Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko: Part III

[SA16]

His conclusion doesn't make sense as he is using data gained after game 9 to say he shouldn't have played after game 9. His results were poor before then but almost everyone on the team had awful results before then.

 

[lilphildub]

I think anyone who watched the season saw he struggled & was a disappointment. We had high expectations for him to fit in & look like an NHL player right away. It didn't happen & agree he should've had some time in the A to adjust. But he had some positive moments in the playoffs & was one of few players who showed some energy. I'm sure he'll improve this season. Just may take some time to be the 2nd overall pick we expected

 

[Machinehead]

Always said he looked like me at the end of like a 12min shift in pickup hockey when there is only like one sub between teams because Jimmy was too f***ing lazy to get his shit together and show up. Leaning over almost tripping over your own skates just to have the sub say "you stay on" because he just jumped off and can't breath. I felt for Kakko....f*** Jimmy.

f***ing Vesey, am I right?

 

[MysticLeviathan]

The whole international ice vs. NA ice thing is incredibly frustrating. What you see on the larger ice surface can’t be directly compared to what’s possible on the NA ice. Some players end up adjusting and “getting it”, but many others don’t. It takes time to get used to the smaller ice surface, and Kakko was clearly very far from being ready. While he’s physically mature and capable of handling NHL caliber competition, he was far from able to process the NA game. Smaller ice means less time to make decisions. Combine that with better competition and it’s an even greater hurdle to overcome. Kakko wasn’t ready, that is a fact. The concern becomes if he’ll end up being a bust. Can he overcome? Will he show significant improvement? Or is he just a player who is unable to adapt to the NHL and the NA game as a whole? Drafting Laf lessens how much Kakko’s terrible season hurt, but it’s unquestionably a concern. I really hope we see major improvement, because he was truly that bad last season.

 

[mrmovies779]

The whole international ice vs. NA ice thing is incredibly frustrating. What you see on the larger ice surface can’t be directly compared to what’s possible on the NA ice. Some players end up adjusting and “getting it”, but many others don’t. It takes time to get used to the smaller ice surface, and Kakko was clearly very far from being ready. While he’s physically mature and capable of handling NHL caliber competition, he was far from able to process the NA game. Smaller ice means less time to make decisions. Combine that with better competition and it’s an even greater hurdle to overcome. Kakko wasn’t ready, that is a fact. The concern becomes if he’ll end up being a bust. Can he overcome? Will he show significant improvement? Or is he just a player who is unable to adapt to the NHL and the NA game as a whole? Drafting Laf lessens how much Kakko’s terrible season hurt, but it’s unquestionably a concern. I really hope we see major improvement, because he was truly that bad last season.

Its like you didnt watch any of the series verses the Canes where he was notably our best foward on ice in that shit storm of a series.Amazing that with a little time off to recharge the battery,he ended up playing his best hockey of the year.I dont think adapting will be much of a problem going foward.

 

[Levitate]

The whole international ice vs. NA ice thing is incredibly frustrating. What you see on the larger ice surface can’t be directly compared to what’s possible on the NA ice. Some players end up adjusting and “getting it”, but many others don’t. It takes time to get used to the smaller ice surface, and Kakko was clearly very far from being ready. While he’s physically mature and capable of handling NHL caliber competition, he was far from able to process the NA game. Smaller ice means less time to make decisions. Combine that with better competition and it’s an even greater hurdle to overcome. Kakko wasn’t ready, that is a fact. The concern becomes if he’ll end up being a bust. Can he overcome? Will he show significant improvement? Or is he just a player who is unable to adapt to the NHL and the NA game as a whole? Drafting Laf lessens how much Kakko’s terrible season hurt, but it’s unquestionably a concern. I really hope we see major improvement, because he was truly that bad last season.

It's a concern but I feel like I saw flashes of what he could do and how he could translate it to the NHL. He looked more like a kid who wasn't ready for the NHL on a consistent basis, not a player who has no NHL future.

It's OK to have some concerns but I think we always have to remember we were watching a 18 year old kid coming off a huge amount of hockey right before that season, not a 20+ year old with some years of seasoning under his belt coming in prepared to challenge the NHL. There's plenty of time and space for him to improve and show his draft ranking wasn't incorrect.

