Player Discussion Juraj Slafkovsky Discussion

[billy piton]

Look at their production away from Slaf and determine the isolated impact. Let me know what you find.

i just did. suzuki, before slaf 65 pts, this season 89.

 

[Kojo]

Matthew Knies is 17 months older than Slaf. Drafted a year prior. Scored 58 points this year had 182 hits in 78 games. He is 6'3 220 lbs. Leafs fans are going ga-ga over this guy and they should. They are talking about and justifying an 8.5 million per year salary.

Here we are bitching and moaning about the expected ups and downs of Slaf's development while he scores 51 points has 194 hits in 78 games....is 17 months younger than Knies......and is signed for 7.6 million.

I think Slaf goes for 60 points next year or more, and likely is around the same in hits.

I think Slaf is going to shoot a lot more next year, only 60 points would be disappointing.

He's ready for the next level. 30 goals and 40 assists.

 

[Tyson]

Slaf will eventually be running his own line. Might be as early as next year.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Slaf will eventually be running his own line. Might be as early as next year.

Habs need Slaf's physical presence on the first line too much to move him independantly from his ability to run his own line IMO

 

[Tyson]

Habs need Slaf's physical presence on the first line too much to move him independantly from his ability to run his own line IMO

Perhaps but eventually they will need more than one line. You could put Demidov on the 1st line.

 

[LaP]

I think Slaf is going to shoot a lot more next year, only 60 points would be disappointing.

He's ready for the next level. 30 goals and 40 assists.

In the last 25 years only 6 players did 70+ points while playing for the Montreal Canadiens and one of those guy (Domi) did it once in a Cinderella season (7 players did 65+ points). I understand he is a 1st overall pick but expectation should be keep realistic. I think if he does 60 points or close to it it will be very positive.

 

[Frank Drebin]

@ahmedou bumped a Mackinnon thread on the Colorado board from ~2017. Comments about Nates hockey IQ and linemates were pretty funny to read in hindsight.

 

[ahmedou]

@ahmedou bumped a Mackinnon thread on the Colorado board from ~2017. Comments about Nates hockey IQ and linemates were pretty funny to read in hindsight.

Bumpedou the Mackinnon threadou

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Knies plays a more physical game than Slaf. Uses his body much more efficiently to protect the puck and hits to make a difference, not just to do it. Much better skater and shooter as well imo.

I think the two players are nearly polar opposites in terms of how they play. Knies will drive to the net whereas Slaf stays outside. Completely different mindsets in how they want to help their team win. Both can be effective in succeeding moving forward.

I don't think Slaf stays to the outside. He's going to the net more and more. That doesn't mean Knies isn't more aggressive but I think it's inaccurate to describe Slaf as an 'outside' player.

 

[Kennerback]

How many 19 and 20 year olds get stapled to the top line through thick or thin? How many get first unit PP time for a full season despite producing as the 12th best PPpt/PP TOI rate?

They don’t go there because they’re not ready to go there. It’s like that for every player. As you go up the depth chart your points get bumped up.

The PP argument is a different one. He produced more on the right half wall. He’s forced to play in a narrow Net Front that no one else can play. He produces less but the PP as a whole produces more.

Looking at point totals gives an incomplete picture -- it's like you want to lower the bar so Slaf gets in and then you can say "look, Slaf is extremely impressive!"

I don't like looking at point totals because it lacks necessary context. Why else do you think I was inquiring about his Liiga point totals? It didn't make sense to me why a top ranked prospect (who would go on to be 1st in his whole cohort) would have only 10pts in 31gp while Kotkaniemi and others at his age had better production. No one had a satisfactory answer to the underlying question: was he inconsistent, was he snake-bitten, did he play with scrubs, etc. It wasn't about his points, it was about how he got there.

For the Liiga, first, it depends how high in the depth chart he plays. Some play on the 1st line, Slaf played on the 3rd. But then you and your brethrens fall into the same mistake that will be your undoing, a massive forward has a different development curve than Demidov, Suzuki and Caufield. They generally don’t produce much at that level at that age.

This past season was not particularly good for Slaf. Not just Slaf himself but even on HF some of his biggest supporters (and some of "my biggest opponents") begrudgingly or otherwise agree with the statement: his past season was underwhelming. But sometimes these discussions are like whackamole, you guys say different things and are at odds with each other's statements but the only thing uniting you is your opposition to the big, bad, evil Slaf Detractors. You guys rarely disagree with each other even though your statements are sometimes at complete odds.

I don’t debate much the ones that have a too rosy appreciation of Slaf because this is a fans board. In that 90% that love Slaf, you have ultra-fans that defend everything the CH does and you have those that as far as I’m concerned have a more objective view.

For a generic 20 year old, a 50 pt NHL season might be good, it might be great. Slaf is not a generic 20 year old: he's a 1st overall playing on the top line, he's not just physically massive he's also quick and spry, he is given TONS of PP time. Slaf had fewer goals, fewer SoG, and less TOI in his 20 year old season than in his 19 year old season (one where he was bad for half of it). Trajectory matters: a 50 pt season might be good but if it follows a 70pt season it is not good. Slaf's 20 year old season was worse than the half of his 19 year old season.

