Speculation: Kakko

[Albatros]

You are correct no one is calling Hyman a 30 point player when he is averaging 80 points over the past two seasons and last year he had 54 goals alone which is more then Kakko’s season high in points. While Hyman was/is off to a slow start he is starting to heat up again, so to suggest the two are comparable players at this point in their careers is utterly ridiculous. Furthermore, Hyman’s production comes against other teams top shutdown guys as opposed to the 3rd and 4th liners Kakko faces when he is in the lineup.

One can have 101 good reasons in Hyman's defense, but then still bashing the player that is better right now comes across as having an agenda rather than good faith. Harsh or lenient, fine, but not both selectively.

 

[Stealth JD]

Cozens doesn't need a new team. He needs a center.

I thought he WAS the center?

 

[Romang67]

Yes. He's produced well as a middle 6 winger at 5v5, with significantly positive rel GF% and rel xGF% numbers over the last 4 years.

Over the past 3 seasons before this one (in which he's on an on-ice sh% heater which will, inevitably, cool off), his P/60 on 5v5 hockey for players with over 1000 minutes played ranks at 275th, just ahead of Justin Danforth, but behind Teddy Blueger.

Is that really producing well?

At least you aren't bitter about it.

Just tired of excuse making for Laine. If you had to moderate during the attempt to turn HFJets into HFLaine, you'd be tired of the excuse making, conspiracy theories, and whining as well.

As it turns out, unshackling Laine from Winnipeg and letting him spread his wings away from the evil Jets didn't have the effect his army of fans predicted. Almost halfway through season 5 after the trade, 70 goals, 75 assists, for 145 points.

In the words of Stephen King: No great loss.

Edit: I just now realized that that may have been a play on my BitterSwede moniker.

 

[jaywills1020]

One can have 101 good reasons in Hyman's defense, but then still bashing the player that is better right now comes across as having an agenda rather than good faith. Harsh or lenient, fine, but not both selectively.

Hyman plays with McDavid. You can’t compare the 2. Knock it off.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Kakko for Cozens (25% retained)

Somehow the Cozens proposals keep getting worse, when I thought that was no longer possible.

 

[LOFIN]

Just tired of excuse making for Laine. If you had to moderate during the attempt to turn HFJets into HFLaine, you'd be tired of the excuse making, conspiracy theories, and whining as well.

As it turns out, unshackling Laine from Winnipeg and letting him spread his wings away from the evil Jets didn't have the effect his army of fans predicted. Almost halfway through season 5 after the trade, 70 goals, 75 assists, for 145 points.

When Laine was healthy in CBJ, he did actually play pretty well.

But that is besides the point. You f***ing continue to ignore that Bufuglien and Maurice also quit on the team, and the the captain of the team was first stripped of his letters and then bought out.

So maybe it wasn't just Laine, that room was f***ing toxic, and Laine was just one of the pieces that was a casualty. You can rejoice the fact that Laine has struggled since. But also take solace in that the first ever coach to actually resign because the team culture was f***ing too shitty, went on to two straight cup finals and won the SC on his next gig. Congratz.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Over the past 3 seasons before this one (in which he's on an on-ice sh% heater which will, inevitably, cool off), his P/60 on 5v5 hockey for players with over 1000 minutes played ranks at 275th, just ahead of Justin Danforth, but behind Teddy Blueger.

Is that really producing well?

He's not really on that much of a heater - 10.6% on ice sh% is high, but last year's 6.6% was unsustainably low. I think it makes sense to include both.

That said, in the span you mentioned, he's 245th among forwards, which means he's producing like a 7th forward (i.e. middle 6).

In the last 3 years including this season, he's 211th among the 404 forwards >1,000 mins. Again, that puts him smack dab in the range of "middle 6 forward".

He's ahead of guys like Kreider, Backlund, Granlund, Jenner, Vatrano, Hertl, Paul, Lundell, Sharangovich, and Teravainen, and just behind guys like Jarvis, ROR, McTavish, and Mercer.

Seems like he's producing well in his role while sustaining excellent underlying numbers.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

This a Kakko thread, the f*** all this other talk?

Kakko and KA Miller for Jokiharju, Quinn, and a 2nd.

 

[Fjordy]

This a Kakko thread, the f*** all this other talk?

