both Garrioch and Brennan locally and by Doug MacLean on Hockey Central at noon.

Again, it was "reportedly" 8 X 11 by all three ........ pretty sure I made that clear each and every time.

Do you require even further explanation?

Yes... on your continuous arguments.

Did you know that Santa exists? Santa was reportedly seen many times by countless people.

 

[TheNewEra]

LOOOOL

lets gooooo

#melnykout

 

[branch]

None of this matters because Karlsson is no longer with us. Just accept it an move on.

Will you accept it when Karlsson is the flagstone of a cup win and he pockets 2-3 more Norris trophies in his career? Accepting something like that makes you pushover.

 

[branch]

LOOOOL

lets gooooo

#melnykout

The real fans surely are filling the building and the boycott is definitely isolated to the 300 posters here.

So obvious what is going on here...

 

[JD1]

When the new information contradicts prior information, Should people assume the old info must have been incorrect? People predicted a smear campaign long before Karlsson was traded pretty much from the moment trade rumours started, so this isn't a case of people unwilling to change their opinion when presented new facts, it's people seeing a pattern from past similar situations, and questioning why we are seeing history repeat. It's also not a case of people labeling new info that goes against their opinions as a smear campaign, it's them pointing out the anticipated change in narrative.

It's healthy to question the authenticity when we've seen it all happen before, the reality is the narrative did a 180 in a very short period. I think it would be obvious that given the season, and the personal hardship Karsson endured in his private life, stress levels would be higher, and tensions for the whole team would be high, but spinning that into he is a poor leader and bad in the locker room glosses over the context. You don't fire a coach if he gets a cancer diagnosis (unless you're the flyers) you rally behind him and help him through a tough time. So it's a bit odd to hear player comment editorialized to form this new narrative.

is it odd? the new narrative? seems logical to me that it would only be articulated post trade. it may be the first we're hearing about it (actually there have been rumblings for a while) but it doesn't mean it hasn't been lingering for some time.

disclaimer: I have no reason to believe it's been lingering for years....but your notion of the timing being odd is faulty imo

 

[Ice-Tray]

When the new information contradicts prior information, Should people assume the old info must have been incorrect? People predicted a smear campaign long before Karlsson was traded pretty much from the moment trade rumours started, so this isn't a case of people unwilling to change their opinion when presented new facts, it's people seeing a pattern from past similar situations, and questioning why we are seeing history repeat. It's also not a case of people labeling new info that goes against their opinions as a smear campaign, it's them pointing out the anticipated change in narrative.

It's healthy to question the authenticity when we've seen it all happen before, the reality is the narrative did a 180 in a very short period. I think it would be obvious that given the season, and the personal hardship Karsson endured in his private life, stress levels would be higher, and tensions for the whole team would be high, but spinning that into he is a poor leader and bad in the locker room glosses over the context. You don't fire a coach if he gets a cancer diagnosis (unless you're the flyers) you rally behind him and help him through a tough time. So it's a bit odd to hear player comment editorialized to form this new narrative.

I’m not expecting people to change their opinions, you’re still missing the point. There is enough smoke to have a discussion about it without having to be rudely shut down after each post, argued to the extreme, or accused of smear tactics. People don’t have to change their opinions, but let the bloody discussion happen.

I hope that clears things up for you.

 

[Micklebot]

is it odd? the new narrative? seems logical to me that it would only be articulated post trade. it may be the first we're hearing about it (actually there have been rumblings for a while) but it doesn't mean it hasn't been lingering for some time.

disclaimer: I have no reason to believe it's been lingering for years....but your notion of the timing being odd is faulty imo

The odd bit is the stark reversal in a short period of time. 12 months ago people in the room couldn't say enough good things about him in the room. After he's traded, we get conjecture about how he's bad in the room from people outside the room. It's possible the guys inside the room were lying, it's also possible that things changed. I could buy into the latter more so than the former given the personal struggles he had off the ice, but we're then looking at about 6 months with significant contributing circumstances outweighing 6 years of lauded leadership. Add that to the fact that this seems to always be the way it goes down with this team; trade rumours start and the character assassination begins, and you get people starting to doubt the veracity.

Of course people won't throw a current player under the bus, but they typically aren't heaping praise on him they reverse course the second he's out the door. And that's not even truly what's happening, because it's the interpretations not the actions that are extreme. People react emotionally to a sudden and unexpected waiving of Smith, but react more calmly to a drawn out ordeal with Karlsson, and we get some people speculating that the players didn't care as much about Karlsson. Think about that for a second and tell me there isn't a flaw in that logic.

 

[JD1]

The odd bit is the stark reversal in a short period of time. 12 months ago people in the room couldn't say enough good things about him in the room. After he's traded, we get conjecture about how he's bad in the room from people outside the room. It's possible the guys inside the room were lying, it's also possible that things changed. I could buy into the latter more so than the former given the personal struggles he had off the ice, but we're then looking at about 6 months with significant contributing circumstances outweighing 6 years of lauded leadership. Add that to the fact that this seems to always be the way it goes down with this team; trade rumours start and the character assassination begins, and you get people starting to doubt the veracity.

Of course people won't throw a current player under the bus, but they typically aren't heaping praise on him they reverse course the second he's out the door. And that's not even truly what's happening, because it's the interpretations not the actions that are extreme. People react emotionally to a sudden and unexpected waiving of Smith, but react more calmly to a drawn out ordeal with Karlsson, and we get some people speculating that the players didn't care as much about Karlsson. Think about that for a second and tell me there isn't a flaw in that logic.

I think there are a few flaws in your logic...but that's just me.

I think there was likely a degree of sports cliche exaggeration and I think things definitely changed.

analyzing information and drawing non biased conclusions from it is a difficult thing to do, moreso when one is emotionally attached to the situation. I think our fan base has reacted with a lot of emotion to the EK situation over the past 9 months.

your comment about interpretation versus action is interesting. looking at all the sound bites I personally think the interpretation is quite clear...but there is clearly a loud, emotional reaction to the suggestion some are not sad to see the hero leave

 

[Silencio]

When Alfredsson was Karlsson's age, he had just led the team to 3 straight playoff losses at the hands of the Leafs and was universally criticized as a choker and bad captain. Trade rumors were rampant.

He didn't become "God" until the 06/07 when he scored 22 points during our Finals run.

But do you remember the season before that? You know when he let Jason Pominville walk past him and we lost to the Sabres in 5? And then there were all the rumors about him being dealt for Craig Conroy?

It took a long time for Alfredsson to become Alfredsson. Luckily we didn't trade him before he did. Too bad we did it with Karlsson. We'll never know what could have been.

Hell, Yzerman didn't become a "good captain" until he was 30. He was almost traded for Alexei Yashin...

Yet here you are writing off Karlsson at 28.

And Ovechkin before he led his team to a Cup win at age 33. Karlsson deserved the same opportunity and benefit of the doubt.