Player Discussion Juraj Slafkovsky discussion

[Whitesnake]

Lots of people get hated on here cause they dont believe in his potential. I’m still a believer but concerns are legit. Next year gonna be super important for him.

I believe he could be a 5o-60 points player. But I also believe he's not a play driver. And he doesn't have the great hockey IQ as far as scoring is concerned. He does make some fine passes from time to time. He's still not solid enough but that's fine, it comes with years.

My main concern are hockey IQ and effort level. he has the shot, if he can shoot it. Still not sure how precise it is though. To me there's still right now the possibility that he's 3rd line player. And at that amount...it's terrible.

 

[salbutera]

The question is not about signing a big contract. You could sign a big contract with Hutson today 'cause the kid GOT it and proves it. Juraj was a question mark at first. Hughes said that he was a player not for now, but for the future, so what if you sign him for 2 years at a bridge contract so that he has no other options but to prove he deserves more? clearly the kid needs regular kick in the butt. A big contract from the get go removes that kick in the butt option...

It’s a probability play… if you wait 2-yrs and he proves it, with the rising cap and years lost towards UFA, now you’re talking minimum $10M+ AAV

$8M in 2028 $ = $5.5M - $6M present day contract…

 

[Whitesnake]

First off, i think it's very premature to slap a ceiling on him at this point and there is zero doubt that 50 points is his floor. I did a long post a while back but if he's a late 60s ish point producer. This contract will end up being a bit under market value.

Now is there merit to question you asked of why the rush? Certainly. But if alternative you have in mind is a bridge after ELC those rarely end well for the team

Rarely end well 'cause you end up paying more? So...tell me this...what do you take....CERTAINTY of great performance but 2M$ more per year in a salary cap that goes way high up? Or what he has right now with the uncertainty that is?

 

[ReHabs]

So in the end....if power forwards break out much later on...what made us so sure that he was the breaking out type of player so that you give him a contract like that? I really thought we were done as an organization about bad contracts....Even if the guy ends up a 50-point player...that contract is bad nonetheless...

The power forward stuff is such a distraction.

He is not a power forward. It doesn’t come to him naturally. He prefers to make east-west plays — he’s rather European in his hockey style.

If the Habs thought that his game would be primarily to get hacked and slashed while he would power his way to the net they got it completely wrong. It is reflected in how confused every commentator is when they describe him — it’s like that story of the blind men describing an elephant. Everyone describes something totally distinct from the other. Jagr, Hossa, Rantanen, Ovechkin, Svechnikov, Zubrus, etc. some of the many, many disparate names brought up to describe Slaf’s play style.

The reason why he constantly asserts that he has to play a certain way is because he’s trying to change his game. Will he succeed? I’m not sure but the Habs are certain of his potential. My biggest gripe is not with his potential but his actual present reality — he has some real awful games and makes some real awful decisions.

It sounds stupid simple but he really just needs to play better and not for two games at a time.

 

[salbutera]

Rarely end well 'cause you end up paying more? So...tell me this...what do you take....CERTAINTY of great performance but 2M$ more per year in a salary cap that goes way high up? Or what he has right now with the uncertainty that is?

I take the bet HuGo made - the management strategy clearly is no one makes more than Suzuki…

That was how Uncle Lou operated w NJD, Pollock operated w Habs (Lafleur), Develanno w Det (Stevie Y) and later Holland (Lidstrom)

 

[Whitesnake]

It’s a probability play… if you wait 2-yrs and he proves it, with the rising cap and years lost towards UFA, now you’re talking minimum $10M+ AAV

$8M in 2028 $ = $5.5M - $6M present day contract…

Define proves it....'cause there's no world right now that will predict he'll become a 80-point player. WE don't see him fast enough. Precise enough. Shot IQ enough. So if by proven it it means 60-65...that's 10M$???

 

[Whitesnake]

The power forward stuff is such a distraction.

He is not a power forward. It doesn’t come to him naturally. He prefers to make east-west plays — he’s rather European in his hockey style.

If the Habs thought that his game would be primarily to get hacked and slashed while he would power his way to the net they got it completely wrong. It is reflected in how confused every commentator is when they describe him — it’s like that story of the blind men describing an elephant. Everyone describes something totally distinct from the other. Jagr, Hossa, Rantanen, Ovechkin, Svechnikov, Zubrus, etc. some of the many, many disparate names brought up to describe Slaf’s play style.

The reason why he constantly asserts that he has to play a certain way is because he’s trying to change his game. Will he succeed? I’m not sure but the Habs are certain of his potential. My biggest gripe is not with his potential but his actual present reality — he has some real awful games and makes some real awful decisions.

It sounds stupid simple but he really just needs to play better and not for two games at a time.

But if he's not a power forward...what is he? Geez, might as well transform him into a Passing centerman then. 'Cause you are not paying him to be a perimeter player that passes well.

