Of just the playoff teams last year, all but 3 had multiple wingers in or above that range. Those who didn't all lost in the first round, winning a combined 2 games.
Player Discussion Juraj Slafkovsky Discussion
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FerrisRox
"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
This you ?
Is comparing him to a genius supposed to be insulting?
Heffyhoof
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- Jan 17, 2016
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About 3 new pages of comments and 60% of them are Mrb1p and ExReHabs. Who could've ever guessed that two of the most disingenuous posters would be back in here?
- Jan 18, 2022
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Nothing disingenuous about wanting Slaf to shoot the puck more than once every game (20min TOI, next to our best players, PP time, etc.)
I respect you disagree — and appear to think Slafkovsky is above criticism — but this is a discussion board and it needs to be reiterated: we won’t all have the same opinions and takes about players and moments. It’s perfectly fine!
- Jan 18, 2022
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Seems like you’ve associated a lot of value to the notion that Slafkovsky must always be praised. Why is that?
If you ripped your hair out every time Slaf had a bad game you’d be bald by now (if you aren’t already). He’s extremely hot and cold, it’s a product of his poor/inconsistent efforts.
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Yes thats exactly what I said, hes never gonna progress at all, heck he might even retire right now.
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
And yet? Slaf is still 10 points behind him with more games played. Really makes you think.
Also if you heard Tourigny talk about Cooley youd know that the disappearing crap isnt true at all.
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
GrandmaCookie
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- Feb 10, 2019
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No?
Amount of winger with 65+ points in 2024 playoffs team:
Florida: Reinhart(94), Verhaeghe(72)
Edmonton: Hyman(77), RNH(67)
Dallas: Roberton(80), Hintz(65)
Rangers: Panarin(120), Kreider(75)
Colorado: Rantanen(104)
Vancouver: Boeser(73)
Boston: Pastrnak(110), Marchand(67)
Carolina: Jarvis(67)
Vegas: Marchessault(69)
Winnipeg: Connor(88)
Nashville: Forsberg(94)
Los Angeles: Fiala(73)
Tampa Bay: Kucherov(144), Hagel(75)
Toronto: Nylander(98), Marner(85)
Washington: Ovechkin (65)
NYI: Barzal(80)
9 teams had 1 or less in that range. No teams had more than two. Highest 2nd scoring winger is Marner with 85, then no other team had a second scoring winger with more than 75 points.
No team had "multiple" wingers in that range unless you consider a pair being multiple, which was the point of the poster (2nd scoring winger in the range is good).
Colorado had Nichushkin with 53 points in 54 games (pacing 80), Vancouver I missed (my bad), Carolina had Svech with 52 in 59 (pacing 72) Nashville had Nyquist with 75, LA had Kempe with 75, Vegas had Stone with 53 in 56 (pacing 78).
4 teams total out of 16 then without multiple 65-70 point wingers.
GrandmaCookie
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Even if you include all the pacing player, no teams had 3 wingers in that range(or pacing).
The point of the poster was that having your second winger in that range is good, which is a fact. It's cleary enough to be competitive, since all 2024 playoff teams had only 2 wingers or less in that range.
Add the fact that with Demidov, he might actually be our 3rd best winger.
Issue with that is, only team that had success (7 wins) without multiple wingers in that range had 2 1Cs and the best defenseman in the game. Jury is also still out on if Slaf can even get to that range, even his best case scenario pie-in-the-sky comparable (Rantanen) is struggling heavily away from Mackinnon
GrandmaCookie
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Demidov being likely our best winger in the future, then we have Caufield that is in that range, then we got Slafkovsky who may get in that range but is already a 50 points winger at 20. That is without considering Laine who usually flirt with that range pace wise (since you use pace). What are we even arguing here? We are set up at winger position for the short term and long term, our offensive needs is at C. We don't need upgrade to be competitive at the wing position unless Demidov bust if we are to compare ourselves with cup contenders.
Indeed
Performance excellence in sport shares many things with "other areas", however there are unique and distinct aspects of physical performance. Very hard to appreciate the nuances without direct experience or getting informed learning from experienced coaches/educators.
Indeed.
Though I'd argue that ongoing failures is as, if not a greater variable to performance improvement than ongoing successes. If anything, many an athlete has fallen short of their full potential precisely because they, and/or their training entourage, got complacent/satisfied/comfortable. The greats chase individual failure, success is a by product, not the goal.
Not quite sure I understand the relevance of this comment?
