Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[Jaromir Jagr]

Why do you think it’s “this game”? It’s every game. He had a few good games, but he’s a non factor. If we played Hunt over him we likely wouldn’t notice a difference.

This is the type of defensiveness that has created the division in the Kakko talk. It’s not a knee jerk reaction to one game. It’s a cumulative, ever growing level of disappointment.

He is 21 years old, coming off an injury and playing the most important games of his life. This is extremely valuable for his future, regardless of how he performs. He is not being asked to put the team on his back.

It seems that a lot of people don't get this and expect him to just be a star and making differences game in game out. Do you remember what other players were like at 21? Probably not most since they aren't even sniffing the NHL. Young players are inconsistent, that's life, unless we're talking about generational talents.

Hunt should be playing, but can do so over Reaves who hasn't been impactful since period 1 of game 1in the Pens series. If there's anyone that should be out of the lineup, it should be him who does nothing. I also have much more of a gripe with how our more veteran "star" players have performed, especially the "first" line.

 

[SA16]

He is 21 years old, coming off an injury and playing the most important games of his life. This is extremely valuable for his future, regardless of how he performs. He is not being asked to put the team on his back.

It seems that a lot of people don't get this and expect him to just be a star and making differences game in game out. Do you remember what other players were like at 21? Probably not most since they aren't even sniffing the NHL. Young players are inconsistent, that's life, unless we're talking about generational talents.

Hunt should be playing, but can do so over Reaves who hasn't been impactful since period 1 of game 1in the Pens series. If there's anyone that should be out of the lineup, it should be him who does nothing. I also have much more of a gripe with how our more veteran "star" players have performed, especially the "first" line.

Well here's the production of every other #2 overall forward since 2005 in their 3rd year after being drafted:

1. Svechnikov - 15 goals, 42 points, 55 games
2. Patrick: - 4 goals, 5 points, 9 games
3. Laine - 30 goals, 50 points, in 82 games
4. Eichel - 25 goals, 64 points, 67 games
5. Reinhart: 17 goals, 30 points, 47 games
6. Barkov: 28 goals, 59 points, 66 games
7. Landeskog: 26 goals, 65 points, 81 games
8. Seguin: 16 goals, 32 points, 48 games (this was the lockout year)
9. JVR: 15 goals, 35 points, 78 games (This was his rookie year...didn't play in the NHL his first two seasons)
10. J. Staal: 22 goals, 49 points, in 82 games
11. Ryan: Only played 23 games and it was his rookie year...31 goals, 57 points, 64 points in his first full year

Kakko: 7 goals, 18 points, 43 games

If you're preaching patience or not expecting a top six player in his third year your expectations are too low. Every single one of these guys with the exception of Patrick was scoring at a much higher level. And yes, I'm sure most of them got way more PP time but Kakko's 5v5 scoring rates have not been good either. I do think he's a good player right now though. His all around game is good. He's not a liability on the ice. But just purely in terms of offensive production based on the history of #2 overalls you should be expecting at least a 50pt/82 game pace at this point (or the equivalent when you consider his ice time and PP role) and if you weren't expecting that then for some reason you were basically expecting him to be the worst #2 overall pick offensively in 15 years.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Everyone,

I punched some algorithms and did some maths on my Computron 2000. For the 2025-26 season, Computron has concluded:

Lafreniere: 54G 51A 105 PTS

Kakko: 32G 35A 67 PTS

Chytil: 18G 57A 75 PTS

Unfortunately, Kakko plays for St. Louis and Chytil plays for Philadelphia.

Who did we trade Laf to?

 

[huerter]

What is sisu? You mean Zizou?

Sisu - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ReddestRum]

Well here's the production of every other #2 overall forward since 2005 in their 3rd year after being drafted:

1. Svechnikov - 15 goals, 42 points, 55 games
2. Patrick: - 4 goals, 5 points, 9 games
3. Laine - 30 goals, 50 points, in 82 games
4. Eichel - 25 goals, 64 points, 67 games
5. Reinhart: 17 goals, 30 points, 47 games
6. Barkov: 28 goals, 59 points, 66 games
7. Landeskog: 26 goals, 65 points, 81 games
8. Seguin: 16 goals, 32 points, 48 games (this was the lockout year)
9. JVR: 15 goals, 35 points, 78 games (This was his rookie year...didn't play in the NHL his first two seasons)
10. J. Staal: 22 goals, 49 points, in 82 games
11. Ryan: Only played 23 games and it was his rookie year...31 goals, 57 points, 64 points in his first full year

Kakko: 7 goals, 18 points, 43 games

If you're preaching patience or not expecting a top six player in his third year your expectations are too low. Every single one of these guys with the exception of Patrick was scoring at a much higher level. And yes, I'm sure most of them got way more PP time but Kakko's 5v5 scoring rates have not been good either. I do think he's a good player right now though. His all around game is good. He's not a liability on the ice. But just purely in terms of offensive production based on the history of #2 overalls you should be expecting at least a 50pt/82 game pace at this point (or the equivalent when you consider his ice time and PP role) and if you weren't expecting that then for some reason you were basically expecting him to be the worst #2 overall pick offensively in 15 years.