 

[ReHabs]

It’s a probability play… if you wait 2-yrs and he proves it, with the rising cap and years lost towards UFA, now you’re talking minimum $10M+ AAV

$8M in 2028 $ = $5.5M - $6M present day contract…

The math doesn’t check out. If he struggles for two more years that’s just more cap-inefficiency and more of his teammates will want parity with his wage. It’s literally wage inflation. At some point it will be clear we need fewer players with “acceptable overpaid” cap hits and more bargains.

Real competitive teams are generally quite efficient cap-wise.

 

[Whitesnake]

I take the bet HuGo made

Of course. But even those 2 can be wrong sometimes.

 

[SlafySZN]

So in the end....if power forwards break out much later on...what made us so sure that he was the breaking out type of player so that you give him a contract like that? I really thought we were done as an organization about bad contracts....Even if the guy ends up a 50-point player...that contract is bad nonetheless...

‘’The guy’’ is already a 50 points player at 19-20 years old.

And no, the contract is far for being bad. I swear some people still think 7,6 is superstar salary.

It’s 2nd line money with the cap going up and far from being a ‘’big’’ contract.

 

[ReHabs]

But if he's not a power forward...what is he? Geez, might as well transform him into a Passing centerman then. 'Cause you are not paying him to be a perimeter player that passes well.

Why else do you think I’ve been so much of a critic? It’s not because I have a obsession against tall jocks from Slovakia…

He’s a frustrating player right now and I know he’s frustrated with himself too. He’s said so multiple times. If he doesn’t succeed I don’t need to pretend to love him — some fans here get upset that i criticise Slaf but I have no obligation to believe in or root for such a frustrating and inconsistent player.

 

[Whitesnake]

‘’The guy’’ is already a 50 points player at 19-20 years old.

And no, the contract is far for being bad. I swear some people still think 7,6 is superstar salary.

It’s 2nd line money with the cap going up and far from being a ‘’big’’ contract.

Don't look but Suzuki is at 7.8.....

 

[salbutera]

Define proves it....'cause there's no world right now that will predict he'll become a 80-point player. WE don't see him fast enough. Precise enough. Shot IQ enough. So if by proven it it means 60-65...that's 10M$???

Slaf was never going to be an 80pt player, he’s a 65-75pts big body possession W

In 2028 $: a 50pts player will earn $8M-$9M minimum

Better start getting used to cap inflation effect..

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The question is not about signing a big contract. You could sign a big contract with Hutson today 'cause the kid GOT it and proves it. Juraj was a question mark at first. Hughes said that he was a player not for now, but for the future, so what if you sign him for 2 years at a bridge contract so that he has no other options but to prove he deserves more? clearly the kid needs regular kick in the butt. A big contract from the get go removes that kick in the butt option...

Bridge contracts tend to backfire. Did we learn nothing from the Subban fiasco? Remember how that ended?

 

[Victoire HuGo]

Don't look but Suzuki is at 7.8.....

That was signed under a different cap environment. There is a reason why agents use cap % now into negotiations

 

[Whitesnake]

Why else do you think I’ve been so much of a critic? It’s not because I have a obsession against tall jocks from Slovakia…

He’s a frustrating player right now and I know he’s frustrated with himself too. He’s said so multiple times. If he doesn’t succeed I don’t need to pretend to love him — some fans here get upset that i criticise Slaf but I have no obligation to believe in or root for such a frustrating and inconsistent player.

Don't worry about it. it,s a board of opinion and some people just can,t stand people having a different opinion than theirs.

I also do have a problem with the effort level of kids. Josh Roy has all the talent in tihe world....but you swear he plays hockey because he is great at it, not because he loves it.....à la Louis Leblanc. But it,s tough for those kids to learn to really love it and commit to it.

I don't have an issue with Slaf balance. Or even Slaf hesistancy to shoot the puck just yet. My main problems with him are, I think, the 2 toughest things to fix....IQ and effort levels. Tons of players have failed because of those 2. I wish that starting next year....we see some fixes in those 2 areas.

 

[Whitesnake]

That was signed under a different cap environment. There is a reason why agents use cap % now into negotiations

What was the cap environment 3 years ago?

 

[salbutera]

What was the cap environment 3 years ago?

“Flat cap” w escrow payments

 

[Victoire HuGo]

What was the cap environment 3 years ago?

Flat cap and uncertainty around economy and cap. Nobody expected escrow to be repaid this fast and for cap to be going up by this much.

 

[salbutera]

Don't worry about it. it,s a board of opinion and some people just can,t stand people having a different opinion than theirs.

I also do have a problem with the effort level of kids. Josh Roy has all the talent in tihe world....but you swear he plays hockey because he is great at it, not because he loves it.....à la Louis Leblanc. But it,s tough for those kids to learn to really love it and commit to it.

