Prospect Info: K'Andre Miller (D) - Part IV

[Amazing Kreiderman]

He's usually really solid out there. Unfortunately he has a proclivity to make glaring, careless mistakes once or twice a night. Fortunately he's 22 (almost) and only has 90 games under his belt, so there's a real reason to believe he'll cut down on those errors.

I wouldn't go out of my way to move him in any way, shape, or form, but if there was a deal out there for a really talented young C to be made, then there aren't many untouchables on this roster.

Yep. My sentiments exactly about anyone not named Fox, Shestyorkin or Panarin.

 

[bhamill]

Nah

What do you expect from someone with that name who joined Friday? Ahahahaha.

 

[will1066]

He's usually really solid out there. Unfortunately he has a proclivity to make glaring, careless mistakes once or twice a night. Fortunately he's 22 (almost) and only has 90 games under his belt, so there's a real reason to believe he'll cut down on those errors.

I wouldn't go out of my way to move him in any way, shape, or form, but if there was a deal out there for a really talented young C to be made, then there aren't many untouchables on this roster.

I think he'll cut down those errors with experience. The giveaways and the bad pinches and the getting caught in transition, I think they result from second-guessing -- changing his mind on a decision at the last split-second -- maybe trying to hurry up a play, as well as from taking calculated risks (which is encouraged actually because they want him to "just go out there and play his game" but sometimes he miscalculates).

With experience, they'll disappear but for now expect more K'Andre Miller Sweepstakes, where there's a nightly giveaway and prizes.

 

[Lion Hound]

I was not a fan of the Miller pick at #22 in his draft year. I was on the Domonik Bokk, and Bode Wilde fanwagons. Not that I disliked the player, I disagreed with the scouting reports. Big physical two way defenseman with offensive upside. Watching him later in Wisconsin and with the US developmental program it was clear he wasn't the advertised physical player. He was however a very strong skater, that showed some high level skill. The long reach, the ability to match powerful skaters stride by stride off the rush. Join plays. Skate the puck up ice. Just had to drop the physical aspect, and understand the type of player he is. It wasn't a bad selection at all. He's a boy in mans body. I think having a Gallant here is a very strong personality for K'Andre to learn from.

This is a player that has all the tools he needs to be successful as a top 4 defenseman for years in this league. I think he needs 3 things to figure it out. Confidence in his own game. Maturity. Tenacity.

 

[Anthony5967]

I was not a fan of the Miller pick at #22 in his draft year. I was on the Domonik Bokk, and Bode Wilde fanwagons. Not that I disliked the player, I disagreed with the scouting reports. Big physical two way defenseman with offensive upside. Watching him later in Wisconsin and with the US developmental program it was clear he wasn't the advertised physical player. He was however a very strong skater, that showed some high level skill. The long reach, the ability to match powerful skaters stride by stride off the rush. Join plays. Skate the puck up ice. Just had to drop the physical aspect, and understand the type of player he is. It wasn't a bad selection at all. He's a boy in mans body. I think having a Gallant here is a very strong personality for K'Andre to learn from.

This is a player that has all the tools he needs to be successful as a top 4 defenseman for years in this league. I think he needs 3 things to figure it out. Confidence in his own game. Maturity. Tenacity.

I think as far as those 3 things, Kakko is the same. But Miller does have the opportunity to be a stud if he can become more physical.

 

[broadwayblue]

I was not a fan of the Miller pick at #22 in his draft year. I was on the Domonik Bokk, and Bode Wilde fanwagons. Not that I disliked the player, I disagreed with the scouting reports. Big physical two way defenseman with offensive upside. Watching him later in Wisconsin and with the US developmental program it was clear he wasn't the advertised physical player. He was however a very strong skater, that showed some high level skill. The long reach, the ability to match powerful skaters stride by stride off the rush. Join plays. Skate the puck up ice. Just had to drop the physical aspect, and understand the type of player he is. It wasn't a bad selection at all. He's a boy in mans body. I think having a Gallant here is a very strong personality for K'Andre to learn from.

This is a player that has all the tools he needs to be successful as a top 4 defenseman for years in this league. I think he needs 3 things to figure it out. Confidence in his own game. Maturity. Tenacity.

I wanted Bode Wilde...instead we took Olaf Lindbom. I wonder if I'll ever get over that pick. lol

 

[HFBS]

It's not just the horrible giveaways. It's that he acts as if touching an opposing player will give him cooties or Covid. He's a big guy and you assume he has some muscle but we've never seen it.

 

[duhmetreE]

I get the physical aspect. People want him to hit. We need to let go of that. It is what it is.

Jaccob Slavin is not physical and IMO is a level KAM could easily obtain.

He just turned 22 years old. I don't know what people expect from him. He's showing strong growth.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

It's not just the horrible giveaways. It's that he acts as if touching an opposing player will give him cooties or Covid. He's a big guy and you assume he has some muscle but we've never seen it.

