Prospect Info: Kaiden Guhle II

[Tyson]

What are the chances that Guhle goes back to the CHL and also plays WJC. Then we consider calling him up in January sometime? Keep his games under 40 where his RFA years are not triggered until next season. He would play a fair amount of CHL/WJC games from now till mid January.

I don't know many rules but once you send him back he is there for the season.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't know many rules but once you send him back he is there for the season.

I was wondering about that. I recall other examples but I believe they were emergency call ups. Leafs did that with Kadri back when if I remember correctly

 

[Adam Michaels]

What are the chances that Guhle goes back to the CHL and also plays WJC. Then we consider calling him up in January sometime? Keep his games under 40 where his RFA years are not triggered until next season. He would play a fair amount of CHL/WJC games from now till mid January.

I don't know about calling him back up in January. But they did it with Sergachev. When his junior season ended, they brought him up. So the same could be done with Guhle. But if you send him back to Junior, it's for the whole year, not half the year.

 

[MisterY]

So very early Pairings:
Romanov-Petry
Ghule-Savard
Edmondson-Norlinder

no Mailloux?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't know about calling him back up in January. But they did it with Sergachev. When his junior season ended, they brought him up. So the same could be done with Guhle. But if you send him back to Junior, it's for the whole year, not half the year.

K, so you can only call them up in an emergency situation or when their CHL season ends. I guess that's reasonable cause it would really mess with CHL teams competitiveness during the season

 

[Adam Michaels]

no Mailloux?

Why Mailloux when the kid isn't signed and won't participate in anything with the Habs until at least next rookie camp.

 

[Adam Michaels]

K, so you can only call them up in an emergency situation or when their CHL season ends. I guess that's reasonable cause it would really mess with CHL teams competitiveness during the season

I don't know if it has to be on emergency basis. I believe Sergachev was brought up on emergency basis because Habs had injuries. I'm going off memory here.

But it's not uncommon for prospects in the CHL to join the organization when their Junior season ends. Most though join the AHL team.

 

[Essenege]

It definitely wouldn't have hurt him, he was rushed plain and simple

OR…he would be a lesser player because he wouldn’t have had 200 GP of play against top competition. Faster game and more game played per season then in Europe.

In retrospect, the correct play was to send him down but the reason is we burned through ELC years and got skunked. Development wise…again…you don’t know and I dont know.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So you know where KK would be as a player if he played the last 2 years in Europe vs lesser competition? I’d like to have your crystal ball.

Think of it more in terms of asset management for a prospect who did not dominate a development league prior to the NHL. It was very risky to make that move and I was very vocal about it when they did. I loved the pick and long term prospect narrative but the whole thing was derailed cause they inserted him due to center need.

In his age 16 season, he was injured. In his age 17 season, he played bottom 2C role in the Liiga league. Habs leap frogged him from bottom 2C to 3C in the NHL where they took away a chance for him to dominate a league prior to the NHL. This was a major miscalculation and it had a lot to do with Julien and the centers he had... Danault, Peca, DLR. Drouin failed at center the year before and we didn't know how Domi would do at center at that point. Of course KK would look like an option at that point. Very premature management. Bergevin should have blocked Julien from making that move.

Caufield and Suzuki were allowed to dominate a league prior to the NHL. With Guhle, he was not able to do that last year due to Covid derailment of the WHL.

KK was rushed and then rag dolled when he struggled in the intangible areas of the NHL center role. Habs are to blame on this and Bergevin admitted to be open for that criticism recently

 

[Essenege]

Think of it more in terms of asset management for a prospect who did not dominate a development league prior to the NHL. It was very risky to make that move and I was very vocal about it when they did. I loved the pick and long term prospect narrative but the whole thing was derailed cause they inserted him due to center need.

In his age 16 season, he was injured. In his age 17 season, he played bottom 2C role in the Liiga league. Habs leap frogged him from bottom 2C to 3C in the NHL where they took away a chance for him to dominate a league prior to the NHL. This was a major miscalculation and it had a lot to do with Julien and the centers he had... Danault, Peca, DLR. Drouin failed at center the year before and we didn't know how Domi would do at center at that point. Of course KK would look like an option at that point. Very premature management. Bergevin should have blocked Julien from making that move.

Caufield and Suzuki were allowed to dominate a league prior to the NHL. With Guhle, he was not able to do that last year due to Covid derailment of the WHL.

KK was rushed and then rag dolled when he struggled in the intangible areas of the NHL center role. Habs are to blame on this and Bergevin admitted to be open for that criticism recently

In terms of asset management, it was without debate a bad play.

In terms of development, I mean who knows? Cody Glass, 6th OV pick, didn’t establish himself as an NHL player at 20/21 despite torching the WHL in his D+1, D+2 seasons. Torching juniors or European isn’t a prerequisite nor a guarantee for NHL success. Bergeron and O’reilly didn’t burn juniors before making the NHL at 18…..

My whole point is, if management think Guhle is a sure fire NHLer right now, because he process the game fast enough, he’s mature physically and his game is mistake free…don’t use the « he’ll develop better in juniors » card because that is not truthful, at least not for every player.

Use the « we don’t want to burn a ELC year for a slight upgrade on the bottom pairing card », which is reasonable enough.

 

[Habs Halifax]

In terms of asset management, it was without debate a bad play.

