Confirmed with Link: Kaapo Kahkonen 1 x $1M Winnipeg reclaimed

voyageur

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Jul 10, 2011
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Does this mean that DD sticks with the Moose?
He's the big winner in this transaction.

Regardless of who was getting sent down Milic was in the position of 1A goalie with the Moose.

Di Vincentiis was likely ECHL bound, gets his debut in the A.

That's a young tandem in net, hopefully push each other to improve.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Your case is pretty much that you think that Kahkonen's more talented and a year younger. You haven't really attempted to expand beyond that, other than to ask me to ignore Comrie's time in Winnipeg in 2021-22, and think more about Kahkonen's time with Minnesota; as though it just happened.

I've consistently stated that Comrie was bad in Buffalo. Trying to understand if it was more than just his being bad in net, if other factors could have contributed with his bad play, might be a wasted exercise, but it doesn't hurt to look either. To me, a lot of work is writing 50K worth of posts with a high percentage of it being engaged in circular arguments. :naughty:

I'm hoping that Comrie builds on where he was three years ago. And good luck to Kahkonen in Colorado. Hopefully it's a great fit for both players, save for when we play them this year.

I'm not ignoring Comrie in 22 in Wpg. But that is the ONLY season he wasn't terrible in the NHL. It wasn't just the last 2 years in Buffalo. Kahkonen had more than one good season. His bad seasons were all in San Jose with the really bad Sharks in front of him. That's the whole story.

Comrie can't build on where he was 3 years ago because it isn't 3 years ago. I'm hoping that his success 3 years ago was a result of Helle's mentoring and they can do it again though. We'll see.
 
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BarnabyJones PI

I'd kindly settle for a tall glass of milk.
I'm not ignoring Comrie in 22 in Wpg. But that is the ONLY season he wasn't terrible in the NHL. It wasn't just the last 2 years in Buffalo. Kahkonen had more than one good season. His bad seasons were all in San Jose with the really bad Sharks in front of him. That's the whole story.

Comrie can't build on where he was 3 years ago because it isn't 3 years ago. I'm hoping that his success 3 years ago was a result of Helle's mentoring and they can do it again though. We'll see.

Both player's last "good" season was in 2021-22.

Beyond that, Kaapo was clearly better than Comrie prior to that (I agree), but we're talking about 29 games spread over 2 season with a team that was pretty good. It's not nothing, but again, it's also 4 seasons ago.

If you're not really counting Kaapo's time in SJ, then why are we only counting Comrie's time in Buffalo? Comrie's sample size there is also considerably smaller, you can also recognize that. Perhaps he needed more games to "normalize" to some degree.

Why no consideration for how Comrie was deployed coming back from injury last year, or after he was called up from the minors last year?

Listening to Comrie's interview from July, he talked about his dealing with two injuries in Buffalo, and now being in the best shape of his life.
 
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voyageur

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I think Helly's opinion on who he prefers as his backup likely carries a lot of weight.
There's more to performance than just what you see on the ice. I think Comrie just fits this team, he's been around it for awhile. So practice habits, team dinners, family, dogs, fishing, all that kind of stuff is relevant to team chemistry.

Honestly if you compare preseason games 1 and 2 Kahkonen and Comrie, Comrie was just as solid in net. If it's a knockoff, you definitely choose chemistry in the locker room, as part of the team building process.

Flaherty seems to get Comrie to a higher level than any other coach, so let's hope being back in Winnipeg works for Eric.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Both player's last "good" season was in 2021-22.

Beyond that, Kaapo was clearly better than Comrie prior to that (I agree), but we're talking about 29 games spread over 2 season with a team that was pretty good. It's not nothing, but again, it's also 4 seasons ago.

If you're not really counting Kaapo's time in SJ, then why are we only counting Comrie's time in Buffalo? Comrie's sample size there is also considerably smaller, you can also recognize that. Perhaps he needed more games to "normalize" to some degree.

Why no consideration for how Comrie was deployed coming back from injury last year, or after he was called up from the minors last year?

Listening to Comrie's interview from July, he talked about his dealing with two injuries in Buffalo, and now being in the best shape of his life.

I AM counting Kaapo's time in SJ. I am not counting ONLY his time in SJ. You appear to be counting ONLY Comrie's 22 season in Wpg. I'm counting all of the time for both of them. I'm not eliminating 1 especially bad game for either. I'm not looking only at their best or worse seasons.

You are looking at every extenuating circumstance or excuse for Comrie. Have you done the same for Kaapo?

If you want to discount 4 seasons ago then lets discount 3 seasons ago too. How about we look only at last season? At least there is an argument for that, their most recent bodies of work.
Comrie - 10 gms, .874
Kahkonen - 31 gms, .895 plus 6 gms, .923
Not even close.