The same logic will be regurgitated in the Laf thread as well. I mean, if some of these fans are willing to wait until these dudes are 26-27 to start performing as their overall draft position dictated, then we'll be well into another rebuild by then. To me, it's becoming a waste. Can't totally blame it on the kids, because I think our system is equally shit, but the big question is, when do you really start worrying about performance? People want to crutch them with age, but the fact of the matter is, these are grown adults that aren't rookies anymore.

 

[mas0764]

Well the fact is the rebuild is contingent on these kids taking off and if it doesn’t we already know what a Zibanejad/Kreider/Panarin/Fox/Shesterkin core is going to get us: a trip home early every year. That’s the backbone of a good team not a great team.

If Kakko and Lafreniere are underachieving then you have to keep acquiring more talent till you get more difference makers or you’ll be stuck in the same cycle we have always been post Dark Ages. And all the Troubas and Kreider’s in the world won’t change that.

I still have hope for the kids but the fact is we jumped into contender mode before we should have and before we knew what we had with young elite talent. If Kakko and Kravstov are both gone or busts, and Laf is merely a gritty 60 point forward, we’re f***ed and we might as well start trading veterans again right now.

 

[will1066]

Who did we trade Laf to?

Computron says Laf is still a Ranger.

His center is Strome

 

[bleedblue94]

I think he’s been good. I’ve also seen a lot of people who’ve said he’s been the best player on the team in the playoffs when he hasn’t been anywhere close to that.

A lot of that is a hyperbolic positive response bc this fanbase has been left so disappointed by the rare top 10 picks we had and laf is doing the best of all of them. I personally think zib and Miller have been our best players consistently over the two rounds, Igor and Lindgren come up next followed by the likes of copp, trouba, laf, and fox. Also Fox has had his offensive moments but overall he's been brutal defensively and has been exposed numerous times on the rush defensively.

 

[bbny]

Well the fact is the rebuild is contingent on these kids taking off and if it doesn’t we already know what a Zibanejad/Kreider/Panarin/Fox/Shesterkin core is going to get us: a trip home early every year. That’s the backbone of a good team not a great team.

If Kakko and Lafreniere are underachieving then you have to keep acquiring more talent till you get more difference makers or you’ll be stuck in the same cycle we have always been post Dark Ages. And all the Troubas and Kreider’s in the world won’t change that.

I still have hope for the kids but the fact is we jumped into contender mode before we should have and before we knew what we had with young elite talent. If Kakko and Kravstov are both gone or busts, and Laf is merely a gritty 60 point forward, we’re f***ed and we might as well start trading veterans again right now.

No we absolutely don't. This is their first real attempt in the playoffs together, first season with a new coach, and they are 2 wins from the ECF. We have absolutely zero idea what future runs look like with this core and what these guys have learned together this season. We shouldn't sell this current core short based on one playoff stint. Also, Kakko in overwhelming likelihood will not be on a tier as any of those players listed either, aside from maybe the pre-50 goal version of Kreider being somewhat attainable. I'm not sure why anyone should assume the grass is greener in a few years after the current core has phased out.

 

[huerter]

Can someone do a breakdown of top draft picks who are mouthguard chewers vs non-mouthguard chewers. Thanks.

 

[effen]

I thought he'd pop a bit as the distance traveled got shorter and puck possession/strength could shine as he should have plenty of energy from missing half the year.

He's Just A Guy. Always looks to one man cycle deeper and deeper into the boards until he tunnels into the Vault at the Bellagio. No power moves, no shoulder lower, still far too easy to push off the puck for a guy who put all his eggs in the cycle basket.

Rarely if ever does anything that pops. Doesn't even bother faking aggression. Really disappointed. Does he even try for deflections? I can't recall even a single attempt. More Marcel Hossa than Marian Hossa.

 

[Chytilmania]

How about we all agree that he has had some unfortunate luck and circumstances his first 3 seasons, and let's hope he works hard this offseason to get faster while getting top 6 minutes next year. If Laf turns out to be a star or at least a 1st line winger and Kakko is just solid, that's fine. There will still be use for him. Unfortunately I think with his personality, throwing him into NYC at age 18 was not good for him. On paper it was the right thing to do. Very hard for scouts to understand a prospect's (for lack of a better phrase) mental capacity. But it's clear Laf has a better mental capacity as he has not let struggles snowball and he has stepped up this post season.

