Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[WojtekWolski86]

I think Kakko knows he's getting maybe his first real opportunity here right now. Being asked to move to center is a big ask. I think he was excited to be rewarded with something, given a chance to have a real impactful role. And I think there's aspects of center that fit with him too, that I've said for a long time, since we drafted him. But I really get the sense this is about Kakko finally excited, with some encouragement behind him, not afraid to fail and get shuffled back into the deck. JMHO. Hope it continues and if it's at center, all the better. We're suddenly very short on those.

Also 3Cs get paid more than 3RW. Lineup versatility and penalty kill ability are skills not just intangibles that add value come contract time as well as self worth. You feel like a contributor on the team and in some cases the team may be dependant on you which is something he hasn't felt since before he was drafted.

 

[bhamill]

don't know what this quasi logic is but i don't really agree.

There’s nothing quasi at all.
A. Players who are capable of the kind of bounce back season Kakko is having generally have a strong belief in themselves.
B. Players who would accept a 5 year contract at a half million per year better than a “show me” contract generally do NOT have a strong belief in themselves.
C. It’s difficult to have both of these mindsets at the same time. The two mindsets are at odds with each other.
You’re free to disagree with this, but it’s kind of obvious.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Is this serious? I can't believe HFNYR's undying, ludicrous wish to move a winger to center has actually been granted.

Let's see how long it lasts. Bet he looks great and then whoever's in charge changes that again.

 

[IDvsEGO]

There’s nothing quasi at all.
A. Players who are capable of the kind of bounce back season Kakko is having generally have a strong belief in themselves.
B. Players who would accept a 5 year contract at a half million per year better than a “show me” contract generally do NOT have a strong belief in themselves.
C. It’s difficult to have both of these mindsets at the same time. The two mindsets are at odds with each other.
You’re free to disagree with this, but it’s kind of obvious.

As I said previously, the one year deal this year seemed fairly indicative that Kakko does want to stay in nyc.
That could lead him to taking a little less. Not 2-3m per year but something closer to 4x 5m or something of that nature.

 

[Mac n Gs]

My only complaint of his play at C was that there were shifts where he'd make good plays with the puck to maintain possession in the offensive zone and then immediately skate to the below the left circle waiting for something to happen else to happen. That's not his fault as much as it is coaching, but I do want to see him try to be more engaged through the middle of the ice if he's going to stick at C.

Otherwise, I thought it was a pretty promising game from him

 

[noncents]

There’s nothing quasi at all.
A. Players who are capable of the kind of bounce back season Kakko is having generally have a strong belief in themselves.
B. Players who would accept a 5 year contract at a half million per year better than a “show me” contract generally do NOT have a strong belief in themselves.
C. It’s difficult to have both of these mindsets at the same time. The two mindsets are at odds with each other.
You’re free to disagree with this, but it’s kind of obvious.

not only is it not completely obvious, it's a complete crock of shit. There's so much logical fallacy here it's almost impenetrable.

Are you saying that he didn't believe in himself last year? That performance on ice is a function of how much a player believes in themself at a given time? You clearly assert it's "obvious" that this nebulous, impossible-to-measure quotient of self belief is at least a factor in performance: how much? Which players on the rangers have it, and to what extent? Which don't?

These are all rhetorical questions because there's no way to reasonably and rationally answer them. The notion that you can interpret an element as shifting and dynamic as that which inheres on the axis of human doubt and confidence, borne out in hockey play, from the *non-existence* of a long term contract - that we don't even know was offered - is asinine.

You and Kupo are missing the point. Most fans believed, after last year, that he would not be able to be a productive player. I and some others had seen process to his development and trends in his play that showed otherwise. We expressed that and emphasized it by advocating for a long term deal.

Whether the deal happened or not is not important - we have no control over that. But the advocacy for such a deal is evidence of our belief that, despite what others SWORE up and down about Kakko, he was not only a good player but should be locked up at whatever bargain might have been available. We were summarily mocked and dismissed. Now everyone wants to sign him and I feel vindicated.

Again: the contract that might or might not have been discussed or existed is not the point. That we believed he deserved it, when most disagreed, is what matters

 

[bhamill]

not only is it not completely obvious, it's a complete crock of shit. There's so much logical fallacy here it's almost impenetrable.

Are you saying that he didn't believe in himself last year? That performance on ice is a function of how much a player believes in themself at a given time? You clearly assert it's "obvious" that this nebulous, impossible-to-measure quotient of self belief is at least a factor in performance: how much? Which players on the rangers have it, and to what extent? Which don't?

These are all rhetorical questions because there's no way to reasonably and rationally answer them. The notion that you can interpret an element as shifting and dynamic as that which inheres on the axis of human doubt and confidence, borne out in hockey play, from the *non-existence* of a long term contract - that we don't even know was offered - is asinine.