I think the Jets chose the wrong one, based on their resumes. I will hope to be proven wrong until I'm not.
 

BarnabyJones PI

I'd kindly settle for a tall glass of milk.
I AM counting Kaapo's time in SJ. I am not counting ONLY his time in SJ. You appear to be counting ONLY Comrie's 22 season in Wpg. I'm counting all of the time for both of them. I'm not eliminating 1 especially bad game for either. I'm not looking only at their best or worse seasons.

You are looking at every extenuating circumstance or excuse for Comrie. Have you done the same for Kaapo?

If you want to discount 4 seasons ago then lets discount 3 seasons ago too. How about we look only at last season? At least there is an argument for that, their most recent bodies of work.
Comrie - 10 gms, .874
Kahkonen - 31 gms, .895 plus 6 gms, .923
Not even close.

I think the Jets chose the wrong one, based on their resumes. I will hope to be proven wrong until I'm not.

I've highlighted (at length) Comrie's time in Buffalo.

Mortimer, I like you. I am concerned that you're going to injure yourself moving the goalposts as frequently as you do.
 
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Mortimer Snerd

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I've highlighted (at length) Comrie's time in Buffalo.

Mortimer, I like you. I am concerned that you're going to injure yourself moving the goalposts as frequently as you do.

Come on Dale. The only goalposts I have had in this discussion has been all of their careers. I suggested using last year only as a response to your trying to break their careers down into chunks. (I don't accuse you of moving goalposts here, but you do seem to be trying to view the data in any way that will favour Comrie) If we are going to look at chunks of their careers then their most recent chunks make sense. If you don't like that one I have no problem reverting to ALL of their respective careers.
 
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BarnabyJones PI

I'd kindly settle for a tall glass of milk.
Come on Dale. The only goalposts I have had in this discussion has been all of their careers. I suggested using last year only as a response to your trying to break their careers down into chunks. (I don't accuse you of moving goalposts here, but you do seem to be trying to view the data in any way that will favour Comrie) If we are going to look at chunks of their careers then their most recent chunks make sense. If you don't like that one I have no problem reverting to ALL of their respective careers.

I can see where you're coming from, but that's not accurate.

I've been consistently saying/prefacing that Comrie sucked in Buffalo. I'm not hiding this. I did isolate how he did in games where he faced 30 or more shots, and it was a fruitless exercise, and I said so after the fact.

More accurately though, my intention was looking for reasons as to why he sucked in Buffalo. Just surmising that he's a bad goalie, is too easy. I'm looking through the lense of why he wasn't as bad as we might think, rather than the lense of here's why he was actually good in Buffalo. And more importantly, I'm trying to understand why the Jets went with him over KK. My originally chiming into this thread, was to say (and outline) that I think it's the right decision. It's an unpopular opinion, fine, but I like what they're doing.

Now, if I'm a GM with another team, I'm likely not interested in Comrie. There are other goalies out there that I would rather go with. But 31 other teams don't have Hellebuyck either. Comrie had success in his last stop with the Jets, and it's not that long ago. I think you should go with the right fit. Flaherty got to see KK up close, and might have recognized that he's not exactly the right guy as a backup to Hellebuyck. Probably a better starting goalie than Comrie, but they're not looking for a starter.

Maybe KK sees himself as a guy who needs to play 30 games a year. Maybe KK thought that Hellebuyck's work load will decrease this year, and perhaps Hellebuyck isn't comfortable having a guy backing him up, who wants to play more than 20 games a year. I also think that Hellebuyck likes things like his daily ritual and continuity, and wants everything set up a specific way. Maybe Comrie is a better caddy than KK, and that's precisely what he's looking for. A goalie who embraces being just a backup, is there to give him honest advice (intermissions), and is easy to get along with.

Also, I would think that Flaherty recognizes the problems that Comrie had in Buffalo, and knows how to fix them. Perhaps KK has a lot of bad habits developed, since he left Minnesota, that are harder to fix. I'm purely speculating of course. Maybe he's not the greatest communicator.

All of this still boils down to Chevy, Flaherty (input), Hellebuyck (input) making a decision that's best for them and the team. If KK wowed them in camp, maybe he's still here.

If we are going to look at chunks of their careers then their most recent chunks make sense. If you don't like that one I have no problem reverting to ALL of their respective careers.

I used the last 3 years, mostly because most of the analytical-types - which I think you're one of and I don't mean that as an insult - like to use 3-year blocks as opposed to 4, or 5, or career. So, that's why I've been using 3. Does Comrie's only good year slip into that 3? Yes. But, the same can be said with KK 3 years ago, that being his last good year.

You want to be emphasizing KK's work prior to 2021-22, fine, then he clearly wins that race. Comrie's work before then is for the birds.

