Kapanen is putting up a 41% 5v5 expected goals in St. Louis. He still stinks, he's just shooting at an insane rate right now.
It won't last. He's not going to score on 20% of his shots next season like he is doing right now.
Confirmed with Link: Kapanen re-signs for 2 years at $3.2 million AAV
- Thread starter Empoleon8771
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It won't last. He's not going to score on 20% of his shots next season like he is doing right now.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Yeah look at the Pens. They dominate expected goals and our offensive contributions are amazing.
Has nothing to do with the Pens. He's a career 11% shooter. He's not going to keep shooting 20%. He didn't shoot like that in Toronto where he had coaches who actually used him properly.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Who cares? He's scoring goals just like Zucker did during an unattainable stretch and everyone said we needed to resign him.
I do when people are claiming @Empoleon8771 's Kapanen take is bad and using Kapanen shooting 20% over a short stretch to prove that.
Gurglesons
Registered User
I mean it's @Empoleon8771 it is immediately a bad take the moment he makes it.
Kapanen paced for 35-40 pts in his time here. Moving him for nothing made no sense.
Buddy Bizarre
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That's my main complaint in all of this: Kap's "replacement" (Granlund) isn't appreciably better or suited for bottom 6 duty. And he's more expensive, plus we paid an asset for him. Unless Granlund really starts to light it up being next to Malkin in the top 6, we should have just stood pat and lived with the Kap frustration until the offseason
It's poor roster construction and player utilization, period. That's on both Hex and Sully.
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
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I don't know that it's a "bad take." I get being super frustrated by watching Kapanen play, too. He has an interesting blend of skills but is a total spazz a lot of the time so he leaves you wanting. He just never quite put it all together like everyone hoped he would. Plus I get people being extra bitter about the whole thing considering the dumb amount of resources that went into the guy only to eventually waive him.
I guess I just don't think he's actually some horrible player. Even if he's frustrating and clearly had no future in Pittsburgh his overall body of work seems to say that he's solidly an NHL third liner. If nothing else St. Louis should have little problem flipping him now for something and that's more than this team could accomplish.
I guess I just don't think he's actually some horrible player. Even if he's frustrating and clearly had no future in Pittsburgh his overall body of work seems to say that he's solidly an NHL third liner. If nothing else St. Louis should have little problem flipping him now for something and that's more than this team could accomplish.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I fundamentally don’t know how you could have watched Kapanen this year along with what this place has said about him and say that he doesn’t suck.
He produced okay, but that’s literally all he did here. He’s a solid piece on a scoring 3rd line because he does produce well, like you said, but the dude is a nightmare outside of his production at this point. Idk what happened to him, but he offers pretty much no value in his all-around game anymore.
He always had issues being able to play with star talent due to his tunnel vision issues, so that pushes him down to a L3 role on any team who actually aspires to be a cup contender. How much interest is there for a scoring 3rd liner who doesn’t offer any sort of notable physicality, forechecking or defensive ability? I just don’t see it.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Kapanen was by far the worst analytical player on the Penguins this year, even worse than Carter. He had an xGF% at 5v5 this year of 43.74%, which is miles worse than Carter’s 48.18%. He was miles away their worst bottom-6 player analytically, which aligns with what you saw from him when he wasn’t putting up points. He did nothing out there outside of his production.
It’s the same exact way in St. Louis right now, he’s just shooting at an insane rate. He has an xGF% of 37.93%, he’s getting slaughtered analytically when he’s on the ice.
And by the way, I don’t think anyone was thinking of Kapanen when people say what they want in a 3rd liner. What I want in a 3rd liner is someone who can produce decently well in a defensive role while not getting absolutely crushed analytically and on the scoreboard in that role. Kapanen had the production but literally nothing else. He had a 16-24 goal differential at 5v5 and analytics to suggest those results were reflective of his play.
It’s the same exact way in St. Louis right now, he’s just shooting at an insane rate. He has an xGF% of 37.93%, he’s getting slaughtered analytically when he’s on the ice.
And by the way, I don’t think anyone was thinking of Kapanen when people say what they want in a 3rd liner. What I want in a 3rd liner is someone who can produce decently well in a defensive role while not getting absolutely crushed analytically and on the scoreboard in that role. Kapanen had the production but literally nothing else. He had a 16-24 goal differential at 5v5 and analytics to suggest those results were reflective of his play.
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Kapanen does have the talent to produce some points. That's about the only thing he does well. He doesn't control play, doesn't play defense, doesn't check, is butter soft.