Its like you didnt watch any of the series verses the Canes where he was notably our best foward on ice in that shit storm of a series.Amazing that with a little time off to recharge the battery,he ended up playing his best hockey of the year.I dont think adapting will be much of a problem going foward.

And yeah he did look quite a bit better, his analytics were better, etc. He didn't score but I think he was showing the kind of improvement in his overall game that we'd want/expect to see as he grows more comfortable with the NHL. He was more aggressive and decisive, he was shooting the puck more, he was using his strengths and didn't look lost out there.

In my mind the bottom line is that he really just was not ready for the NHL but they kinda shoe-horned him in anyways. Not being ready for the NHL is an OK thing for an 18 year old, even the #2 overall, and especially coming from a league with a very different style of play.
I want to see improvement this year for sure, but I'm not overly concerned about last year at this point.

 

[Irishguy42]

JFresh isn't wrong, for the most part, tbh

One of the fairer analyses out there.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

JFresh isn't wrong, for the most part, tbh

One of the fairer analyses out there.

He said Kakko has the worst rookie season in the last 13 years. Yeaa, i could name 100s of rookies who had worse seasons. He even said he was horrible in the playoffs when everyone here pretty much agreed he was one of the better players. Very fair indeed

That's the problem with thinking those stupid "advanced" stats mean anything more that the dog who took a dump in front of my house the other day.

 

[Doctyl]

He said Kakko has the worst rookie season in the last 13 years. Yeaa, i could name 100s of rookies who had worse seasons. He even said he was horrible in the playoffs when everyone here pretty much agreed he was one of the better players. Very fair indeed

That's the problem with thinking those stupid "advanced" stats mean anything more that the dog who took a dump in front of my house the other day.

He said he was better in the playoffs and included video from each game.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

He said he was better in the playoffs and included video from each game.

"I was disappointed overall by why I saw from Kakko in the bubble." (Guess he didn't have time to proof read his article's grammar before putting it out).

Well I guess that's something since he thought Kakko was better than being the worst rookie to ever play in 13 years.

 

[Richard Banger]

Breaking Down Kaapo Kakko's Historically Bad Rookie Season

A fairly brutal breakdown of his season. Not sure if I agree with tunnel-vision.

Damn that’s a lazy written article. This dude a professional? If so he should be embarrassed.

 

[LokiDog]

KK did have a really disappointing rookie season. Hughes had the worst rookie season for a #1 in nearly two decades. Kakko was right there with him. It isn’t a reason to panic and we should still have high hopes and expectations for him, but it’s also okay to call a spade a spade. He really didn’t have a good rookie year and there’s very minimal silver lining to that, aside from his upside is still huge and he’s still super young.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

If your only counter-argument to a player’s having one of the worst seasons from an advanced stats perspective since we started tracking advanced stats is “he’s only 18”, it’s hard to be confident. Yes, he could turn into a really good player, but you’re still asking a lot. Yes, he had a better play-in, but he still wasn’t very good. Being one of the better players on a team who performed atrociously doesn’t bring a lot of confidence.

We still have to give him another season, but if he doesn’t show significant improvement, we should be extremely concerned. We shouldn’t have a long leash with him. Send him down to the AHL if necessary. It would be incredibly unfortunate if Kakko turns out to be a bust.

 

[aufheben]

It’s way too early for the ‘B’ word.

It’s not like everyone who wasn’t ready for the NHL at 18 never became good, lol. Most 18-year-olds would have “historically” bad seasons if they played in the NHL.

 

[aufheben]

Did people gloss over this part?

“The main reason Kakko’s numbers are bad is that his regular line with Brett Howden and Filip Chytil was the worst trio in the league.”

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Breaking Down Kaapo Kakko's Historically Bad Rookie Season

A fairly brutal breakdown of his season. Not sure if I agree with tunnel-vision.

who's this f***in nerd

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

If your only counter-argument to a player’s having one of the worst seasons from an advanced stats perspective since we started tracking advanced stats is “he’s only 18”, it’s hard to be confident. Yes, he could turn into a really good player, but you’re still asking a lot. Yes, he had a better play-in, but he still wasn’t very good. Being one of the better players on a team who performed atrociously doesn’t bring a lot of confidence.

