Player Discussion Juraj Slafkovsky discussion

[Victoire HuGo]

I do not think he has a higher ceiling, no. Slaf has not shown an ability to produce at any level really. Maybe he can have a career year over 60 pts but I believe 50 pts would be the norm for him.


Not sure why you put Caufield as a comparison. Completely different style players.

Holy smokes. So we're pretending last seasons second half, never existed? Oh right he was leeching off 1st line. Don't watch the highlights and analyze those plays though.

 

[waitin425]

I do not think he has a higher ceiling, no. Slaf has not shown an ability to produce at any level really. Maybe he can have a career year over 60 pts but I believe 50 pts would be the norm for him.


Not sure why you put Caufield as a comparison. Completely different style players.

I put in Caufield to highlight that his rookie season was the same season (D+3) that Slaf is currently in and their stats are similar. Caufield had room to improve and still does. As does Slaf.

Your opinion that he won't improve beyond 50 points is just that...an opinion. Your language that "he will top out as a 50 pts player which is what he turned into" speaks in the past tense as if he has turned into his best self. It's a conclusive statement. A conclusive statement is wrong. An opinion statement would be more appropriate.

IMO he hasn't turned into anything yet because he is still a work in progress.

And back to Slaf vs Caufield. You are right. Completely different styles of player. Slaf comes from the style of player that typically takes longer to develop -- bigger players. That's anecdotal of course unless someone has evidence to share. I'm too lazy to look it up.

 

[ReHabs]

Who f***ing cares if he does? Shane couldn’t even put up 50 points in the AHL last season when Slaf did it in the NHL. You’re proving his point that progression isn’t linear.

I mean Shane is shooting at 20%. Very sustainable numbers. He’s basically Jake Evans this season with zero impact on the PK.

Wright couldn't put up 50pts in the AHL (65pt pace tbh) last year and this season he's got the same points in the NHL as Slaf. What does that say about Slaf's progression?

Apples to apples: Slafkovsky doesn't play any PK at all, just like Wright, but has significantly more PP TOI (3:08 to 1:48 PP TOI/GP). Overall TOI/gp is 16:52 Slafkovsky to 13:32 for Shane Wright.

Progression isn't linear -- we have two players who were drafted near each other and have the same points this season so far; both of whom are not hitters, are not shooters, are not PK guys, but one is practically a rookie and the other is due to start a mega contract.

 

[Nicko999]

I put in Caufield to highlight that his rookie season was the same season (D+3) that Slaf is currently in and their stats are similar. Caufield had room to improve and still does. As does Slaf.

Your opinion that he won't improve beyond 50 points is just that...an opinion. Your language that "he will top out as a 50 pts player which is what he turned into" speaks in the past tense as if he has turned into his best self. It's a conclusive statement. A conclusive statement is wrong. An opinion statement would be more appropriate.

IMO he hasn't turned into anything yet because he is still a work in progress.

Yes it's my opinion and I will stick with it. I predicted he would be a 50 pts player back in early 2022 and so far i haven't seen anytime that would make me change my mind.

KK best season was his 18 years old one and then he stalled. It happens more often than you think.

Edit: I want to make it clear I do not hate Slaf. I hope he proves me wrong.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Wright couldn't put up 50pts in the AHL (65pt pace tbh) last year and this season he's got the same points in the NHL as Slaf. What does that say about Slaf's progression?

It doesn't say anything about it.

It also might not say much about Wright's progression if he's shooting at an unsustainable percentage.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

,our second line is just about bottom of the league,

This was definitely true to start the year. It's not true now. Dach has gotten so much better since getting healthy and since late December is pacing at 53 points per 82 with 33 goals. That's just fine for a second line center. Newhook's lagging a bit at 45 points per 82 but that's certainly not worst in league.

our first line has been shit during this losing streak our fourth line which aside from Heinemen are not part of our future but at the top of the league and were right back to playing unwatchable headless chicken hockey after three years,i guess if you want to keep going in circles for the next 3-4 years it's all good ,nothing to see here.

We won't be going in circles. We're going to be adding a lot of talent. Demidov comes in and that's a huge boost to the team. He may not crush it right away but he'll help. Dach will be healthy from game one and that can't be understated. Heineman has shown that he's more than just a 4th liner and he'll be back. Reinbacher's coming... Lots and lots of talent on the way. A player like Slaf is going to benefit from that.

You're right about the first line on this road trip, only Caufield has played well. But I suspect that Suzuki is hurt. He's missed on way too many shots and that's just not normal for him. Nothing to worry about though, this is just a bump in the road as far as that's concerned.