Kakko and KA Miller for Jokiharju, Quinn, and a 2nd.

Why we need another LD?

 

[5cotland]

This a Kakko thread, the f*** all this other talk?

Kakko and KA Miller for Jokiharju, Quinn, and a 2nd.

Complaining about all the other talk when you post this monstrosity.

 

[elmaco]

Please not Buffalo for Kakko. I wish him well and Sabres ain't it. Lol

From the frying pan in to the fire lol.

 

[Pavlikovsky]

2nd + 3rd + Boucher/Guenette/Ostapchuk + Forsberg
for
Kakko + Quick ?

Apparently there is interest in Forsberg, so the rangers can flip him for like a 4th, 3rd with retention ?
Ottawa gets a better backup, Rangers get to flip Forsberg.

I think he could do well on Stutzle's wing and or the 3rd line with Pinto and Amadio.

 

[MW6]

I think he’d be a great fit for the Caps and he fits the MO of the management recently. I don’t know what would be of interest for the Rangers and how much it’d cost?

 

[Romang67]

When Laine was healthy in CBJ, he did actually play pretty well.

But that is besides the point. You f***ing continue to ignore that Bufuglien and Maurice also quit on the team, and the the captain of the team was first stripped of his letters and then bought out.

So maybe it wasn't just Laine, that room was f***ing toxic, and Laine was just one of the pieces that was a casualty. You can rejoice the fact that Laine has struggled since. But also take solace in that the first ever coach to actually resign because the team culture was f***ing too shitty, went on to two straight cup finals and won the SC on his next gig. Congratz.

I will never understand why people try to jump through such hoops to try to hide the fact that the guy who threatened a coach before he was drafted, was a locker room cancer for the Jets, and was healthy scratched by the Blue Jackets, was, is, and continue to be a malcontent. Is it because people thought he was gonna be really good once? 9 years into his career, and he's still bleeding scoring chances against 5v5 like almost no other player in the league, and for all intents and purposes a one-trick pony you try to hide unless it's time to push him out on the PP.



You can blame the Jets all you like. The Jets didn't completely implode post Maurice. They are a team without the elite talent to be among the elite teams. They were a really good team in 2018, lost their talent because of injuries (Byfuglien, who, which you seem to try so hard to avoid saying retired following the 2019 season after he got injured), other interests (Trouba), and cap casualties. After that, they were going nowhere. After a few years of going nowhere, Maurice resigned half a year before his contract was due to expire. Here is his actual explanation for why he resigned:

Paul Maurice reflects on decision to leave Jets ahead of emotional return to Winnipeg

Standing in front of a microphone ahead of his first game against the Winnipeg Jets, there were several soundbites that stood out that were more about sentimentality for time spent in a place that left an impression on both Paul Maurice and his entire family.

www.sportsnet.ca

Shockingly, it says nothing about a toxic locker room, and everything about every coach having a shelf life, and after 7 years as the Jets coach, it was just time to go. Same with Wheeler. It was time for another voice in the room.

This wasn't the sudden exodus of players you are pretending like it was. Byfuglien retired from hockey 2.5 years before Maurice resigned as a coach.

Good for Maurice on going to a team with more talent and having the effect he did early on with the Jets. No hard feelings about Maurice. He deserves his success. Every coach has a shelf life, and he stayed with the Jets much longer than does the average coach. IIRC, he resigned from the Jets as the longest or 2nd longest tenured coach in the league at the time.

Whatever problems the locker room had doesn't, of course, mean that Laine isn't a diva who is a problem everywhere he goes. The malcontent has imploded his own career. No great loss.

He's not really on that much of a heater - 10.6% on ice sh% is high, but last year's 6.6% was unsustainably low. I think it makes sense to include both.

That said, in the span you mentioned, he's 245th among forwards, which means he's producing like a 7th forward (i.e. middle 6).

In the last 3 years including this season, he's 211th among the 404 forwards >1,000 mins. Again, that puts him smack dab in the range of "middle 6 forward".

He's ahead of guys like Kreider, Backlund, Granlund, Jenner, Vatrano, Hertl, Paul, Lundell, Sharangovich, and Teravainen, and just behind guys like Jarvis, ROR, McTavish, and Mercer.