But he does hit. He actually only has 12 hits less than Lindgren on the season. Does he blow players up? No, but that doesn't mean he isn't being physical out there.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I think he's progressing very well for his time in the nhl

 

[egelband]

I think that he can be, and occasionally already is, a dominant PMD. A guy that can beat a defense on his own. A bullet.
On top of being able to clog up the neutral zone.
That’s a dominant player. And he’s picking up these things very fast.

He’s not so reliable when the opponent gets control in the Rangers defensive end. But he can really be exceptional, I think. I wouldn’t trade him.

 

[bleedblue94]

Trouba has been generally outstanding this year, does anyone think that Miller in some ways is a part of that? I know he has his brain farts from time to time, but they have made a solid pairing for the most part.

I see talk of Miller being moved, but if he goes who steps into his spot in such a way that doesn't see mass chaos?

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Trouba has been generally outstanding this year, does anyone think that Miller in some ways is a part of that? I know he has his brain farts from time to time, but they have made a solid pairing for the most part.

I see talk of Miller being moved, but if he goes who steps into his spot in such a way that doesn't see mass chaos?

I agree. I think Miller is under appreciated around these parts. He has been very solid for a kid who just turned 22 and came into the league as a raw defenseman with less experience at the position than 99% of the kids drafted in his class.

And thats the one thing that scares me about potentially moving him. He still has room for a lot of growth and in 5-6 seasons could turn into an absolute machine

 

[Brief Candle]

For me he's an untouchable. This kid is only going to grow as a player and improve upon what is already a stellar showing all things considered. He has a long, bright future ahead of him, and I sure as hell don't want to see it happen in another jersey.

 

[bleedblue94]

I agree. I think Miller is under appreciated around these parts. He has been very solid for a kid who just turned 22 and came into the league as a raw defenseman with less experience at the position than 99% of the kids drafted in his class.

And thats the one thing that scares me about potentially moving him. He still has room for a lot of growth and in 5-6 seasons could turn into an absolute machine

He is NEVER going to be hedman, but he has hedman type physical tools, he doesnt have the iq, but hedman type physical tools are incredibly rare. That size with that skating is something so in demand in a playoff series where other players wear down from the grind.

 

[mas0764]

Trouba has been generally outstanding this year, does anyone think that Miller in some ways is a part of that? I know he has his brain farts from time to time, but they have made a solid pairing for the most part.

I see talk of Miller being moved, but if he goes who steps into his spot in such a way that doesn't see mass chaos?

Trouba's underlying metrics are pretty average and Miller's are worse, actually.

Trouba has been good in some aspects but to say he's been "generally outstanding," is a decent oversell.

 

[bleedblue94]

Trouba's underlying metrics are pretty average and Miller's are worse, actually.

Trouba has been good in some aspects but to say he's been "generally outstanding," is a decent oversell.

I appreciate the metrics, but watching the games he has been generally outstanding in bringing a lot of different facets to this team and playing hard minutes. I appreciate metrics, but I've seen plenty of metrics tell me that a shitty player has been good when you can see otherwise.

 

[nyr2k2]

Trouba's underlying metrics are pretty average and Miller's are worse, actually.

Trouba has been good in some aspects but to say he's been "generally outstanding," is a decent oversell.

It's tough looking at our defensemen because the entire team is generally horrible 5v5, which is partially on the defense but certainly not entirely. Literally every defender including Fox is below 50% in xGF%. All of them have a CF% way below 50%, and with Miller actually slightly ahead of Fox by a hair for first on the team (at an unsightly 47.11%). Other than Fox, Miller, and Trouba having good raw xGF numbers, there's really not much positive to say about any of our defensemen.

I feel like Trouba has generally been very good all season. Miller has had moments of excellence and moments of...not excellence. In general, I think he has been decent, but when you consider his age, experience, and the role he's playing, he has been good. Fox does brilliant things all over the ice but IMO has been a bit sloppy in the defensive end at times. Lindgren has been pretty good, but isn't at the level he was previously--he's gotten lost several times, isn't clearing the net as effectively as usual, and looks maybe a half-step slow. It's tough to characterize them--like I'd say Fox's play has him in the conversation for the Norris but he's 94th in xGF%. The metrics accurately reflect our 5v5 struggles but I think there's still room to assess the guys outside of their metrics.

 

[mas0764]

I appreciate the metrics, but watching the games he has been generally outstanding in bringing a lot of different facets to this team and playing hard minutes. I appreciate metrics, but I've seen plenty of metrics tell me that a shitty player has been good when you can see otherwise.

I appreciate your perspective and he's been better than in previous years but he's still not outstanding.

He's playing as a solid second pair defenseman. People have been calling him an all-star though, that's silly, he's not even close to that.

And frankly I don't know of many metrics that tell you a shitty player is good. Far more often it seems to tell you a player you think is good, isn't really good.

 

[bleedblue94]

I appreciate your perspective and he's been better than in previous years but he's still not outstanding.

