U20: Junior Tournaments of the Mid-Majors (Ger,Den,Lat,Nor,Aut,Blr,Fra,Slo)

[kabidjan18]

Thread for any Mid-Major nation junior exhibition tournaments, U18 or U20.

We're facing off with Latvia today in Visby, Denmark, up 3-1. Belarus beat Denmark 4-1.

Latvians I must say, this is our worst team in many years, if ya'll lost to us then ya'll got problems.

Click to read more...

 

[Pan]

Denmark U18 - Belarus U18 2:1 yesterday.
Here is the page of the U18 Four Nations tournament with live tickers and stats, I guess it's official: Spielplan | Deutscher Eishockey-Bund e.V.

By the way BEL is for Belgium, I'd appreciate it if you used the correct abbreviation BLR for Belarus.

Thread for any Mid-Major nation junior exhibition tournaments, U18 or U20.

We're facing off with Latvia today in Visby, Denmark, up 3-1. Belarus beat Denmark 4-1.

Latvians I must say, this is our worst team in many years, if ya'll lost to us then ya'll got problems.

 

[mnt]

GER/NOR/SVK/SUI Tournament Nov 10-12 with live stream
Swiss Sport TV | International Chablais Hockey Trophy, Monthey VS

 

[Pan]

this is our worst team in many years, if ya'll lost to us then ya'll got problems.

I didn't expect they are that bad. Last year same age team defeated Belarus at U18 D1 Worlds. Now it's 10:2. What happened and why so many younger players? As I remember last year they were mostly 1998.

 

[kabidjan18]

The year we beat Belarus we beat only Belarus haha. Our 98 class is our tanker class, it's the class that got us dropped. Great bunch of guys but in hockey terms not competitive. All the points scored today and most of the points scored in the last few days were scored by 00' and 01' born athletes, and we have some more 00' born athletes that are more competitive than our 98' group. Our U18 team players used to scrimmage our U20 players and beat them all the time.

That's why I was so shocked Latvia actually trotted out a team worse than us, I didn't think it was possible. Ya'll exposed us for what I thought we were. The fortunate aspect is that the youth are in fact so talented. However, that may not be enough for this year, so thank god for Hungary

 

[kudla]

The year we beat Belarus we beat only Belarus haha. Our 98 class is our tanker class, it's the class that got us dropped. Great bunch of guys but in hockey terms not competitive. All the points scored today and most of the points scored in the last few days were scored by 00' and 01' born athletes, and we have some more 00' born athletes that are more competitive than our 98' group. Our U18 team players used to scrimmage our U20 players and beat them all the time.

That's why I was so shocked Latvia actually trotted out a team worse than us, I didn't think it was possible. Ya'll exposed us for what I thought we were. The fortunate aspect is that the youth are in fact so talented. However, that may not be enough for this year, so thank god for Hungary

Hungary won't be an easy opponent
Belarus looks like a great team this year btw. Switzerland is gonna have a tough time

 

[kabidjan18]

Hungary won't be an easy opponent

I beg to differ, but I'd like to hear your reasoning first.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

Slovakia did pretty badly at the u20 tournament. But at least the u17s won their tournament.

 

[kabidjan18]

It may simply be fault in my perception, but I think it's sad that it seems there has been a general disillusionment that has arisen in the ranks of mid-major hockey fans. Our discourse here, which was once quite vehement, has calmed down considerably. Perhaps it's simply reality striking, however, the effect is unfortunate, as is the fact that most our countries have experienced an absurdly high bust rate.

Germany is recovering incrementally, Denmark is rising incrementally, but I think the main contrast is that traditional powers like Sweden, Finland, and Russia have expanded their reach or stepped up their prospect game and it's come at the cost of mid-major nations.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

I think part of it might be that the discourse usually comes during the time of major men's or junior tournaments.

I've always found it quite curious how many of the few drafted Danish players drafted in the NHL actually get to play in the NHL. I mean out of the 9 players drafted between2007 and 2014 all but Thomas Spelling have played in the NHL.