But I'd clarify that no one would know his name for his on ice success... For all we know he'd have directed his immense competitiveness and creativity towards some other pursuit that would have made him even more famous.
The intangible elements that make all time greats great has far less to do with their specific pursuit than most realize. Sport is a great outlet but it also comes at a huge cost (time, energy, attention) that might otherwise have been directed to a pursuit without the 10-15 year limit on peak output. A musician, an engineer, a doctor, an architect... The all time greats in those types of pursuits often have far longer windows of elite performance output unless untimely death or illness cuts it short.
Nah. Around here it can't be repeated enough given how many posters fail to grasp the simple reality.
Victoire HuGo
Justin make me proud
Thanks for doing the research, I was a little surprised by the other post so good to see the numbers back it up.
DAChampion
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- May 28, 2011
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It's widely understood within psychology that the most learning happens when an activity is challenging, but not so challenging that there's a lack of success and no positive feedback. The latter can happen if a player is in the NHL and afraid of his own shadow because he hasn't yet figured out how to convert and when.
A lot of posters implicitly understand that as per how they discuss prospects. Many of us want prospects to dominate at a level, but not for so long that they get lazy.
There was no possibility of Slaf having too easy a time in LIIGA as he had not yet dominated it, far from it. It could have happened to Caulfield and Hutson if they had spent another year in college.
ETA: Apparently the trchnical term is zone of proximal development.
Andrei79
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- Jan 25, 2013
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I'm not sure if it's poor effort. He seems like a very stubborn individual who gets away from what makes him successful, resulting in puck watching. I still find only Suzuki and Newhook have been better in recent games. He's been around the level of guys behind that group, which isn't good enough, but not among the worst. He's reading the play better every year and he's surprisingly good at times without the puck for a 20 year old, but the frustrating part for me is when he tries to play like an opportunist skilled player when he's succesful as someone using his size to create space.
Andrei79
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- Jan 25, 2013
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Right now Slaf isn't having no positive feedback and neither was it the case last year. I find it a difficult argument to believe that another year in Liiga would have made him a better player last year. Within those parameter, I don't think there's any relevance anymore for that point. He's being deployed on a first line and constantly gets opportunities and scoring chances. I would add that I'm not sure that his role in Liiga would have helped develop what he needed to translate for his NHL game, in hindsight.
SuzukiSZN
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- May 21, 2022
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The player with 33 5v5 points is an awesome first line C but the other player who has 34 is not good enough, is that right?
DAChampion
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I don't know if Slaf would have had a good coach in LIIGA. But the AHL should always be an option for European players.
The positive feedback would have occured at ages 18/19 when Slaf was being hammered in the NHL and getting concussions. At a weaker level he would have had more freedom to try new things and figure out what works over time. He could have, for example, learned to shoot more, by acquiring confidence in his shot over time.
le_sean
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- Oct 21, 2006
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He had 50 points as a 19 year old in his second season. The notion that he was rushed has already been disproved. How are people still arguing this nonsense?
And we know exactly how it would have gone. People would then complain that he didn’t lead Liiga in scoring at 18. Then they’d complain that he wasn’t Laval’s top point producer at 19.
You guys just want one thing - for him to fail so you can scream that you were right about the draft.
Andrei79
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- Jan 25, 2013
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I think the AHL might have been the best place his first year. However, from what I understand, he was very invested by MSL and the coaching staff, with clear goals/objectives that weren't related to production. He says he doesn't have a shooting mentality, but I find it's moreso an issue of finding space. What he needs to learn is to consistently use his size as leverage. We can see he does it in spurts, so he's learned the technical parts of it, now it's more about consistency, an issue moreso related to experience.
DAChampion
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I don't want Slaf to fail -- seriously man. I hate seeing failure. I'm even kind of sad that Cale Fleury isn't more successful. The only failure I like is Maple Leafs playoff failure.
And did you see me complain that Demidov isn't leading KHL scoring at 19? No. I'm just happy he has a great year. Hage too.
JianYang
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- Sep 29, 2017
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Over a ridiculous 82 games, which is overly compressed, yes, most players will suffer with bouts of inconsistency no matter how experienced they are.
That is more pronounced with young players, especially those who have not been exposed to being an 82 game professional. There's an art to being efficient instead of balls out on every shift or else you won't last 82 games. That in itself is a learning process.
Remember the first few games slaf played in the nhl? He was a bull in a China shop. It was unsustainable and then he went passive after that stage. It's a struggle finding that efficiency, but all indications point towards slaf being on the right path, if you try to distinguish the forest from the trees.
