Just Not Excited About 2016 / 2017

[Johansen2Foligno]

I woke up super excited today for the team.

 

[MAHJ71]

I woke up super excited today for the team.

I started last week thinking about the new Saturday only plan.. and by Friday night ended up with full season tickets

 

[Cowumbus]

I am getting excited. I just want to see what we have, if last season was a fluke.

I am hoping that we see Dubois in Cbus, even if we are a terrible team, I just like watching the fire/effort the young guns bring. Whatever happens, I hope we ice the BEST team we can regardless of age/contracts anything.

Jenner-Dubinsky-Atkinson
Saad-Wennberg-Bjorkstrand
Hartnell-Dubois-Foligno
Calvert-Karlsson-Anderson

*not what I expect

Would be so fun to watch a young skilled team like that.

It should be real interesting to see how Sedlak does or if he even gets time.

 

[Boomshakalaka]

Cheap tickets great! I'm excited

 

[mikeyp24]

I am getting excited. I just want to see what we have, if last season was a fluke.

I am hoping that we see Dubois in Cbus, even if we are a terrible team, I just like watching the fire/effort the young guns bring. Whatever happens, I hope we ice the BEST team we can regardless of age/contracts anything.

Jenner-Dubinsky-Atkinson
Saad-Wennberg-Bjorkstrand
Hartnell-Dubois-Foligno
Calvert-Karlsson-Anderson

*not what I expect

Would be so fun to watch a young skilled team like that.

It should be real interesting to see how Sedlak does or if he even gets time.

Love that line up i have bottom 6 identical but would switch the top 2 lines. Saad and Wennberg I believe are the clear best at there spots on the team and even though he is a rookie bjorkstrand I think needs to play with those 2 so by default he gets first line.

What are you thinking D?

Murray Jones
JMFJ Savard
Werenski Prout/Golo?

 

[Old Guy]

Saad and Wennberg I believe are the clear best at there spots on the team .....

For my $$ Wennberg needs to win draws at a rate greater than 42% to play on my top line. Not saying he can't/won't learn, but possession is just so important.

It all goes back to the CBJ keeping the puck out of the net in 2016-17.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Saad and Wennberg I believe are the clear best at there spots on the team

For now, Dubi is a better faceoff man, better defender, and better scorer. Wennberg needs to improve in all of these areas before he's the "best" center on the team.

 

[major major]

For now, Dubi is a better faceoff man, better defender, and better scorer. Wennberg needs to improve in all of these areas before he's the "best" center on the team.

I'm not so sure about better defender. Both have excellent defensive abilities, but unfortunately last year Dubi and Jenner got caved in with goals and possession against. I don't know if Dubi just lost his focus or what with all the losing, but he wasn't on Wennbergs level defensively.

I expect Wennberg to be our best center for the next few years until Dubois matures (and maybe still after that). But he just doesn't get that respect - I know Porty always puts Jenner and Dubinsky above him as our likely top centers going forward.

 

[Heinze 57]

I have no expectations other than I expect them to be more watchable than they were last season and the kids will bring a little more "Give a Damn" to the club than we had last year.

Everytime I've had expectations of playoffs or deep playoff runs I've been let down in the first two weeks of the season. This year I just want to see improvement and that last year was a weird aberration for a group that had gotten used to winning. I know, only one playoff appearance, but 3 straight non-losing records '13-'15 isn't nothing.

Treating this season as a growth year for the young kids I'm specifically looking forward to the following:

- Seeing Werenski at the NHL level. This kid is a damn time traveler who has somehow played 2 college seasons, an AHL playoffs, mastered the art of defense, and somehow only just turned 19 today. I think we finally found a gem in the back half of the top 10. I'm sure there will be some lessons early on, but from what I've seen he's a quick learner.

- Bjorkstrand showed real promise at the end of last season and was Lake Erie's best player in the playoffs. I can't wait to see how he looks against full-go NHL opponents.