Seems like he's producing well in his role while sustaining excellent underlying numbers.

6.63 is considerably closer to where he has been through his career. He averaged in the high 7s through his first 5 seasons. I sincerely doubt that he has the high end talent on his own to maintain an on-ice sh% anywhere near 10, and expect it to drop down in the 8s again. 245th among forwards is also well into the group of 8th forward (7*32=224), and closer to 9th. He has been producing solidly like a 3rd liner. Sure, that's a middle 6er. Or a bottom 6er.

But yeah, he's probably a 3rd liner. He's Mason Appleton. Nothing wrong with being Mason Appleton. The Jets have their own Mason Appleton, and he's been on their 3rd line for years. It's also likely time for the Rangers to cash in on him before teams decide that he's probably not going to turn into a good pick at #2 overall, and is likely to go through his career being Mason Appleton.

 

[Wondercarrot]

If he gets moved I'd expect either a player of a similar pedigree who is also struggling in return

Incoming:

Jesperi Kotkaniemi​

 

[Trxjw]

Incoming:

Jesperi Kotkaniemi​

I'd be more than a little surprised to see them send Kakko to Carolina but honestly Kotkaniemi would be the sort of player I could see coming back.

 

[UnSandvich]

He's not really on that much of a heater - 10.6% on ice sh% is high, but last year's 6.6% was unsustainably low. I think it makes sense to include both.

That said, in the span you mentioned, he's 245th among forwards, which means he's producing like a 7th forward (i.e. middle 6).

In the last 3 years including this season, he's 211th among the 404 forwards >1,000 mins. Again, that puts him smack dab in the range of "middle 6 forward".

He's ahead of guys like Kreider, Backlund, Granlund, Jenner, Vatrano, Hertl, Paul, Lundell, Sharangovich, and Teravainen, and just behind guys like Jarvis, ROR, McTavish, and Mercer.

Seems like he's producing well in his role while sustaining excellent underlying numbers.

(His low on-ice Sh% last year can also be attributed in part to who he was center'd by last season. Zibanejad, who as we're seeing continue this season, is dogshit at 5v5. Bonino, who was closer to an ECHL'er than an NHL'er. Wennberg, who couldn't find the offensive zone if you taped him to the other team's goalie. The Chytil injury killed the Ranger C depth last year far worse than most non-Ranger fans realize)

 

[TheBeard]

#2 OAs seem to miss as often as they hit.

 

[elmaco]

I will never understand why people try to jump through such hoops to try to hide the fact that the guy who threatened a coach before he was drafted, was a locker room cancer for the Jets, and was healthy scratched by the Blue Jackets, was, is, and continue to be a malcontent. Is it because people thought he was gonna be really good once? 9 years into his career, and he's still bleeding scoring chances against 5v5 like almost no other player in the league, and for all intents and purposes a one-trick pony you try to hide unless it's time to push him out on the PP.



You can blame the Jets all you like. The Jets didn't completely implode post Maurice. They are a team without the elite talent to be among the elite teams. They were a really good team in 2018, lost their talent because of injuries (Byfuglien, who, which you seem to try so hard to avoid saying retired following the 2019 season after he got injured), other interests (Trouba), and cap casualties. After that, they were going nowhere. After a few years of going nowhere, Maurice resigned half a year before his contract was due to expire. Here is his actual explanation for why he resigned:

Paul Maurice reflects on decision to leave Jets ahead of emotional return to Winnipeg

Standing in front of a microphone ahead of his first game against the Winnipeg Jets, there were several soundbites that stood out that were more about sentimentality for time spent in a place that left an impression on both Paul Maurice and his entire family.

www.sportsnet.ca

Shockingly, it says nothing about a toxic locker room, and everything about every coach having a shelf life, and after 7 years as the Jets coach, it was just time to go. Same with Wheeler. It was time for another voice in the room.

This wasn't the sudden exodus of players you are pretending like it was. Byfuglien retired from hockey 2.5 years before Maurice resigned as a coach.

Good for Maurice on going to a team with more talent and having the effect he did early on with the Jets. No hard feelings about Maurice. He deserves his success. Every coach has a shelf life, and he stayed with the Jets much longer than does the average coach. IIRC, he resigned from the Jets as the longest or 2nd longest tenured coach in the league at the time.