For Slovakia players born in the 1990s are better than those born in the late 1980s in this regard, but actually stcking at the NHL level is still an issue as Marincin's or Jurco's season show.

But back to the topic of this thread, allthe games from the u17 tournament in Slovakia (GER, SVK, SUI and FRA u18) are available to watch on the youtube channel of the Slovak federation:

 

[kabidjan18]

Estonia's U20 Team released it's roster.

I'm curious, where is Kristjan Kombe? If he's holding out for Finland...he's being unrealistic. Kirill Lodeikin as well. Any Estonia gurus?

Anyways. It's a pretty good roster if they follow through on it. Robert Arrak, Kristofer Jogi, Morten Arentz Jurgens, Rasmus Kiik, Nikita Puzakov, Dilan Savenko and Hendrik Paul-Laosma. I think if they had Kombe and Lodeikin they would be locks for promotion.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

One thing I notice about the Estonian u20 roster every year is that they always seem to ice a really young team.

Prelminary rosters for other countries playing Div IA,IB and IIA u20 Worlds are now also on the IIHF site.

I wonder whether France might have a shot at promotion to the elite given their promotion at the last u18s?

Anyway, perhaps we could have aseparate thread for the lower division Worlds and use this just for the other tournaments that the younger NTs will have in December, Fabruary and so on?

The lower division Worlds start around December 10th, I think.

 

[kabidjan18]

Yes, my bad there. The Est post was untopical, apologies.

On the topic of France, their roster is already out, and I wrote about their roster (in comparison to Austria) on my site Authockeytxreports.

Here is there roster:
EDF U20. Le groupe des 22 joueurs pour le Mondial D1A

Gardiens : Julien JUNCA (Grenoble) ; Gaëtan RICHARD (Rouen)
Défenseurs : Enzo GUEBEY (Genève Futur, SUI) ; Jules LEFEBVRE (Rouen) ; Vincent MELIN (Chamonix) ; Lucien ONNO (Grenoble) ; Alexandre PASCAL (Grenoble) ; Axel PRISSAINT (Amiens) ; Joris RAMA (Gap)
Attaquants : Justin ADDAMO (Lone Star Brahmas, USA) ; Benjamin BERARD (Rouen) ; Louis BOUDON (Northeast Generals, USA) ; Jordann BOUGRO (Lausanne, SUI) ; Jean GLEIZES (St Laurence, CAN) ; Maxence LEROUX (Strasbourg) ; Julien MUNOZ (Grenoble) ; Louis OLIVE (Amiens) ; Louis PETIT (Tingsryd, SWE) ; Teo SARLIEVE (Clermont-Ferrand) ; Hugo SARLIN (Angers) ; Kévin TASSERY (Chamonix) ; Alexandre TEXIER (KalPa, FIN)

It is essentially the same team that beat Italy, Slovenia, and lost to Hungary in Budapest plus Texier, Boudon, and Addamo. Those 3 are good players for sure, but I wouldn't place any confidence in any team that loses to Hungary against say a Germany... I'm sure some people rate them higher than I do though.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

Yeah, nothing against Hungary but I can't see a team from the elite losng to them.

Thanks for the info about your blog, I will have a look.

I was wondering: Where does your interest in Austrian prospects come from? Again,nothing against Austria, but following Denmark in this regard seems kinda more interesting these days.

 

[kabidjan18]

Haha I got into it a little more than 4 years ago on a whim and am not jumping bandwagons ever since.

You're right, things are rough for sure. One thing I've found about fans though, we always find ways to maintain hope against the steepest odds.

Another thing, Latvia doesn't look that good this year. They lost to us, Denmark B, and Belarus minus ~6 players and each pretty convincingly. They will get Verners Egle I assume, and Renars Krastenbergs and I'd take Markuss Komuls and maybe even Emils Ezitis but I doubt that will be enough to challenge Germany...