Regardless, next year is put up or shut up. If he's going to be banged up or can't hold a top 6 role then that's all we are getting from him.

 

[The New Russian Five]

Well here's the production of every other #2 overall forward since 2005 in their 3rd year after being drafted:

1. Svechnikov - 15 goals, 42 points, 55 games
2. Patrick: - 4 goals, 5 points, 9 games
3. Laine - 30 goals, 50 points, in 82 games
4. Eichel - 25 goals, 64 points, 67 games
5. Reinhart: 17 goals, 30 points, 47 games
6. Barkov: 28 goals, 59 points, 66 games
7. Landeskog: 26 goals, 65 points, 81 games
8. Seguin: 16 goals, 32 points, 48 games (this was the lockout year)
9. JVR: 15 goals, 35 points, 78 games (This was his rookie year...didn't play in the NHL his first two seasons)
10. J. Staal: 22 goals, 49 points, in 82 games
11. Ryan: Only played 23 games and it was his rookie year...31 goals, 57 points, 64 points in his first full year

Kakko: 7 goals, 18 points, 43 games

If you're preaching patience or not expecting a top six player in his third year your expectations are too low. Every single one of these guys with the exception of Patrick was scoring at a much higher level. And yes, I'm sure most of them got way more PP time but Kakko's 5v5 scoring rates have not been good either. I do think he's a good player right now though. His all around game is good. He's not a liability on the ice. But just purely in terms of offensive production based on the history of #2 overalls you should be expecting at least a 50pt/82 game pace at this point (or the equivalent when you consider his ice time and PP role) and if you weren't expecting that then for some reason you were basically expecting him to be the worst #2 overall pick offensively in 15 years.

I'd rather see what their even strength production is. Remove the power play points considering KK gets no PP time on this team.

 

[LokiDog]

I'd rather see what their even strength production is. Remove the power play points considering KK gets no PP time on this team.

He’s still last, or near it. I’ve done this breakdown before. There’s also reasons besides “good prospects never play for good teams so they get more opportunity” that Kakko doesn’t get those chances. He’s been given a chance to play with Panarin, the 5th highest producing NHL in the world over the past 4 years, to start every year of his career so far. When Svechnikov broke in the Canes top six was loaded. How did he earn his spot?

 

[mas0764]

No we absolutely don't. This is their first real attempt in the playoffs together, first season with a new coach, and they are 2 wins from the ECF. We have absolutely zero idea what future runs look like with this core and what these guys have learned together this season. We shouldn't sell this current core short based on one playoff stint. Also, Kakko in overwhelming likelihood will not be on a tier as any of those players listed either, aside from maybe the pre-50 goal version of Kreider being somewhat attainable. I'm not sure why anyone should assume the grass is greener in a few years after the current core has phased out.

You can continue to feign ignorance. That core isn’t winning us any more hardware than the last core did. Good team not great…. Unless more young elite talent is brought in. That was supposed to be Kravtsov, Kakko and Laf. If it’s not… no rings for us.

 

[GlasgowNewYorkRanger]

I say this with genuine sentiment in that I hope he proves me wrong, however, there are a lot of similarities pointing me towards him becoming our younger, drafted version of Rich Nash. And I do not mean the perennial All-Star version from Columbus. Ranger Nash, where we are somewhat disengenious in making excuses for a 8m star forward who plays solid defense and has an excellent two way game - all the while never living up to the real reason he was brought here in the first place.

I mean, we are now hearing that our #2 overall pick (who was billed primarily as a scorer) plays solid defense sometimes and is becoming a great two way player. Fantastic. We could just have picked up another one of them from someone's third line who went deep in the Playoffs, if that was all the reduced expectations were.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I'd rather see what their even strength production is. Remove the power play points considering KK gets no PP time on this team.

Talking about Rangers?

 

[bbny]

You can continue to feign ignorance. That core isn’t winning us any more hardware than the last core did. Good team not great…. Unless more young elite talent is brought in. That was supposed to be Kravtsov, Kakko and Laf. If it’s not… no rings for us.

You are operating off of hope, nothing based in reality. You might as well stop watching or switch teams because there’s nothing to suggest that next “core” will amount to anything close to what we already have. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side my friend.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

They don’t need a new core, they really need to augment what is already here.

That may mean moving Kakko for another body. It 100% means moving on from certain guys (Strome, I wish Panarin but that isn’t happening.)