Whatever problems the locker room had doesn't, of course, mean that Laine isn't a diva who is a problem everywhere he goes. The malcontent has imploded his own career. No great loss.


6.63 is considerably closer to where he has been through his career. He averaged in the high 7s through his first 5 seasons. I sincerely doubt that he has the high end talent on his own to maintain an on-ice sh% anywhere near 10, and expect it to drop down in the 8s again. 245th among forwards is also well into the group of 8th forward (7*32=224), and closer to 9th. He has been producing solidly like a 3rd liner. Sure, that's a middle 6er. Or a bottom 6er.

But yeah, he's probably a 3rd liner. He's Mason Appleton. Nothing wrong with being Mason Appleton. The Jets have their own Mason Appleton, and he's been on their 3rd line for years. It's also likely time for the Rangers to cash in on him before teams decide that he's probably not going to turn into a good pick at #2 overall, and is likely to go through his career being Mason Appleton.

Very bad take on Laine. Winnipeg has sucked in the playoffs so bad recently, the only two times they actually went deeper was when Laine was on the team, 17-18 and 20-21.

 

[Romang67]

Very bad take on Laine. Winnipeg has sucked in the playoffs so bad recently, the only two times they actually went deeper was when Laine was on the team, 17-18 and 20-21.

You want a do-over on that one, or are you okay with your claim that Laine was on the Jets in 20-21? Because he wasn't. He had been released from the oppression of the Winnipeg Jets, and put up 21 points in 45 games for the Blue Jackets that season, leading them to a last place in the central division.

The Jets went deep in the playoffs when the team was strong all around and finished with the 2nd most points in the league. The Jets have since been a middling team, and unsurprisingly, have had issues getting past the 1st round in the playoffs. It turns out that if your team finishes the regular season with less than 100 points, they are probably not going to crush their playoff opponents. The one outlier being last year when they were crushed by the Avs, as their goaltending got cold at exactly the wrong time.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

6.63 is considerably closer to where he has been through his career. He averaged in the high 7s through his first 5 seasons. I sincerely doubt that he has the high end talent on his own to maintain an on-ice sh% anywhere near 10, and expect it to drop down in the 8s again.

His avg over the last 3 years including this year is 8.4%. Over that span, he's 211th out of 404 forwards in p/60. That's the definition of middle 6.

245th among forwards is also well into the group of 8th forward (7*32=224), and closer to 9th. He has been producing solidly like a 3rd liner. Sure, that's a middle 6er. Or a bottom 6er.

245/32 = 7.65
211/32 - 6.59

But yeah, he's probably a 3rd liner.

Are guys like Kreider, Granlund, Jenner, Hertl, Lundell, Sharangovich 3rd liners as well? I would call them middle 6 guys.

He's Mason Appleton. Nothing wrong with being Mason Appleton. The Jets have their own Mason Appleton, and he's been on their 3rd line for years. It's also likely time for the Rangers to cash in on him before teams decide that he's probably not going to turn into a good pick at #2 overall, and is likely to go through his career being Mason Appleton.

He's outproduced Appleton by >10% over the last 3 years, and by even more if you go back further.

 

[elmaco]

You want a do-over on that one, or are you okay with your claim that Laine was on the Jets in 20-21? Because he wasn't. He had been released from the oppression of the Winnipeg Jets, and put up 21 points in 45 games for the Blue Jackets that season, leading them to a last place in the central division.

The Jets went deep in the playoffs when the team was strong all around and finished with the 2nd most points in the league. The Jets have since been a middling team, and unsurprisingly, have had issues getting past the 1st round in the playoffs. It turns out that if your team finishes the regular season with less than 100 points, they are probably not going to crush their playoff opponents. The one outlier being last year when they were crushed by the Avs, as their goaltending got cold at exactly the wrong time.

Yeah that was my bad, he was on the roster list but only played 3 games. Jets still did good when Laine was on the team. Defense was the problem and blaming Laine as a cancer is just deflecting from the real issue.

 

[Romang67]

His avg over the last 3 years including this year is 8.4%. Over that span, he's 211th out of 404 forwards in p/60. That's the definition of middle 6.