This is all good and fine and part of non-linear development and nothing to get hung up on but it isn't reflected in your general comment "50 points at 19 and 20 years old when you’re 6’3, 220+ pounds is extremely impressive".

You get stuck with the pattern of 1OA. The typical 1OA in a good year is a player like Lafleur. When he’s not available, teams look for something else, a D, even a G sometimes. Habs went instead for a massive forward. They have a very different development curb. As long as you keep to comparing him with typical 1OAs and skilled forwards that make their career off their hockey IQ your position will be progressively more untenable.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Bumpedou the Mackinnon threadou

holy smokes this post before the 2017 draft where they landed makar
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[LaP]

How many 19 and 20 year olds get stapled to the top line through thick or thin? How many get first unit PP time for a full season despite producing as the 12th best PPpt/PP TOI rate?

Pretty much all 1st overall pick. Many 2nd overall. Not rare at all.

 

[Kojo]

In the last 25 years only 6 players did 70+ points while playing for the Montreal Canadiens and one of those guy (Domi) did it once in a Cinderella season (7 players did 65+ points). I understand he is a 1st overall pick but expectation should be keep realistic. I think if he does 60 points or close to it it will be very positive.

This guy ain't no Max Domi. He's a 6'3 230lbs beast. LOL Max Domi.

 

[LaP]

This guy ain't no Max Domi. He's a 6'3 230lbs beast. LOL Max Domi.

?

 

[Kojo]

?

Their names shouldn't be uttered in the same thread.

One is Slakfovsky and the other is some scrub.

Never liked Domi even for one second.

If you liked him it's your choice but don't bring him up in a Slafkovsky thread.

 

[LaP]

Their names shouldn't be uttered in the same thread.

One is Slakfovsky and the other is some scrub.

Never liked Domi even for one second.

That was not the point. The point was 70 points season are rare we only had 6 in the last 25 years and one of them (Domi) was a PDO fluke.

 

[Kojo]

That was not the point. The point was 70 points season are rare we only had 6 in the last 25 years and one of them (Domi) was a PDO fluke.

49 players had 70 points or more this season. I'm setting the expectation high but I don't know why anyone would doubt that Slaf can't score 70 pts.

 

[LaP]

49 players had 70 points or more this season. Max Domi was not one of them.

I've never been more puzzled in my life.

 

[Kojo]

I've never been more puzzled in my life.

Reread your post.

"In the last 25 years only 6 players did 70+ points while playing for the Montreal Canadiens"

Who cares about that stat? 49 NHL players scored more than 69 pts this year.

 

[CzarDemidov]

Pretty much all 1st overall pick. Many 2nd overall. Not rare at all.

And how does Slaf compare to them?

@Kennerback see what I mean

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Because none of you have a working definition or parameters for young big players and their so-called “late development”. It’s literally pick and choose every time.

I simply gave you a pretty good sample size of players who are in that ‘oversized’ camp and told you that Slaf has out produced or is very close to all of them except Rantanen and Draisaitl. Both had their breakouts in their third seasons.

Look at all the ones I mentioned. I’m not gonna post the stats but I can assure you I’m right.

His production is only underwhelming compared to the cream of the crop. Even then though. After Mackinnon’s rookie season his production takes a dip for 3 or 4 seasons. People’s champ Logan Cooley had less points than Slaf last year and a whopping 9 points more this year. Fantilli and Carlsson haven’t exactly been insanely better pure production wise when they were supposed to be orders of magnitude better.

So why aren’t you heartened that Slaf is doing as well or better than like 80% of the oversized players I mentioned?

 

[Kojo]

@ahmedou bumped a Mackinnon thread on the Colorado board from ~2017. Comments about Nates hockey IQ and linemates were pretty funny to read in hindsight.

I remember reading that thread, fun times. I didn't post but I was a Mackinnon hater.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Knies plays a more physical game than Slaf. Uses his body much more efficiently to protect the puck and hits to make a difference, not just to do it. Much better skater and shooter as well imo.

I think the two players are nearly polar opposites in terms of how they play. Knies will drive to the net whereas Slaf stays outside. Completely different mindsets in how they want to help their team win. Both can be effective in succeeding moving forward.

I agree with all this. And even with Slaf’s ‘glaring deficiencies’ Knies managed a measly 7 points more than Slaf while being tied to freaking Matthews and Marner and being 17 months older.

 

[Kojo]

Why do you guys worship Knies? Slafkovsky has more hits than Knies, 3x as many SOG and only one less point.

Similar TOI and Knies is 2 years older than Slaf.

 

[Andy]

I agree with all this. And even with Slaf’s ‘glaring deficiencies’ Knies managed a measly 7 points more than Slaf while being tied to freaking Matthews and Marner and being 17 months older.

Slaf mooches 51 points off 70 point Cole, and 90 point Nick.

Knies contributes 58 points off of a 102 point Marner, and a 95 point pace Matthews.

I love how we play with narratives.