I don't have an issue with Slaf balance. Or even Slaf hesistancy to shoot the puck just yet. My main problems with him are, I think, the 2 toughest things to fix....IQ and effort levels. Tons of players have failed because of those 2. I wish that starting next year....we see some fixes in those 2 areas.

Don’t agree re: effort

Effort is completely controlled by the players themselves - they make the conscious choice of putting in more effort or they don’t

 

[Whitesnake]

Bridge contracts tend to backfire. Did we learn nothing from the Subban fiasco? Remember how that ended?

The only reason it backfires is that the player can ask for more because of it. Because he proves how great he was during those years. But frankly, what would you rather have? More money to a proven player? Or less money to a player that might not be worth it?

Frankly, we are in Montreal. We should be used to have to pay more due to taxes and all.....I prefer paying more to top end players and find fillers along the way. But proven top end players. I would pay right now Hutson. Demidov comes in and I have no doubt he will prove how great he is...you pay the man. There are sure bets in this world. I didn't think Slaf was one of them. I thought it was worth waiting.

 

[ReHabs]

Don't worry about it. it,s a board of opinion and some people just can,t stand people having a different opinion than theirs.

I also do have a problem with the effort level of kids. Josh Roy has all the talent in tihe world....but you swear he plays hockey because he is great at it, not because he loves it.....à la Louis Leblanc. But it,s tough for those kids to learn to really love it and commit to it.

I don't have an issue with Slaf balance. Or even Slaf hesistancy to shoot the puck just yet. My main problems with him are, I think, the 2 toughest things to fix....IQ and effort levels. Tons of players have failed because of those 2. I wish that starting next year....we see some fixes in those 2 areas.

If Slaf was better in either IQ or effort levels he would be much more consistent and productive. He positions himself like a bozo and eats hard hits against the boards, makes bad plays and reads, even mistimes his stick checks, etc. and on the other end he doesn’t drive to the net as much as he could or should. So frustrating!

I don’t have any special hope for him. I want him to improve and root for it but I’m all done with fake-optimism and self-delusion. I remember convincing myself that Galchenyuk could be legit but evil Therrien was holding him down… wrong. Kotkaniemi never once impressed me but at least he was so young we used that as cover for his unimpressive play. Kostitsyn was very frustrating, I remember.

When a player has it he has it. Hutson has it. Subban had it and we all saw it. Some take longer to show it but until they show it we don’t need to insist they have it.

So it’s good we are not gonna do the same with Slaf. If he’s good he’s good and if he’s bad he’s bad. I was wrong about his development, I think what he needs to improve wouldn’t have changed much if he played anywhere else. He just needs to play better.

 

[salbutera]

If Slaf was better in either IQ or effort levels he would be much more consistent and productive. He positions himself like a bozo and eats hard hits against the boards, makes bad plays and reads, even mistimes his stick checks, etc. and on the other end he doesn’t drive to the net as much as he could or should. So frustrating!

I don’t have any special hope for him. I want him to improve and root for it but I’m all done with fake-optimism and self-delusion. I remember convincing myself that Galchenyuk could be legit but evil Therrien was holding him down… wrong. Kotkaniemi never once impressed me but at least he was so young we used that as cover for his unimpressive play. Kostitsyn was very frustrating, I remember.

When a player has it he has it. Hutson has it. Subban had it and we all saw it. Some take longer to show it but until they show it we don’t need to insist they have it.

So it’s good we are not gonna do the same with Slaf. If he’s good he’s good and if he’s bad he’s bad. I was wrong about his development, I think what he needs to improve wouldn’t have changed much if he played anywhere else. He just needs to play better.

Curious what did you expect from Slaf after being drafted?

Like the 2012 draft (Galchenyuk), 2022 didn’t have top end players - pls don’t say Cooley because he’s struggling more leading up to & post 4-Nations as intensity has picked up (nearly PPG in first half followed by drop off)

 

[SlafySZN]

Don't look but Suzuki is at 7.8.....

Not his fault Suzuki is gonna be paid like a 2nd liner with the cap going up.

Suzuki is gonna need another contract in 4 years you think he’s gonna make 7.9 again?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The only reason it backfires is that the player can ask for more because of it. Because he proves how great he was during those years. But frankly, what would you rather have? More money to a proven player? Or less money to a player that might not be worth it?

Frankly, we are in Montreal. We should be used to have to pay more due to taxes and all.....I prefer paying more to top end players and find fillers along the way. But proven top end players. I would pay right now Hutson. Demidov comes in and I have no doubt he will prove how great he is...you pay the man. There are sure bets in this world. I didn't think Slaf was one of them. I thought it was worth waiting.

I would prefer to lock up my young core for as long and cheaply as I can. That's how you win cups.