We still have to give him another season, but if he doesn’t show significant improvement, we should be extremely concerned. We shouldn’t have a long leash with him. Send him down to the AHL if necessary. It would be incredibly unfortunate if Kakko turns out to be a bust.

If Kakko's rookie regular season (not playoffs) continues in like his 3rd/4th season, then it's probably time to be concerned. As of now, FAR too early to label him a bust.

Also, to say he wasn't very good in the play-in is false. He was our best forward dude, lol.

 

[Barnaby]

Did people gloss over this part?

“The main reason Kakko’s numbers are bad is that his regular line with Brett Howden and Filip Chytil was the worst trio in the league.”

Im not sold on Chytil at center and Howden is a 4th liner on a good day, but I can’t give Kakko a pass. Put him with Panarin and I’m sure he gets more points, but it doesn’t change the fact that he looked woefully unprepared for the majority of the season.

I expect him to improve, but I’m not going to try and say he played better than he did.

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

Writing a negative article on Kakko is beyond stupid. If you watched his season, he was getting knocked down and off the puck constantly the first 50 games. Then the last 15 games he was dragging defenseman around, no longer getting knocked off the puck. You could clearly see what the strength program of a professional NHL team did for him. Much of his game is going to be about hanging onto the puck, driving to the net and playing a power game. Not easy to do for almost all guys like that at 18. Thus why I thought Lundkvist should have been over here in a strength program instead of wasting his time in a league he easily handled last year.

 

[IronBloodedLion]

Obviously he didn’t live up to the insanely hype going into the season, but I thought Kakko really started coming on strong towards the end of the season, and obviously into the bubble. I think he just wasn’t as NHL ready as everybody thought.

I do expect a good progression next season. He’s gonna be a good one.

 

[WojtekWolski86]

Obviously he didn’t live up to the insanely hype going into the season, but I thought Kakko really started coming on strong towards the end of the season, and obviously into the bubble. I think he just wasn’t as NHL ready as everybody thought.

I do expect a good progression next season. He’s gonna be a good one.

The problem is people saw Kaako dominate a tournament with NHL players and Liga with men and immediately thought that translated into 60 plus points because guys like Matthew's, McDavid, etc shot out of the gate like a cannon.

The first mental hurdle he never really recovered from was going from "the guy" to a 3rd liner and not producing. Feeling like not living up to the hype others and yourself have put in your brain. Guys like MacKinnon had to get professional help off the ice that made an out of world impact on the ice. Some guys never figure it out. Kaako has shown signs and flashes, noe he just needs to keep it togethern

Everyone failed to consider all the games and travel in one year, being able to process the game on a smaller rink, culture shock of moving to a big city without much insulation at 18.

 

[LokiDog]

I don’t think the problem is people put unrealistic expectations on Kakko at all. Yes, having a bad year in the NHL at 18 isn’t a red flag and it’s correct that MOST 18 year olds would have a horrible year. But relative to draft position and historically guys in the top 3 being ready, he was bad relative to OTHER 18 year olds of the same pedigree. We can’t compare 18 year old Kakko to 18 year old Dubinsky. We have to compare 18 year old Kakko to other 18 year old #2 picks:

Kakko (2019) 23pts 66 games
Svechnikov (2018) 37pts 82 games
Nolan Patrick (2017) 30pts 70 games*
Laine (2016) 64pts 73 games
Eichel (2015) 56pts 81 games
Reinhart (2014) 9 games sent down
Barkov (2013) 24pts 54 games
Ryan Murray (2012) 21pts 66 games Dman
Landeskog (2011) 52pts 82 games
Seguin (2010) 22pts 74 games
Hedman (2009) 20pts 74 games Dman
Doughty (2008) 27pts 81 games Dman

So you’ve got a few two-way Dmen who all broke 20 points, Murray with 21 in 66 which is a good pace, Hedman with 20 in 74 and Doughty with 27.

You’ve got Landeskog, Eichel, Laine with big 50+ point seasons.