245/32 = 7.65
211/32 - 6.59

Are guys like Kreider, Granlund, Jenner, Hertl, Lundell, Sharangovich 3rd liners as well? I would call them middle 6 guys.

He's outproduced Appleton by >10% over the last 3 years, and by even more if you go back further.

16/32 = 0.5.
48/32 = 1.5

The former makes you a #1 forward, not a #0 forward. You have every single forward in the top 7 for every team ahead of you at #245, plus another #8 forward for 21 other teams. So, as I said, 8th forward, closer to 9th than 7th. 3rd liner.

I wouldn't have any issues at all calling players like Jenner 3rd liners, who can play on the PP. Jenner scored at a 1.5P/60 clip over the past 2 seasons 5v5. Other than one season, he has never been a scorer 5v5.

No need to go back more than that. Okay, I'll give you that he's 1.1*Mason Appleton in production, which is as we've said scoring at a 3rd line level. He also gives you nothing on special teams. So I'd call that a wash.

Again, having essentially a Mason Appleton is fine. The Jets have one. I'm not sure the Jets could get much value out of trading Mason Appleton, which is why I think the Rangers should jump on the opportunity to get value for their slightly better Mason Appleton. Most teams have one of them. He's not a negative for the team. He's not replacement level. He's just kinda there, being an NHLer.

 

[HuGort]

With his comments about Laviolette scratching him, it's very likely he will get traded. What are likely destinations and returns for NYR?

Maybe a 2nd? A team make take a flyer on him

 

[bernmeister]

Kakko has more 5vs5 points than Zibanejad & Kreider. He has almost 0pp and is averaging 13.17min/gp on the 3rd line. Second best +/- on the team. I`m confident he would fetch atleast a low 1st.

More

OTT: Kakko

NYR: Greig, Guenette

More
also, better deals for NYR-OTT

I'd consider something around Nemec for Kakko. Kakko is really underrated just because he hasn't piled up low calorie points.

This is something I could see.
Rs should not move KK b'c eye test confirms he is very good 5x5, excellent def., proven by 2 versions of kid line; mo upside when he has good linemates.

That said, Jersey enjoying surplus D has Nemec in the A.
Rs are thin on backline.
Swap of former 2OAs

Good first stab, what would you want on a larger deal including rights to Silayev?
Nemec + Silayev
for
KK + __________

I’d love kakko on Anaheim…. Idk what we have that fits rangers need tho unless they like a guy like Vatrano.

i assume they’d prefer help now than futures

you know better than that x 2
we want futures and have to be sufficiently high quality to merit consideration
I like Vats, but not for younger guy w/upside

We need a center if we move a center. Give you Kulich and Samuelsson. Maybe a swap for Quinn (would hurt me to do that though)

no, need mo/better

I want him but for scraps

well at least yr honest

"Has long been considered an overrated stat" - By stupid fans, with no knowledge whatsoever! If a player play minimal PP/PK, thoose stats are very valuable! Your team score more than the opponent and you are a valuable piece for the team. Use your brain. It helps.

Never seen a mod this biased. Get some help. You actually might have some problems...

While we all make mistakes I would not go remotely this far about @Machinehead
I know one arguably actually biased, but I won't say.

back on pt, IMO @Machinehead is just wrong on this particular evaluation

How about Vatrano + Ian Moore (he probably wants to be a Bruin or Ranger like Thrun) + conditional 3rd if Vatrano doensn't resign for Kaako + Rempe

Way to the hell no
and soon as those idiots listen to me and jettison Vesey, Rempe returns!

2nd + 3rd + Boucher/Guenette/Ostapchuk + Forsberg
for
Kakko + Quick ?

Apparently there is interest in Forsberg, so the rangers can flip him for like a 4th, 3rd with retention ?
Ottawa gets a better backup, Rangers get to flip Forsberg.

I think he could do well on Stutzle's wing and or the 3rd line with Pinto and Amadio.

no, although we could ask Quick who signed here b'c he wants to be here to take one for the team and let us rental him out as expiring
In such instance, would want to promote Garand, no desire for Forsberg, you flip him.

The Rs-Sens deal is
Fox + earlier down the road 2nd [our next is coupla yrs away]
for
Kleven, Pinto + Grieg + later down the road 1st [like 2029-ish]