I'm also pretty sure that when talking about Ehlers last season, in various threads, you talked about how 37 games isn't that much of a sample size; or only using a sample size of 5 games in a best of 7 series (which I agree with). But then you're talking about KK's time in NJ, it's all of 6 games. And neither goalie has that long of a track record.

I know I disagree with you quite a bit, but I generally appreciate your style of debate.
 
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Mortimer Snerd

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I can see where you're coming from, but that's not accurate.

I've been consistently saying/prefacing that Comrie sucked in Buffalo. I'm not hiding this. I did isolate how he did in games where he faced 30 or more shots, and it was a fruitless exercise, and I said so after the fact.

More accurately though, my intention was looking for reasons as to why he sucked in Buffalo. Just surmising that he's a bad goalie, is too easy. I'm looking through the lense of why he wasn't as bad as we might think, rather than the lense of here's why he was actually good in Buffalo. And more importantly, I'm trying to understand why the Jets went with him over KK. My originally chiming into this thread, was to say (and outline) that I think it's the right decision. It's an unpopular opinion, fine, but I like what they're doing.

Now, if I'm a GM with another team, I'm likely not interested in Comrie. There are other goalies out there that I would rather go with. But 31 other teams don't have Hellebuyck either. Comrie had success in his last stop with the Jets, and it's not that long ago. I think you should go with the right fit. Flaherty got to see KK up close, and might have recognized that he's not exactly the right guy as a backup to Hellebuyck. Probably a better starting goalie than Comrie, but they're not looking for a starter.

Maybe KK sees himself as a guy who needs to play 30 games a year. Maybe KK thought that Hellebuyck's work load will decrease this year, and perhaps Hellebuyck isn't comfortable having a guy backing him up, who wants to play more than 20 games a year. I also think that Hellebuyck likes things like his daily ritual and continuity, and wants everything set up a specific way. Maybe Comrie is a better caddy than KK, and that's precisely what he's looking for. A goalie who embraces being just a backup, is there to give him honest advice (intermissions), and is easy to get along with.

Also, I would think that Flaherty recognizes the problems that Comrie had in Buffalo, and knows how to fix them. Perhaps KK has a lot of bad habits developed, since he left Minnesota, that are harder to fix. I'm purely speculating of course. Maybe he's not the greatest communicator.

All of this still boils down to Chevy, Flaherty (input), Hellebuyck (input) making a decision that's best for them and the team. If KK wowed them in camp, maybe he's still here.



I used the last 3 years, mostly because most of the analytical-types - which I think you're one of and I don't mean that as an insult - like to use 3-year blocks as opposed to 4, or 5, or career. So, that's why I've been using 3. Does Comrie's only good year slip into that 3? Yes. But, the same can be said with KK 3 years ago, that being his last good year.

You want to be emphasizing KK's work prior to 2021-22, fine, then he clearly wins that race. Comrie's work before then is for the birds.

I'm also pretty sure that when talking about Ehlers last season, in various threads, you talked about how 37 games isn't that much of a sample size; or only using a sample size of 5 games in a best of 7 series (which I agree with). But then you're talking about KK's time in NJ, it's all of 6 games. And neither goalie has that long of a track record.

I know I disagree with you quite a bit, but I generally appreciate your style of debate.

I think we are about done here. We don't need to agree. Comrie is our guy and that's the end of it.

But I will give you my answer to your question of why he sucked in Buffalo. It is why he sucked everywhere else too, except for that 1 year in Wpg. He sucks. :laugh:
OK, a little facetious there. Sorry.

What I really think is that you are asking the wrong question. Try asking why he did not suck that one season. My answer is that in addition to Flaherty's coaching, Helle was mentoring him. And it was successful. Maybe they can recapture that. Of course I don't know that for certain. But I think I remember that story from that time. So, we will see what happens. Maybe Helle has a post playing career as a goalie whisperer.
 

BarnabyJones PI

I'd kindly settle for a tall glass of milk.
I think we are about done here. We don't need to agree. Comrie is our guy and that's the end of it.

But I will give you my answer to your question of why he sucked in Buffalo. It is why he sucked everywhere else too, except for that 1 year in Wpg. He sucks. :laugh:
OK, a little facetious there. Sorry.

What I really think is that you are asking the wrong question. Try asking why he did not suck that one season. My answer is that in addition to Flaherty's coaching, Helle was mentoring him. And it was successful. Maybe they can recapture that. Of course I don't know that for certain. But I think I remember that story from that time. So, we will see what happens. Maybe Helle has a post playing career as a goalie whisperer.

Maybe it's as simple as Comrie keeps sending Matt Prefontaine his favorite pizza, and in return he beefs up his analytics. I dunno. So many things can be happening. :)
 
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Brodeur

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As I said you can find one of these if you require one later.