In terms of development, I mean who knows? Cody Glass, 6th OV pick, didn’t establish himself as an NHL player at 20/21 despite torching the WHL in his D+1, D+2 seasons. Torching juniors or European isn’t a prerequisite nor a guarantee for NHL success. Bergeron and O’reilly didn’t burn juniors before making the NHL at 18…..

My whole point is, if management think Guhle is a sure fire NHLer right now, because he processed the game fast enough, he’s mature physically and his game is mistake free…don’t use the « he’ll develop better in juniors » card because that is not truthful, at least not for every player.

Use the « we don’t want to burn a ELC year for a slight upgrade on the bottom pairing card », which is reasonable enough.

The point is you are asking for development trouble when you rush guys. Who they end up turning into might not change but the rollercoaster ride can be avoided.

With Guhle, he looks very very good in skating, and ability to play a mature game in the NHL. However, no matter how much confidence you have, you can't predict the future. It's best to allow him to dominate the CHL and let him gain more and more confidence on a safer development road. How the Blue Jays managed Guerrero in terms of asset management and holding him back is a perfect example of it.

Do I think Guhle helps us this season? Yes I do and many of us fans and probably management feels that way too. But the safer decision is to allow him to dominate the WHL and start his ELC at age 20/21 next year. You will get more value out of his ELC that way and he will be allowed to dominate a development league prior to the NHL.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Honestly no chance he sticks with Habs no matter how well he does in camp. That being said, I dont' see an issue with keeping him for 9 games or less in the NHL to give him a taste of what to expect, and send him back to juniors and WHC to dominate.

Next year, start him off in Laval to get used to the pace and bring him up if he's dominating down there. No need to rush him at all. Let him dominate each level before bringing him up and he'll be a stud NHL D in a few years.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Even Ducharme alludes to the fact they will send him back to Junior. He's mentioned multiple times during camp that you never hear of a prospect waiting too long to make the NHL, but you hear of a prospect that started too soon.

 

[HabsForHire]

In terms of asset management, it was without debate a bad play.

In terms of development, I mean who knows? Cody Glass, 6th OV pick, didn’t establish himself as an NHL player at 20/21 despite torching the WHL in his D+1, D+2 seasons. Torching juniors or European isn’t a prerequisite nor a guarantee for NHL success. Bergeron and O’reilly didn’t burn juniors before making the NHL at 18…..

My whole point is, if management think Guhle is a sure fire NHLer right now, because he process the game fast enough, he’s mature physically and his game is mistake free…don’t use the « he’ll develop better in juniors » card because that is not truthful, at least not for every player.

Use the « we don’t want to burn a ELC year for a slight upgrade on the bottom pairing card », which is reasonable enough.

You actually trust this management group ?

 

[Essenege]

You actually trust this management group ?

Yeah. I like where we are going.

Good young players on offense with prime age vets.

Aging D (Weber out, Petry older) but still good enough for now and stellar prospect pool at that position so we might avoid the cliff (Guhle, Harris, Struble, Romanov might all be on the team in 3 years)

There was some good work done on the retooling.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Even Ducharme alludes to the fact they will send him back to Junior. He's mentioned multiple times during camp that you never hear of a prospect waiting too long to make the NHL, but you hear of a prospect that started too soon.

Bergevin, Ducharme, and Timmins would have to be complete idiots to insert Guhle into the NHL after he was not able to dominate a development league and right after loosing KK with an offer sheet where they also rushed him and then rad dolled his development which created a situation for the Canes to think they can steal him away with a 1st/3rd and it worked! Not saying it would go down exactly like that with Guhle but it's a risky road to take.

I believe Bergevin leaned yet another lesson as a NHL GM with the KK situation. They will avoid rushing guys now due to team need.

 

[HabsForHire]

Yeah. I like where we are going.

Good young players on offense with prime age vets.

Aging D (Weber out, Petry older) but still good enough for now and stellar prospect pool at that position so we might avoid the cliff (Guhle, Harris, Struble, Romanov might all be on the team in 3 years)

There was some good work done on the retooling.

I like our direction too, i meant trust in development because we have seen time and time again how often we rush/ruin players

 

[Essenege]

I like our direction too, i meant trust in development because we have seen time and time again how often we rush/ruin players

Ha! I just don’t know to be honest. In my head like 80% of the development is in the player’s hand.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

No need to waive either of them. They can send Niku on waivers to be sent to Laval. Then, for a few games, they can carry 8D with Guhle. And then they send him back to Junior. But as I mentioned in my post you quoted, only if Guhle earns it.

With Niku on waivers, we have a 23 player roster.
We have 14 forwards (includes Poehling and Hoffman),.
We have 7 D (includes Wideman and Kulak).
And we have 2 goalies.

Hoffman won't be put on IR since he will be close to returning.

 

[Adam Michaels]

With Niku on waivers, we have a 23 player roster.
We have 14 forwards (includes Poehling and Hoffman),.
We have 7 D (includes Wideman and Kulak).
And we have 2 goalies.

Hoffman won't be put on IR since he will be close to returning.

If Poehling makes the team out of camp, they can place Hoffman on IR until he's back. On September 25th, they announced that Hoffman will be out 4 weeks. So that would make his return end of October. Placing him on IR opens up a roster spot.

So you run with 13F & 8D.