You and Kupo are missing the point. Most fans believed, after last year, that he would not be able to be a productive player. I and some others had seen process to his development and trends in his play that showed otherwise. We expressed that and emphasized it by advocating for a long term deal.

Whether the deal happened or not is not important - we have no control over that. But the advocacy for such a deal is evidence of our belief that, despite what others SWORE up and down about Kakko, he was not only a good player but should be locked up at whatever bargain might have been available. We were summarily mocked and dismissed. Now everyone wants to sign him and I feel vindicated.

Again: the contract that might or might not have been discussed or existed is not the point. That we believed he deserved it, when most disagreed, is what matters

They aren’t all rhetorical.
He was obviously injured and had a bad season last year, and I specifically noted his belief in himself as a factor in his being able to bounce back. And nowhere did I say it was the only factor. Of course you need ability too. What kind of ridiculous assumption was that?
Your post is frankly nonsense and there are two good possibilities here: you just don’t get it, which I doubt since you do not seem like an idiot to me, and the concept is completely uncomplicated. Seriously, why the f*** would a player who believes in himself jump at a 5 year deal, giving up 4 UFA years fora contract with an AAV barely above the showme contract he signed? Talk about a crock of shit.
OR you do get it are just obstinate and unable to admit that you had a flawed idea. This seems way more likely. Especially with the level of bent out of shape you are showing here.
Either way I don’t give any further of a shit. Have at it.

 

[Peltz]

Is this serious? I can't believe HFNYR's undying, ludicrous wish to move a winger to center has actually been granted.

Let's see how long it lasts. Bet he looks great and then whoever's in charge changes that again.

To be honest, I think he works as a C and may even be good, but I prefer him to play at RW once Chytil comes back. He's just way more noticeable along the boards for me.

 

[noncents]

They aren’t all rhetorical.
He was obviously injured and had a bad season last year, and I specifically noted his belief in himself as a factor in his being able to bounce back. And nowhere did I say it was the only factor. Of course you need ability too. What kind of ridiculous assumption was that?
Your post is frankly nonsense and there are two good possibilities here: you just don’t get it, which I doubt since you do not seem like an idiot to me, and the concept is completely uncomplicated. Seriously, why the f*** would a player who believes in himself jump at a 5 year deal, giving up 4 UFA years fora contract with an AAV barely above the showme contract he signed? Talk about a crock of shit.
OR you do get it are just obstinate and unable to admit that you had a flawed idea. This seems way more likely. Especially with the level of bent out of shape you are showing here.
Either way I don’t give any further of a shit. Have at it.

again - the reason he might have signed the deal could have been that he wanted long term security and life changing money in a city he "wow it's a nice" and on a team he enjoys playing for. He had been scratched in the playoffs. His future is not certain. It happens all the time.


But you're still avoiding the point - it's not about what contract was or wasn't available. it's about the discrepancy between his perceived value on this board and his actual potential value.

Kakko haters were numerous and vociferous, they were also wrong, and are now silent. How many posters in here have acknowledged their error? How many have said, "wow if I thought this guy was krappo krappo, I must not be looking at the right things. How can i use this experience to rethink how I evaluate players?"

 

[Sisu4ever]

I have always believed Kakko will have a very successful NHL career. He will be as successful as he was pre-draft in Finland. Finns are generally very loyal so I think he really wants to stay with NYR. But if he needs to move to a better suited team, so be it, I will still support him!

 

[bhamill]

again - the reason he might have signed the deal could have been that he wanted long term security and life changing money in a city he "wow it's a nice" and on a team he enjoys playing for. He had been scratched in the playoffs. His future is not certain. It happens all the time.


But you're still avoiding the point - it's not about what contract was or wasn't available. it's about the discrepancy between his perceived value on this board and his actual potential value.

Kakko haters were numerous and vociferous, they were also wrong, and are now silent. How many posters in here have acknowledged their error? How many have said, "wow if I thought this guy was krappo krappo, I must not be looking at the right things. How can i use this experience to rethink how I evaluate players?"

I’ve never been a Kakko hater. I’ve been banging the drum since last year that his FLOOR is a defensively stalwart 0.5ppg winger… I’ve said that, while he’s not untouchable, we should absolutely NOT sell low on him. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else. My only point is that one of the things that facilitated his bounce back, his belief in himself, is the same thing that prevented him signing what would have basically been a 5 year show me contract giving up 4 UFA years. We agree on the other stuff.

 

[noncents]

I’ve never been a Kakko hater. I’ve been banging the drum since last year that his FLOOR is a defensively stalwart 0.5ppg winger… I’ve said that, while he’s not untouchable, we should absolutely NOT sell low on him. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else. My only point is that one of the things that facilitated his bounce back, his belief in himself, is the same thing that prevented him signing what would have basically been a 5 year show me contract giving up 4 UFA years. We agree on the other stuff.

we can agree to disagree on the "belief in himself" idea.

i never accused you of being a kakko hater. if you weren't, you can count yourself among us who were right.