The problem is he doesn't produce points so well that you want him in your top six. His best fit would be on an offensively oriented third line.
Sullivan doesn't use his third line that way and probably never will. If the Pens wanted to re-sign Kapanen they should have built their third line to score, not to check. But then you have a three scoring line situation because Crosby's line can't check. Malkin's line can't check. Not sure how well that would work out.
The Pens should really be aiming to fill the bottom six with DOCs. Big fast guys who can control play and not eat shit when buried in d-zone deployments. That's what Sullivan wants, so might as well give it to him if you're doubling down on having him as a coach.
The problem is he doesn't produce points so well that you want him in your top six. His best fit would be on an offensively oriented third line.
Sullivan doesn't use his third line that way and probably never will. If the Pens wanted to re-sign Kapanen they should have built their third line to score, not to check. But then you have a three scoring line situation because Crosby's line can't check. Malkin's line can't check. Not sure how well that would work out.
The Pens should really be aiming to fill the bottom six with DOCs. Big fast guys who can control play and not eat shit when buried in d-zone deployments. That's what Sullivan wants, so might as well give it to him if you're doubling down on having him as a coach.
Kapanen isn't smart enough of a player to be effective in a cycle game. His only impact is off the rush, and he'll get more of those chances in STL where they don't really concern themselves over defense.
Buddy Bizarre
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That's what is double frustrating about this entire scenario of waiving Kap. We probably could have gotten 1 or 2 DOC types instead of tossing the asset (Kap plus 2nd rounder) for nothing.
It's a major facepalm for Hex and Sully. Moreso on Hex
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
what this place says about him should be roundly ignored because we're all doofuses, Emp.
Dude had potential, has physical tools and a weak mental game, and he hasn't looked nearly as bad in St. Louis as he did here. It's not really a Ms. Marple mystery.
Harvey Birdman
…Need some law books, with pictures this time…
The only part to be mad about with Kap is that we got nothing. That is frustrating. I will agree with you. But he did himself no favors in tanking his value. Id be willing to bet the only trades offered for him were cap in cap out type of trades. And due to another frustrating mismanagement the reason he needed to be moved was to clear cap. So that type of trade would not have works.
But Kap did himself no favors while he was here. He was blindingly frustrating to watch play. Some nights I watched him I wondered if he wanted to play hockey period for any team let alone for Pittsburgh. I heard a quote about him on Madden that I honestly couldn't disagree with. "He wants the lifestyle of a hockey player without wanting to play hockey." He simply wasn't working here. Whether that be down to team chemistry, coaching, or lack of effort. I think its all 3 to varying degree.
He isn't some white knight figure that was beaten into the mud here though. He did himself absolutely no favors with his visible lack of effort and disinterest on certain nights. Watching the game with my son on one play just watched him let go of the puck rather than go into contact and skate to the bench. And my 8 year old looked at me and asked me why he did that. When a child can see your disinterest and/or lack of effort. You need to go.
Best wishes to him in St. Louis or where ever he ends up. Players all the time play very well on one team, go to another and play very poorly. Others play poorly on a team, then change teams and play very well. And everything in between. This isn't NHL on Xbox or Playstation and you just go by player ratings. Some times players just to do not play well with others regardless of the skill.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Kapanen was what he was here. The fact is that Rust has been just as bad but he has EXPECTED numbers. ZAR was just as bad, etc.
The stupid part of our team is # 1. Acquiring the same player over and over again and # 2. Being shocked when it doesn't work out.
Harvey Birdman
…Need some law books, with pictures this time…
Oh you'll get no disagreements from me with anything you just said. We should have never reaquired him. And certainly should not have extended him.
As far as Rust goes. I said this in another thread. Zucker's injury history worries me, as does that this awesome season is coming on a contract year. But I would trade Rust this off season, try and get some youth depth for him, and take Rusts money and resign Zucker. Its a gamble given the injuries since he has been here. But at this point with only a couple of years left of 87/71/58 you have to roll the dice and shoot for the moon.
Gurglesons
Registered User
I'd rather keep Rust. He's a more versatile player than Zucker and has a way better history of production.
Coastal Kev
There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
Your basing everything off of shooting % in 5 games? Meaningless stats.
When you‘re seeing the game, and you are positioning yourself well, yes your % will be high during that streak. It would be sanme for any scorer.
Point remains Kap was a sulky disaster and will be proven as such over time. Bet on it