As a Devils fan, sometimes finding a goalie in the middle of the season is easier said than done. Teams know you're in a tough spot and most aren't exactly eager to send you life preservers; Devils had to settle for Jon Gillies to finish out the stretch. Teams who have their veteran #3 insurance goalie aren't too fast to trade them in case they end up having injuries.

Ballpark goalie depth charts:

ANA: Gibson - Dostal - Reimer (just waived) - Clang - Dansk - Suchanek (LTIR) - Buteyets
CGY: Wolf - Vladar - Cooley - Ignatjew
EDM: Skinner - Pickard - Delia - Rodrigue - Ungar
LAK: Kuemper - Rittich - Copley - Portillo
SEA: Grubauer - Daccord - Stezka - Kokko - Ostman
SJS: Blackwood - Vanecek - Askarov - Romanov
VAN: Demko (LTIR) - Lankinen - Silovs - Patera - Tolopilo
VGK: Hill - Samsonov - Schmid - Lindbom - Vikman

ARZ: Ingram - Vejmelka - Villalta - Stauber - Thornton
CHI: Mrazek - Brossoit - Soderblom - Commesso
COL: Georgiev - Annunen - Mandolese - Miner
DAL: Oettinger - DeSmith - Hellberg - Poirier - Kraws
MIN: Gustavsson - Fleury - Wallstedt - Grosenick - Hlavaj
NSH: Saros - Wedgewood - Chrona - Murray
STL: Binnington - Hofer - Zherenko - Ellis - Cranley
WPG: Hellebucyk - Comrie - Kahkonen - Milic - DiVincentis

BOS: Swayman - Korpisalo - Bussi - DiPietro
BUF: Luukkonen - Levi - Sandstrom
DET: Talbot - Lyon - Husso - Cossa - Campbell (LTIR) - Gylander - Alexander
FLO: Bobrovsky - Knight - Driedger - Guzda - Black
MON: Montembeault - Primeau - Dobes - Hughes
OTT: Ullmark - Forsberg - Sogaard - Merilainen -
TBL: Vasilevskiy - Johansson - Tompkins - Alnefelt
TOR: Woll - Stolarz - Murray - Hildeby - Peksa - Akhtiamov

CAR: Andersen - Kochetkov - Martin - Perets
CLB: Merzlikins - Tarasov - Greaves - Sawchenko - Lalonde
NJD: Markstrom - Allen - Daws - Poulter - Brennan
NYI: Sorokin - Varlamov - Skarek - Hogberg - Tikkanen - Lennox
NYR: Shesterkin - Quick - Domingue - Lindbom - Garand - Boyko
PHI: Fedotov - Ersson - Petersen - Kolosov
PIT: Jarry - Nedeljkovic - Larsson - Blomqvist - Murashev - Gauthier
WSH: Lindgren - Thompson - Shepard - Stevenson - Gibson - Bjorklund

There's not many palatable options. I understand claiming Kahkonen now versus waiting to see if Chicago waives Arvid Soderblom, signing Martin Jones off the scrap heap, or trading for somebody like Matt Murray.
 

surixon

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so make a trade if we have an injury? why not just take the guy they didn't want to lose on waivers in the first place?

Well they have an owner who was complaining about ticket sales just a year ago. Why burn money before you have to. It also blocks our young players on the Moose.
 

gojetsgo

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Well they have an owner who was complaining about ticket sales just a year ago. Why burn money before you have to. It also blocks our young players on the Moose.
it's 1 million... money they were already planning to spend on him when they signed him in july... I'm sure ownership will survive... meh 1 can go down to the echl and get more games then they would get on the moose... we needed a depth goalie, we got the one we signed before the season back...
 

voyageur

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were one injury away from having a 20 year old as our backup, he will be a good 3rd goalie
Yeah I think any hope that Milic might be the #3 went out the window with the way the Moose have started. You never know when you might need a goalie for a family emergency or an injury. Kahkonen is better than Delia ever was.

I think the Leafs are the only team that consistently lose 2 goalies a year to injury, but it has happened to others, just look at the Canucks last year. Always need a solid #3 in the organization, every team in the NHL builds that way.
 

GeorgeJETson

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As a Devils fan, sometimes finding a goalie in the middle of the season is easier said than done. Teams know you're in a tough spot and most aren't exactly eager to send you life preservers; Devils had to settle for Jon Gillies to finish out the stretch. Teams who have their veteran #3 insurance goalie aren't too fast to trade them in case they end up having injuries.

Ballpark goalie depth charts:



There's not many palatable options. I understand claiming Kahkonen now versus waiting to see if Chicago waives Arvid Soderblom, signing Martin Jones off the scrap heap, or trading for somebody like Matt Murray.

I think you might be right. It's a guaranteed insurance policy if you need it. Better taking the guy you know who's available now but costs a little more in AAV vs. trying to trade for one later when you need it and costing draft assets (and possibly at an inflated price).
 

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