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Justin Williams Contract Extension Discussion

Ziggy Stardust

Ziggy Stardust

Master Debater
Jul 25, 2002
63,874
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http://www.ocregister.com/articles/kings-638737-turned-williams.html

Snip:
There doesn’t appear to be anything imminent between the Kings and Williams, who is in the final season of a four-year contract that annually pays him $3.65 million. To that, Williams literally shrugs.

``I don’t know,’’ Williams said Thursday when asked about his status. ``There’s been nothing yet, and I don’t want to talk about it during the season. Even if (the Kings and his agent) talk, I don’t want to hear about it.’’

This has happened before. Williams was set to become an unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2011, then signed the four-year extension with the Kings in Feb. 2011, with two months remaining in the regular season.

This time around, Williams seems to be taking a hear-no-offer, see-no-offer approach.

``It could take away from your focus,’’ Williams said. ``If you keep it in the back of your mind, then it will always be there. If you don’t worry about it and don’t even think about it and don’t even know about it, then it won’t impact your play.’’
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I think it may cost between $4.5M to $5M to lock up Williams. Maybe a deal similar to that signed by Gaborik would keep his cap hit down.
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Too many variables at this point to know what the Kings have to sign him.

-Cap.... what kind of money do the Kings have left

-McNabb.... does McNabb replace AMart (1M) or Muzzin/Regehr (4-3M).... one frees up a lot more cap space then the other...

-Richards... what's going on with his future with the club.... 5.7M cap hit...

-Stoll... If the cap doesn't jump huge could come down to Williams vs Stoll....

-Zykov or other prospect... for a team near the cap bringing in guys on ELC is a must...

-UFA/Rental D man... do the Kings add a D man to replace Regehr? Would Regehr possibly coming off the books create cap space or would a replacement, if needed, cost 4-5M...

-What is Williams looking for? 1 year 2 year... does another team offer him 3-4 years that the Kings cannot match? See Mitchell.... he could get way more in free agency then he could from the Kings....

With Muzzin contract it wouldn't surprise me if this were Williams last year. That with the depth at RW the Kings have...
 
I think Williams will want a 4 or so year deal. This will be his last before hitting the 35+ mark. Unless he just wants to get there and maybe play out on 1 year deals that have bonus money involved.
As for McNabb replacing Muzzin that probably won't happen. Remember Doughty likes and wants to play with Muzzin.
I wouldn't expect to see Zykov next year for any real time. He will have to pay the dues in the Minors. But Prokhorkin, if it is only a one year deal, and can get out of the KHL might be that person.
 
I think the Kings are/have been in an ''unfortunate'' position with a couple of players.

Of course its great the players perform but.....

Williams wins the Conn Smythe in 2014 --> UFA in 2015.
Muzzin finally has a consistant streak of good games in 2014 --> RFA in 2015 results in $4 for 5 years.
Toffoli and Pearson probably will have break out years --> RFA in 2015. Look out for what they will ask for.
Brown has his worst season in years and signed an horrible contract just before it. I wished he sucked the year before.
 
It's a tough call. You have Brown who is a lock to stay for the long haul and you can't hold Toffoli back. However, Williams is the king of statistics. He makes or breaks lines. He is a very proven valuable asset. But after this year, depending on Toffoli, we will have a lot of money wrapped up in right wing and will have Zykov in the fold for the future....

Very tough call. We're going to need Dean to do some serious magic if we hope to keep him. We would have to have Toffoli to be very generous on a bridge contract and do some creative accounting around the team.

We are going to run into some serious contract questions soon. The center depth can't remain as-is. Stoll is likely to go soon. Left wing looks great with Gaborik, Pearson, King, and Andreoff/Clifford. Right wing is very pricey with Williams, Toffoli, Brown, and Lewis especially given that Lewis makes $1.5 million so the right is going to skyrocket after this year if we keep Williams.

The only place we can really cut is maybe Regehr, but our management really values his size and physicality around the net and I don't think McNabb can fill that role. No matter what, tough choices are ahead.
 
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I'm not near as worried about Toffoli and Pearson I think DL can get them on bridge deals in the 2-2.75M range for a couple of years. But that is still a 3M increase if it's in the middle combined.
 
Frolov 6'3 said:
I think the Kings are/have been in an ''unfortunate'' position with a couple of players.

Of course its great the players perform but.....