He's playing as a solid second pair defenseman. People have been calling him an all-star though, that's silly, he's not even close to that.

And frankly I don't know of many metrics that tell you a shitty player is good. Far more often it seems to tell you a player you think is good, isn't really good.

There have been several instances of it, and instances of good players on bad teams having horrific numbers.

Or bad players on good teams that have great metrics and then they go to an average team and suddenly are exposed as being a product of their surroundings. This isnt worth rehashing the analytics talk again, I'm in no way blanketly discounting them, but I think it is inarguable that Trouba has been MILES better this year than in the past with a stable partner that he generally plays well with. I dont just discount that and act like Miller might not be a part of that improvement. Fox is an absolute stud, but when he doesnt play with lindgren he isnt as good overall and part of that is that the two of them just mesh well together. There is something to be said about the chemistry even for an elite player like Fox. Erik Karlsson was otherworldly playing with Marc Methot, and he gave him significant credit for that eve though Methot's metrics weren't good. Methot was otherwise an average NHL defenseman but he was perfect for Karlsson, just like a Leetch and Beukeboom pairing. All I am saying is 22 year old Miller has been quite good and has become the stable partner that has seen Trouba excel again, I dont take that for granted despite his occasional gaffs

 

[McRanger]

Trouba and Millers metrics outside of GA are abysmal. Decent GA%, coupled with winning games and how bad the 3rd pair has been is probably why people think they've been better than they have been.

Part of it is that they are not really a great fit together as neither player is, at least yet in Miller's case, particularity good defensively. People assume because Trouba is big and hits people that he is a defensive defenseman but really his strength lies on the other side of the game. And Miller is still too raw and young to really get a read on.

That said I do think a big part of the problem is Gallant sticking with Quinn's "here... have the blueline!" system. Letting the opposition walk through the neutral zone and into the D zone is a recipe for giving up shots and chances.

Its so striking to see Panarin, one of the most dangerous and shifty players in the league, immediately get pounced on at the blue line every time he enters the offensive zone... and then a minute later watch our defenders stand 15 feet inside their own zone while some random 3rd liner just walks in.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

 

[AIexisLafreniereNYR]

I don’t understand the hate for this kid? I wouldn’t trade him for anyone that isn’t a top star.

Kid makes mistake about he’s always well positioned, he’s fast, big, has a long reach. Wasn’t Chara pretty good prior to his Boston days?

Miller is going to be a top defenseman in a few years. He’s just 22. People forget how long defensemen typically develop. Fox, Makar are exceptions.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

I don’t understand the hate for this kid? I wouldn’t trade him for anyone that isn’t a top star.

Kid makes mistake about he’s always well positioned, he’s fast, big, has a long reach. Wasn’t Chara pretty good prior to his Boston days?

Miller is going to be a top defenseman in a few years. He’s just 22. People forget how long defensemen typically develop. Fox, Makar are exceptions.

I have a guess.
K’Andre came to the pro club with this great back story, tall, good looking North American kid who wanted to succeed so he could support his Mom who sacrificed so much for him. In his first year with the Rangers most posters were giddy with anticipation and understanding, saying he’s a rookie and also it takes longer for defensemen to develop.
At the end of his first year, cracks in his game were obvious. He was lost in the defensive zone and unwilling to take the body either along the boards, behind or in front of the net. His strengths being his reach, smooth skating and ability to carry the puck up ice.
When training camp this year began it was apparent that those afore mentioned flaws had not been addressed and posters began to state that it would probably be best if he started the year in Hartford.
Gord Murphy, Gallant and Chris Drury did not agree and kept him here. As the year progressed his game did not (exception was a two game string in November).
So as the number of posters started to build that wanted him to go to Hartford, they were met with pushback from other posters claiming how great he was and almost in every PGT stating “Miller had a great game tonight “ even when it was obvious he didn’t.
Earlier, just to be clear, there was no hate for Miller. If anything those posters were frustrated with the organization for potentially ruining another young player instead of getting him the help he needed.
Now this has gone on to long and the group that were upset with Miller being allowed to languish on the big club are being met with resistance from the group that believes he is fine and it will work itself out posters. Two of them going so far to claim that anyone who was against Miller was, you know, had “other reasons”.
So I believe the hate and now wanting Miller to be traded people are just pushing back to get the pro Miller groups goat.
For me , I wish they would send him down to work with Steve Smith so he will be ready in times for the playoffs. But since I’m worried that it won’t happen I would not be opposed to him being included in a trade that would address our Center needs. Or packaged along with other assets to obtain a stud LD on a favorable contract rather than him becoming a bust and eventually losing him for peanuts as another teams reclamation project.
Hope that answered your question.

 

[ThirdEye]

People who think there's an actual greater than 0% chance that he gets sent down are off their rockers. Guy has 100 NHL games under his belt and is playing 22-25 minutes a night on the regular.

He's either going to stay here and continue to develop or gets traded (which I oppose). He's not getting sent down.