 

[yianik]

Tage Thompson taken 26th OA in 2016 scores no more than 8 goals in a season his first 4 years, though never playing a full season. Then in year 5 he scores 38.

Sure , or could be like Zadina.

I'm not trading him at a sale price and it's far from a time to do a " change of scenery" deal.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes it's my opinion and I will stick with it. I predicted he would be a 50 pts player back in early 2022 and so far i haven't seen anytime that would make me change my mind.

KK best season was his 18 years old one and then he stalled. It happens more often than you think.

Edit: I want to make it clear I do not hate Slaf. I hope he proves me wrong.

I don't think your opinion is an unfair one to take. I don't agree with it but you could turn out to be right.

The back half of last season he looked flat out awesome. We all expected that this would be the new Slaf and it hasn't worked out that way. So... maybe this is the Slaf we can expect to see going forward.

I will say this though, the guy is 20 years old. We've seen this often with younger players that it takes time to develop. I have a hard time believing that this is as good as it's going to get with him. I think we're going to see some progression and I think he's going to get better.

How much better? I guess we'll have to see. But I'll be pretty disappointed if he only turns out to be a 50 point player when he's 25 years old.

 

[SpeedyPotato]

I do not think he has a higher ceiling, no. Slaf has not shown an ability to produce at any level really. Maybe he can have a career year over 60 pts but I believe 50 pts would be the norm for him.


Not sure why you put Caufield as a comparison. Completely different style players.

He had 50 points as a 19 yo in the NHL and is poised to repeat that at 20 with underwhelming performances and a team that is still not very well rounded and mature. To me that's ability to produce even in less than optimal circumstances. No disrespect here but I really don't agree with your logic.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Tage Thompson taken 26th OA in 2016 scores no more than 8 goals in a season his first 4 years, though never playing a full season. Then in year 5 he scores 38.

Sure , or could be like Zadina.

I'm not trading him at a sale price and it's far from a time to do a " change of scenery" deal.

My God... imagine trading him and then he pops. The same people screaming that he sucks now would be screaming that we never should've traded him.

 

[DAChampion]

Tage Thompson taken 26th OA in 2016 scores no more than 8 goals in a season his first 4 years, though never playing a full season. Then in year 5 he scores 38.

There is a significant cost of a player underperforms for his first four years.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

There is a significant cost of a player underperforms for his first four years.

It depends on how badly they underperform. I don't think Slaf is costing us anything right now.

 

[Le Tricolore]

The Canadiens were pretty upfront about saying that they wanted the player who’d be best in the long term. After last season our expectations were expectedly high for him and this year’s been a disappointment from that perspective. Long term view though, not much has changed. It’s not uncommon for some players to take longer than others. Usually you see a bit of a breakout around 22-23 years old. By then we’ll know what kind of player he’s really going to be.

And I’ll repeat this again, him panning out is now far less important to us than it was because we landed the best player in that draft sixty one picks later. Even if Slaf is underwhelming and the 4th or 5th best in that draft it’s still a great draft for us, especially considering the other players we landed in that draft.

I still feel good about taking him there. Still think we need his size and he can be a really special player for us.

I was thinking about this the other day.

His rookie season was cut short due to injuries. He started slow last year and then ended really hot. This year has been a step back as far as progression goes, but we can look at it as sort of a sophomore slump even though he's on his third season. I agree with you that I still think that he'll be a very good player, and that time hasn't even began to run out on that, but for our sake (and his), I'm hoping to see some more consistency from his game next year.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I was thinking about this the other day.

His rookie season was cut short due to injuries. He started slow last year and then ended really hot. This year has been a step back as far as progression goes, but we can look at it as sort of a sophomore slump even though he's on his third season. I agree with you that I still think that he'll be a very good player, and that time hasn't even began to run out on that, but for our sake (and his), I'm hoping to see some more consistency from his game next year.

Usually age 22 you can see progress. By 23, you'll have an idea of what the guy's going to be. Lots of players break out around that age. It'd be nice if we saw it next year but don't be surprised if it takes him a little longer - especially with his style of game. Lots of examples of players coming in and playing reasonably well and then popping at 22, 23. Yzerman for example was a good point per game player right off the hop and then at 22 turned into an absolute superstar. Mackinnon is similar. Slaf of course will never be in that group but it's not hard to believe he might jump from 50 points to... 70 or even 80 if things go well.