You’ve got Reinhart getting 9 games and being sent down with, I believe, 1 point.

You’ve got Seguin with just 22 points in 74, but the Bruins were a deep, veteran team that won the Cup that year so maybe opportunity plays in, but 22 is pretty bland. You’ve got Barkov with just 24 but in only 54 games so a 36pt pace. You’ve got Svechnikov with 37 and Nolan Patrick with 30 in 70, and I’m not sure if his migraine/concussion issues played any factor in his rookie year or not.

But in the 11 drafts prior to Kakko you’ve got 3 20+ point D at 18 years old, 3 huge 50-60pt forwards at 18 years old, one guy sent down, two or three guys in the 30-37 range, if you include Barkov due to 36pt pace (and Patrick had a 35pt pace) and Seguin with 22 but maybe due to role. In this context, 23pts in 66 games for Kakko (29pt pace) is still one of the worst rookie seasons for a #2 in the last 12 years. Reinhart was much worse and sent down. Seguin you can argue was statistically worse but won a Cup and had a strong playoffs. Barkov had one more point in 12 less games. Patrick had 7 more points in 4 more games and there’s no knowing how he’d be doing now if he wasn’t plagued by health problems. All of the D had better seasons given their position. Only Seguin’s 22 points (25pt pace) and Reinhart being sent down can objectively be called worse rookie years for a #2 and Seguin’s is questionable given the team he was on.

Expectations for Kakko, I don’t think were skewed because he played against men, they were based off of an average of the last decade worth of #2 picks. Most come in and have an impact. I think if he’d had a Barkov/Svechnikov level season everyone would be satisfied.

The good news is that, actually, everyone of these guys is a good player. Obviously we don’t want him to be Reinhart, but Reinhart is still a top six player. Patrick has health problems so he’s not really part of the discussion. Too much lost development and difficulties to say he’s a “bust” but his career has been derailed. Murray is in a similar boat; he’s a damn good defenseman but his career has been ravaged by injuries. Seguin’s measly 22 points in 74 games obviously didn’t seal his doom and he became a huge offensive star. Barkov’s 24 in 54 (36 pace) blossomed into big numbers and a fantastic all around game. Svech is well on his way to becoming a beast.

There’s no reason to worry about Kakko based off of his 18 year old season. But it’s okay to say he failed his expectations and had one of the worst rookie years of any #2 in the past 12 years. He did. But even the guys who had the worst years Seguin, Barkov, Reinhart have all become solid players. Still, it’s not unreasonable to say that Kakko had a bad freshman year relative to other 18 year old #2 picks in the past decade.

 

[aufheben]

If Kakko's rookie regular season (not playoffs) continues in like his 3rd/4th season, then it's probably time to be concerned. As of now, FAR too early to label him a bust.

Also, to say he wasn't very good in the play-in is false. He was our best forward dude, lol.

Im not sold on Chytil at center and Howden is a 4th liner on a good day, but I can’t give Kakko a pass. Put him with Panarin and I’m sure he gets more points, but it doesn’t change the fact that he looked woefully unprepared for the majority of the season.

I expect him to improve, but I’m not going to try and say he played better than he did.

Not a pass but his stats might have been simply bad rather than morbid.

 

[Levitate]

I think everyone knows Kakko needs to be better and everyone agrees he didn't look ready for the NHL. That said I still believe you really really really cannot make long term predictions about his NHL future based off of last season. A much bigger thing will be to see how he adjusts and how he does next season. He does need to process the NHL game faster. That was a huge problem IMO, he just went from playing in a lesser skilled league that allowed more space to the NHL and he had no idea how to be aggressive and how to handle the speed of which players closed on him. He started to get that a bit better and any of this "tunnel vision" will be alleviated by him learning how to deal with the pace of things better. I also think it's not so much that he doesn't "see" linemates I think it's that he's used to buying himself a lot of time with his puck skills to wait for things to happen or to find things so instead of trying to move the puck quickly he was trying to buy time but then loses the puck.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Kakko's problem is that he couldn't skate and he wasn't conditioned.

If he can improve that that will make a world of difference.

He's got the skills.