Williams wins the Conn Smythe in 2014 --> UFA in 2015.
Muzzin finally has a consistant streak of good games in 2014 --> RFA in 2015 results in $4 for 5 years.
Toffoli and Pearson probably will have break out years --> RFA in 2015. Look out for what they will ask for.
Brown has his worst season in years and signed an horrible contract just before it. I wished he sucked the year before.
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First, there's no but.

Good management makes or breaks a team in the cap world. Lombardi and co. seem to have a good handle on things. They've lost guys over the years, but it hasn't hurt them. They've proactively added players before they got into trouble. They've been able to sign guys to reasonable deals.

The Kings are not immune to the realities of the cap. You're going to lose players when you're good. That's what the cap is for. The Kings have benefited from the cap too, in that a franchise like the Flyers would never need to get rid of Carter or Richards to bring someone else in without the cap there.

GM's earn their money these days. You need a pipeline. You need to keep teams together. You have to know who you can lose, who you can replace, who you can't let go, when you can let them go, etc.
 
tsanuri said:
I'm not near as worried about Toffoli and Pearson I think DL can get them on bridge deals in the 2-2.75M range for a couple of years. But that is still a 3M increase if it's in the middle combined.
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Yeah, they will both warrant similar deals which means both could throw at least $4 million onto the cap space. Factor in a ~$2 million raise for Williams and something has to give. Obviously Pearson and Toffoli are going no where any time soon.
 
Frolov 6'3 said:
I think the Kings are/have been in an ''unfortunate'' position with a couple of players.

Of course its great the players perform but.....

Williams wins the Conn Smythe in 2014 --> UFA in 2015.
Muzzin finally has a consistant streak of good games in 2014 --> RFA in 2015 results in $4 for 5 years.
Toffoli and Pearson probably will have break out years --> RFA in 2015. Look out for what they will ask for.
Brown has his worst season in years and signed an horrible contract just before it. I wished he sucked the year before.
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The Kings had Brown on a very team friendly deal before this one. For what he's done for this team, he deserves every penny of his new deal.
 
I remember reading an article during the lockout about DL and the fact he'd kept the SC team intact. There was a quote from Jack Ferrerira saying that Dean never plans for the new year, he's got his board set for years beyond the next. I'm guessing he already has a rough idea of what he wants to do and it's predicated upon a few factors, including what the NHL sets the CAP at next June. With Muzzin done I'm guessing he'll get 2yr bridge deals done in the 2.75 to2.9 M range per year for TT andTP, and Jones a minor increase. I don't see RR on the roster and AMart (just because he's clearly not a 3D pairing and it would ont be fair to keep him here underpaid. He still wants a veteran D , I think. But I think he's a man with a plan and so far has managed it well.

This article from last summer goes into some details on how it's done, how the CAP ended at 69M , but ends with (and it's the same numbers I heard Bob McKEnzie mention on draft day in an interview) the CAP being around 74M

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ry-cap-got-set-at-69-million/article19387905/

The NHLPA’s resistance, however, led to them including only half of the Rogers cash for 2014-15, which is how they settled on a $69-million cap and $51-million floor.

That’s good news for the free-agent class of 2015.

Factoring in all of the new revenue this weekend would have meant no sizable boost a year from now.

As it currently stands, the 2015-16 salary cap should now easily exceed $74-million
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.
 
deeshamrock said:
I remember reading an article during the lockout about DL and the fact he'd kept the SC team intact. There was a quote from Jack Ferrerira saying that Dean never plans for the new year, he's got his board set for years beyond the next. I'm guessing he already has a rough idea of what he wants to do and it's predicated upon a few factors, including what the NHL sets the CAP at next June. With Muzzin done I'm guessing he'll get 2yr bridge deals done in the 2.75 to2.9 M range per year for TT andTP, and Jones a minor increase. I don't see RR on the roster and AMart (just because he's clearly not a 3D pairing and it would ont be fair to keep him here underpaid. He still wants a veteran D , I think. But I think he's a man with a plan and so far has managed it well.

This article from last summer goes into some details on how it's done, how the CAP ended at 69M , but ends with (and it's the same numbers I heard Bob McKEnzie mention on draft day in an interview) the CAP being around 74M

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ry-cap-got-set-at-69-million/article19387905/

.
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And since that the CDN$ had fallen 6.9%. Which I'm sure is changing many of those old projections.
 