I get that people want instant results. Lots of first overalls pop right away. But we knew that wasn't going to be the case here. Weak draft and he wasn't a unanimous pick. Thank God we landed Hutson because he's the sure fire best player in that draft. It takes a lot of the risk out of everything so no matter what Slaf does it's a huge win. We get the best player and maybe the 2nd best player out of the draft. Even if he's say... the 5th best I think we'd all be ecstatic knowing that we were going to get the best and 5th best out of the draft.

 

[Victoire HuGo]

Wright couldn't put up 50pts in the AHL (65pt pace tbh) last year and this season he's got the same points in the NHL as Slaf. What does that say about Slaf's progression?

Apples to apples: Slafkovsky doesn't play any PK at all, just like Wright, but has significantly more PP TOI (3:08 to 1:48 PP TOI/GP). Overall TOI/gp is 16:52 Slafkovsky to 13:32 for Shane Wright.

Progression isn't linear -- we have two players who were drafted near each other and have the same points this season so far; both of whom are not hitters, are not shooters, are not PK guys, but one is practically a rookie and the other is due to start a mega contract.

You are constantly ignoring the fact that Slafkovsky is a bigger player and bigger players struggle more with their frame and consistency.

 

[yianik]

My God... imagine trading him and then he pops. The same people screaming that he sucks now would be screaming that we never should've traded him.

I just think you picked the guy 1st OA , live and die by it as you just aren't going to get value back to outweigh the risk. Vinnie had an underwhelming year 1 for Tampa, scored 68 year 2, then 51 and then 37 in year 4. Then he popped to 70 plus year 5. Imagine that here lol. Imagine trading Vinnie in year 4.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

Let him progress. There is no real need to rush any move. The team isnt close right now and need a 2nd line center and to make a legit defense core that doesnt have Methhead playing 25 min a night

We just watched Byfield continue to have his ups and downs. Leo Carlson hasnt blown anyone away nor has Fantilli

 

[sampollock]

hope the contract is not a mistake

 

[ReHabs]

You are constantly ignoring the fact that Slafkovsky is a bigger player and bigger players struggle more with their frame and consistency.

You’re constantly ignoring the fact that a player struggling with his frame and consistency isn’t a good thing. You wield it like it’s a virtue and that we’re blessed to have a struggling player drafted 1st overall who has already been lapped by a player picked after him.

If and when he plays well he should sustain it and prove it’s not another false dawn. So far, if you break his career into half seasons, he’s had three bad ones, one good one, and one injured one.

If he hadn’t signed an extension already he wouldn’t have been given 50m+ guaranteed now.

I wish it wasn’t the case but I have zero sympathy for the player who was given everything without earning it.

 

[Victoire HuGo]

You’re constantly ignoring the fact that a player struggling with his frame and consistency isn’t a good thing. You wield it like it’s a virtue and that we’re blessed to have a struggling player drafted 1st overall who has already been lapped by a player picked after him.

Who said it's a good thing? It's being said because it's normal. People are saying to wait at least until he's 22 (mod)

 

[ReHabs]

Who said it's a good thing? It's being said because it's normal. People are saying to wait at least until he's 22 (mod)

I think you guys who are super into Slaf will never admit a single thing is going sideways and you’ll prefer to take aim at other fans than ever state the player is disappointing us.

It’s fun debating it, don’t get me wrong. Not so fun watching him “play”.

 

[schwang26]

Tage Thompson taken 26th OA in 2016 scores no more than 8 goals in a season his first 4 years, though never playing a full season. Then in year 5 he scores 38.

Sure , or could be like Zadina.

I'm not trading him at a sale price and it's far from a time to do a " change of scenery" deal.

I think he needs to lose the “boyish humour” and come back next year with a more killer instinct attitude. He’s big and the only way he’ll progress is if he starts playing big. The dude needs to get mean instead of being all smiles all the time.

 

[1909]

The big contract, the new sexy girlfriend…. His mind and body are not totally on hockey.

But I am confident he's gonna turn the corner and reach his cruising speed in one season or two.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think he needs to lose the “boyish humour” and come back next year with a more killer instinct attitude. He’s big and the only way he’ll progress is if he starts playing big. The dude needs to get mean instead of being all smiles all the time.

Agree with this from the perspective that I'd like to see much more intensity on the ice. Like it or not he's got a big body and it comes with expectations. He needs to start throwing his weight around a little more.

Off the ice? I don't care so much.

 

[LaP]

It depends on how badly they underperform. I don't think Slaf is costing us anything right now.

It's crazy that some people think we have anybody in our NHL or AHL lineup capabale of moving the needle more than Slaf in our top 6 or that we could acquire one easily by trade. Crazy.