- Murray/Jones - this pairing looked like the real deal last season. I expect them to be even better.

We're not far away and I don't expect to make the playoffs, but I think they will be a positive and go-getting group that will be watchable. If the offense stays the same, and the defense/goaltending improve, which won't be hard to do, they'll win more games.

 

[Forepar]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Major

For now, Dubi is a better faceoff man, better defender, and better scorer. Wennberg needs to improve in all of these areas before he's the "best" center on the team.
I'm not so sure about better defender. Both have excellent defensive abilities, but unfortunately last year Dubi and Jenner got caved in with goals and possession against. I don't know if Dubi just lost his focus or what with all the losing, but he wasn't on Wennbergs level defensively.

I expect Wennberg to be our best center for the next few years until Dubois matures (and maybe still after that). But he just doesn't get that respect - I know Porty always puts Jenner and Dubinsky above him as our likely top centers going forward.

One stat that popped out at me. Dubi's TOI per game was approximately 19:00 over 75 games. That is in the upper end of minutes for any forward, especially one playing with the intensity Dubi plays with - we seem to expect him to be lock down C, forechecking C and scoring C all in one, but not sure he has the energy to do all of that the way he plays. The TOI was at the high end of his career range, but not completely off the chart. His 17 goals were 3rd highest in his career and his points rivaled the 2013-14 playoff year; yet his +/- was the worst of his career at -16. His CF% and FF% were a tick lower than career, but not appreciably so. Looked like a much higher percentage of D-zone starts than in recent years.

So how much of that was on Dubi, either advancing age or decreasing skill? On overuse? On increased use/responsibilities in D-zone against top lines? On poor D for much of year? On poor goaltending for chunk of the year? On the season being over by the end of October? On a coaching change that had to hit Dubi hard?

Hopefully this season tells us that last season was more a function of the last 5 questions, and very little a function of the first question.

He's not a 1C in terms of offensive talent or goal production, but he is a consummate 2-way centerman suited for 2C or 3C. Perhaps it wasn't the minutes but the playing up at 1C for long stretches.

As far as excitement for the year, I don't think this is CBJ's year. But I am still excited to watch hockey, and see the kids and the young core continue to progress. We will take some lumps with the core so young and the vets not being offensive dynamos. A Vezina year from BobForbisalo (any combination will do) might get them into the 8 spot, but not expecting that. Just expecting a better start and meaningful hockey games after January 1.

 

[CBJx614]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Major




One stat that popped out at me. Dubi's TOI per game was approximately 19:00 over 75 games. That is in the upper end of minutes for any forward, especially one playing with the intensity Dubi plays with - we seem to expect him to be lock down C, forechecking C and scoring C all in one, but not sure he has the energy to do all of that the way he plays. The TOI was at the high end of his career range, but not completely off the chart. His 17 goals were 3rd highest in his career and his points rivaled the 2013-14 playoff year; yet his +/- was the worst of his career at -16. His CF% and FF% were a tick lower than career, but not appreciably so.

So how much of that was on Dubi, either advancing age or decreasing skill? On overuse? On poor D for much of year? On poor goaltending for chunk of the year? On the season being over by the end of October? On a coaching change that had to hit Dubi hard?

Hopefully this season tells us that last season was more a function of the last 4 questions, and very little of the first question.

He's not a 1C in terms of offensive talent or goal production, but he is a consummate 2-way centerman suited for 2C or 3C. Perhaps it wasn't the minutes but the playing up at 1C for long stretches.

As far as excitement for the year, I don't think this is CBJ's year. But I am still excited to watch hockey, and see the kids and the young core continue to progress. We will take some lumps with the core so young and the vets not being offensive dynamos. A Vezina year from BobForbisalo (any combination will do) might get them into the 8 spot, but not expecting that. Just expecting a better start and meaningful hockey games after January 1.