 

[OthmannOut]

Well here's the production of every other #2 overall forward since 2005 in their 3rd year after being drafted:

1. Svechnikov - 15 goals, 42 points, 55 games
2. Patrick: - 4 goals, 5 points, 9 games
3. Laine - 30 goals, 50 points, in 82 games
4. Eichel - 25 goals, 64 points, 67 games
5. Reinhart: 17 goals, 30 points, 47 games
6. Barkov: 28 goals, 59 points, 66 games
7. Landeskog: 26 goals, 65 points, 81 games
8. Seguin: 16 goals, 32 points, 48 games (this was the lockout year)
9. JVR: 15 goals, 35 points, 78 games (This was his rookie year...didn't play in the NHL his first two seasons)
10. J. Staal: 22 goals, 49 points, in 82 games
11. Ryan: Only played 23 games and it was his rookie year...31 goals, 57 points, 64 points in his first full year

Kakko: 7 goals, 18 points, 43 games

If you're preaching patience or not expecting a top six player in his third year your expectations are too low. Every single one of these guys with the exception of Patrick was scoring at a much higher level. And yes, I'm sure most of them got way more PP time but Kakko's 5v5 scoring rates have not been good either. I do think he's a good player right now though. His all around game is good. He's not a liability on the ice. But just purely in terms of offensive production based on the history of #2 overalls you should be expecting at least a 50pt/82 game pace at this point (or the equivalent when you consider his ice time and PP role) and if you weren't expecting that then for some reason you were basically expecting him to be the worst #2 overall pick offensively in 15 years.

yeah and how many of those players were blessed with top line minutes and pp time.

 

[SA16]

yeah and how many of those players were blessed with top line minutes and pp time.

I don't know. Why don't you do the research and tell me since you seem interested in it? Only takes a few minutes.

I assume when you find a few players who did not get top line time, but still produced, the next question will be "How many of those players had to start their career in a shortened season due to a pandemic?"

And then we'll go on and on with the excuses.

 

[LokiDog]

yeah and how many of those players were blessed with top line minutes and pp time.

It’s been beaten to death. Not all of them were and the narrative that our guys haven’t been given those opportunities is false. Kakko has started every year of his career with an opportunity to play second line minutes next to Panarin, who is the 5th leading scorer in the world over the past 4 years. He is “gifted” this opportunity every year and squanders it every year. Other players take it and run with it. Then they get further opportunities because of it. Also guys like Seguin broke in on a Stanley Cup winner who had plenty of depth. Svechnikov broke in on a deep Carolina playoff team. How did they become stars within 3 years? It’s not as if Kakko starts every year on the 4th line. He simply fails to impress the coaches every season.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

There's no point going round in circles. I'm still a believer in KK breaking out if he can stay healthy. I guess time will tell.

I can agree that he's been underwhelming and whatever the mitigating circumstances (injury, covid, etc.) don't entirely excuse him. But I have confidence that at least 2/3 in Chytil, Laf & KK will become star players in the league.

Honestly, I'd rather live by the sword than die by it like Ott did by moving on from Zibby (who was older than all of them when he was traded to us, albeit with more success). It would be horrible to watch these guys go elsewhere in a trade only to turn it on there because the return will very likely be underwhelming.

 

[Doctyl]

I'd rather see what their even strength production is. Remove the power play points considering KK gets no PP time on this team.

Total 5v5 points/60

1. Svechnikov - 1.69
2. Patrick: - 0.64
3. Laine - 1.35
4. Eichel - 2.04
5. Reinhart - 1.44
6. Barkov - 2.31
7. Landeskog - 2.36
8. Seguin - 1.97
9. JVR - 1.94
10. J. Staal - 1.94
11. Ryan - 1.92

Kakko - 1.58

I would rather Kakko be a bust and just be a better Jesper Fast on our 3rd line than trade him to a team that knows how to develop prospects and watch him become Mark Stone. I don't want to be the Senators looking at Zibanejad

 

[LokiDog]

Total 5v5 points/60

1. Svechnikov - 1.69
2. Patrick: - 0.64
3. Laine - 1.35
4. Eichel - 2.04
5. Reinhart - 1.44
6. Barkov - 2.31
7. Landeskog - 2.36
8. Seguin - 1.97
9. JVR - 1.94
10. J. Staal - 1.94
11. Ryan - 1.92

Kakko - 1.58

I would rather Kakko be a bust and just be a better Jesper Fast on our 3rd line than trade him to a team that knows how to develop prospects and watch him become Mark Stone. I don't want to be the Senators looking at Zibanejad

That’s fine with me. I just want people to be realistic about what he is. If you still think there’s a point per game future there, you’re more optimistic than I. I think he can be a better Fast/Lehkonen/etc. who may have a few 50 point seasons. Let’s stop talking about how he NEEDS to be in the top six next year or has been our best forward. He NEEDS to show up faster and more assertive next year and earn top six time.