I can guarantee you Lombardi has a number of scenarios plotted out that includes/excludes Williams and other contracts.

They surely have a concrete number set as to how much they could allocate towards retaining their impending UFAs. I'm sure their preference would be to retain most of those expiring contracts, seeing how the names on the UFA list really aren't upgrades over Williams (or Stoll).
http://capgeek.com/free-agents/?year_id=2015&team_id=-1&position_id=F&fa_type_id=2

I think they will have a difficult decision to make with Stoll though given the potential of players like Weal, Shore and Dowd who are knocking at the door to crack the roster.
 
tsanuri said:
And since that the CDN$ had fallen 6.9%. Which I'm sure is changing many of those old projections.
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This is right on. The article was written in June, shortly before the Canadian dollar started to fall in July. I'm sure Mirtle will get around to publishing an update, but he's saying around $72 million now. Could be higher, but don't bank on it.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
I can guarantee you Lombardi has a number of scenarios plotted out that includes/excludes Williams and other contracts.

They surely have a concrete number set as to how much they could allocate towards retaining their impending UFAs. I'm sure their preference would be to retain most of those expiring contracts, seeing how the names on the UFA list really aren't upgrades over Williams (or Stoll).
http://capgeek.com/free-agents/?year_id=2015&team_id=-1&position_id=F&fa_type_id=2

I think they will have a difficult decision to make with Stoll though given the potential of players like Weal, Shore and Dowd who are knocking at the door to crack the roster.
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Especially with Richards easily able to handle that 3rd line duty for a year or two if need be to get Shore ready.
 
Yeah, I am sure Lombardi has it all mapped out. Obviously he can't keep them all together forever, but I am sure he has a good plan regardless.
 
Scottkmlps said:
The Kings had Brown on a very team friendly deal before this one. For what he's done for this team, he deserves every penny of his new deal.
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Paying players for the past is a poor business move. He has earned half of his contract value wise since signing. Making a move like that to Williams would hurt the teams chances at sustained dominance.

I'd offer Williams 2 years at 4.5 per year.
 
I think Williams is a priority over Stoll.

I still also think the Kings will consider moving or buying out Richards.

A lot of kids are coming into there own and will want big deals plus Kopitar's deal.
 
Johnny Utah said:
I think Williams is a priority over Stoll.

I still also think the Kings will consider moving or buying out Richards.

A lot of kids are coming into there own and will want big deals plus Kopitar's deal.
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No point in buying out Richards, you have to retain salary(against the cap 25%) if you do.

The free buyout's ended this last off-season.
 
damacles1156 said:
No point in buying out Richards, you have to retain salary(against the cap 25%) if you do.

The free buyout's ended this last off-season.
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You're right, which is why people made such a big deal over it. Even Lombardi telegraphed it when the Kings won and DL went over to pat Richards and assure him that he would be kept.
 
Johnny Utah said:
I think Williams is a priority over Stoll.

I still also think the Kings will consider moving or buying out Richards.

A lot of kids are coming into there own and will want big deals plus Kopitar's deal.
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Which brings up an interesting point.... if the Kings want to move Richards... they'll need to put him in a position to succeed/showcase him... not bury him on the 4th line so they end up eating salary...

Lots of teams still looking for centers...
 
In Dean I Trust.

But if it comes down to Williams vs Stoll I'd think we'd keep Williams. The Kings have Andy, Shore, Weal, and Kempe (down the line) who are all capable of taking Stoll's spot. Williams would bridge the gap while guys like Prohorkins (sp) and Zykov develop

That being said I think getting Toffoli and Pearson extensions should be priority #1, although I'm not sure if Dean can start negotiating with either.
 
no name said:
Paying players for the past is a poor business move. He has earned half of his contract value wise since signing. Making a move like that to Williams would hurt the teams chances at sustained dominance.

I'd offer Williams 2 years at 4.5 per year.
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I'd say there is a case for it being good business. Players see that DL looks after his guys and the team as a whole, treats his players with class and tries his best to look after them even when he moves them. That registers with players and to a lesser degree I'm sure agents (who look beyond bottom line). That I am sure is why we get guys on good deals.

I see you side of the argument, but I think this would broadly be DL's view on it. Giving Brown a low offer could easily have hurt us long term.
 
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