I think the big difference between the two of them (Dubi and Wennberg) is the type of D they play. Dubi is a much more physical in your face style D, where as Wennberg plays a more Datsyukian style defense where you think you're in good position for the pass to come your way but when it finally gets there you get a quick stick lift and Wennberg is going the other way with the puck. Both are effective in certain situations.

 

[major major]

So how much of that was on Dubi, either advancing age or decreasing skill? On overuse? On increased use/responsibilities in D-zone against top lines? On poor D for much of year? On poor goaltending for chunk of the year? On the season being over by the end of October? On a coaching change that had to hit Dubi hard?

I think it's a case of expecting him to be everything, giving him really high defensive zone starts and expecting him to still carry the offence. We should either set Dubi up as the defensive center or as a regular scoring center.

That and perhaps pairing him with Jenner and Atkinson isn't the best - I'd give them a shot this year because they scored a ton when they were together, but they gave up even more at the other end.

 

[JacketsDavid]

I think it's a case of expecting him to be everything, giving him really high defensive zone starts and expecting him to still carry the offence. We should either set Dubi up as the defensive center or as a regular scoring center.

That and perhaps pairing him with Jenner and Atkinson isn't the best - I'd give them a shot this year because they scored a ton when they were together, but they gave up even more at the other end.

For most teams Dubi is a #2 or #3 center and a pretty good one.
For us he has to play a #1. He's averaged .21 goals/game and .59 pts/game but on the CBJ he's the #1C.
He scored a couple more goals above his career stats last season (should have scored 15 in 75 games and he scored 17), but he is what he is. But on this team he has to play #1 minutes because of lack of NHL depth at C. That may get better if Wenny or Jenner can handle a bigger load.
Bottom line if you count on him to be a scorer you're going to likely be disappointed.

 

[Crede777]

One of the things that stood out to me about Wennberg was that he is very good in transition.

He can take a puck in the skates and transition it to his stick on the fly. He can skate and stickhandle through the neutral zone. And he can make passes entering the zone.

His ability to get the puck out of the zone and then keep it in transition may have contributed to his defensive stats.

 

[major major]

For most teams Dubi is a #2 or #3 center and a pretty good one.
For us he has to play a #1. He's averaged .21 goals/game and .59 pts/game but on the CBJ he's the #1C.
He scored a couple more goals above his career stats last season (should have scored 15 in 75 games and he scored 17), but he is what he is. But on this team he has to play #1 minutes because of lack of NHL depth at C. That may get better if Wenny or Jenner can handle a bigger load.
Bottom line if you count on him to be a scorer you're going to likely be disappointed.

This is precisely not the point I was making. He was #1C for us in the 27 games he was matched with Jenner and Atkinson, and had 21 points despite heavy D zone starts. That's #1C production. I have no idea if he'll repeat that, but we can do without the certainty that he's not a scorer.

I'd rephrase your line as "Bottom line, if you count on him to be your shutdown C AND a scorer, you're going to likely be disappointed." That was my point.

 

[MoeBartoli]

I look forward to this season. To watch the development of our younger players should prove enjoyable and reveal the promise we seek. At the same time, I say that not conceding a playoff spot. But to me that will rest heavily on the goalie play. When we've qualified, it's been powered by stellar net play. It's not unlike Montreal whose success hinges so much on Price. While built differently, I think we share that same success/failure pivot point.

 

[JacketsDavid]

This is precisely not the point I was making. He was #1C for us in the 27 games he was matched with Jenner and Atkinson, and had 21 points despite heavy D zone starts. That's #1C production. I have no idea if he'll repeat that, but we can do without the certainty that he's not a scorer.

I'd rephrase your line as "Bottom line, if you count on him to be your shutdown C AND a scorer, you're going to likely be disappointed." That was my point.

So he was good for 27 games (21 points). Means the other 48 games he played he had 27 points (which is in line with the back of hiss hockey card of less than .6 pts/game). Again I didn't look at game by game stats so I'll rely on the 27 games, 21 points and back into his rest of season.

He's likely not going to be a goal scorer. He maybe can get a few points if you put him between 2 goal scorers. But as you pointed out when that happened his +/- wasn't pretty.

Again if someone sees him a scoring C that's fine (he's not horrible, I just think he does other things better, unfortunately on this team he may be our top offensive C). In my world for the CBJ to be successful he's the #2/#3 C who matches up against the top offensive line. Now maybe he does have to play 18+ minutes (especially if Wenny doesn't progress or Jenner can't transition to C) and be a 1C, but that IMO will mean we're in the lottery.

 

[major major]

He's likely not going to be a goal scorer. He maybe can get a few points if you put him between 2 goal scorers. But as you pointed out when that happened his +/- wasn't pretty.

Again if someone sees him a scoring C that's fine (he's not horrible, I just think he does other things better, unfortunately on this team he may be our top offensive C). In my world for the CBJ to be successful he's the #2/#3 C who matches up against the top offensive line. Now maybe he does have to play 18+ minutes (especially if Wenny doesn't progress or Jenner can't transition to C) and be a 1C, but that IMO will mean we're in the lottery.

For the goal scoring, I really don't care. I've watched enough Jumbo Joe and Hank Sedin to know that who gets last touch is not as important.

I mostly agree with your last pgph.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

I feel the need.. the need for speed. Somebody mentioned that Wennberg can dig the puck out of his skates to his stick at full speed.. Saad, Bjork, Cam they can all rush the puck..

Then Hartzy, Jenner, Foligno come along and slowly crush you... Adding Werenski we have a real offensive, puck possession guy, Jones can as well, we will be a different team than the years of chuck it and chase it that we have watched for years.

 

[niflheim]

I look forward to this season. To watch the development of our younger players should prove enjoyable and reveal the promise we seek.

Best time for me, young team like baby's first step, like first smile. I don't wait miracles, I know one day they make it ( they win SC like they won Calder this season) but this moment ( joy of development and growth ) never happens again. I try to enjoy maximally

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

Woke up on wrong side of bed today...no longer excited

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Woke up on wrong side of bed today...no longer excited

 

[Jackets16]

I'm probably more excited for this season than any in the past 5-10 years. We finally have a future.

 

[major major]

I'm probably more excited for this season than any in the past 5-10 years. We finally have a future.

srsly

The team has more positional balance than it's ever had, and with all of the future pieces in the org, it figures to be well built for a long time.

 

[JacketsDavid]

srsly

The team has more positional balance than it's ever had, and with all of the future pieces in the org, it figures to be well built for a long time.

So has that changed in last 12 months? Outside of trading RyJo for Jones (which I agree makes the team more balanced) why are you more excited now than last year?

Again I think it's fine to be a fan(atic). But after 16 years I think everyone is tired of the team being a year away. We've always had young depth, witnessed by our draft position every year except the year we traded our 1st for Carter. The only thing Jarmo has done drafting that everyone hangs there hat on is Oliver in the 3rd round, and he has played all of 12 NHL games (so very small sample size).

The big thing to keep in mind about our historical young depth is how many times the young player is better than what he is a few years later with the CBJ (Brule, Brassard, Zherdev, Fritsche, Mason all come to mind as guys who were impressive initially but then almost regressed while they were here). Even a guy like Nash was at his best in 2nd season (offensively), Pascal had injuries, Klesla never progressed but not sure if he was better early on. Filatov I don't think was good early and never really did much. RyJo progressed and regressed, same with Jake? Point being is we've always had young talent. Sometimes it flourished early, then regressed. Other times it never took off. Rare cases (Nash, RyJo, Mason) where it progressed and peaked early, then maybe not a regression but didn't improve after 2-3 seasons.

Bottom line is hopefully the future development is better than our past.