 

[slovakiasnextone]

I mean, I love following the lower division countries, even the obscure ones. It's just that choosing Austria in particular seemed kinda peculiar.

Haha, that's true regarding hope and it's something we, Slovak fans have had to learn in the last years as well.

There was an interview with a Slovak player recently who was in Red Bull Salzburg's academy and he said that the conditions there ae rather incredible, even when compared to the top hockey countries. It's too bad that not many Austrian players get to benefit from that as they carry so many imports.

Thanks for the inf regarding Latvia. I suppose they are allowed to have an off year...

 

[kabidjan18]

There was an interview with a Slovak player recently who was in Red Bull Salzburg's academy and he said that the conditions there ae rather incredible, even when compared to the top hockey countries. It's too bad that not many Austrian players get to benefit from that as they carry so many imports.

I think this topic is germane to both Austria and Slovakia, as well as Germany...

Yes, the conditions are incredible. It's one of the most modern facilities, with two skatemills, a shooting center, a rapidshot, workout rooms, weight rooms, high-tech film rooms. In my experience the boys also love having their own flats, and their own big screen TVs. Who could resist?

The conditions are a smokescreen that belie the legitimate problems within the organization of the program, why alumni of the program have never been successful. First, to speak to the conditions. I go to one of the top publicly funded schools in America. We have one of the largest libraries in America, with many extra books germane to my areas of study. I've never read one of them. Good facilities don't necessarily mean good outcomes because most players don't use the facilities to begin with.

Locals will always blame the foreigners for their problems. It's an easy scapegoat I guess. I believe the reason Salzburg alums fail and fail inevitably is because of the rigidity of the structure they exist in.

Playing underwhelming competition is the first component, and this is hard, because I think Salzburg is trying its best. The teams are usually comprised of elite National Team members of both Germany, and Austria, as well as a few wildcards, perhaps Slovaks or even National Team Czechs. A team like this will wipe the floor consistently with local Czech U18 club teams, and they do. However, the Salzburg U18 program pits these elite Austria, German, and Slovak athletes, many of whom are 17 and 18 year olds in their draft year, against Czech U18 kids, most of which are 16 year olds playing for their local club.

You would think that a talented athlete who was excelling in the U18 "Rookie Cup" program would be promoted to the farmteam to playing more relevant competition and increase his game right? Wrong.

I got a chuckle out of the fact that Martin Pospisil was given a class "B" ranking by the CSS preliminary rankings for the NHL draft, because I knew he wasn't going to make it in the USHL. His stats don't even fully depict how dominant he was. Coach had to tell him to stop dangling players from other teams because he would be wheeling the puck in circles in the offensive zone essentially making fun of the other team. As far as I was concerned there was absolutely no purpose in him still being in the Rookie Cup program against Czech U18 teams, but he was. He was 100% ready to play at the farmteam level in the Alps league, but never did. The result is that he went into the USHL having never played any level higher than the Czech U18 league, other than mostly riding the pine for a few Jr. A SM Liiga friendly matches. He's really struggled with the speed, pacing, and physicality of the USHL game. He has a lot of bad habits from playing against little kids, things he does that worked against them and don't work against bigger boys. He may eventually adjust, but as things are looking currently he will not be drafted next summer. Compare that with Adam Ruzicka who played in the Czech U20 league two years in advance, and played a full season in it before coming to NA, or Samuel Bucek who played a full season in the Slovak Men's league. The adjustment was too large, I don't think he stood a chance.

Pospisil is just one of many examples. Any number of top German and Austrian athletes are lured to stay their draft season or U18 season in Salzburg playing against non-germane competition by the fact that there are beautiful, state of the art, facilities. Many of these athletes spend their entire draft season, or draft-1 season not-improving in the least bit, while other kids in other clubs are being promoted to higher levels of competition to help further their development.

Which brings me to Marek Valach. For me it was no surprise that he has adjusted well to the USHL. Firstly, he's an incredibly hard worker. For a long time he held some of the records at the Red Bull Rapidshot because he was the type of guy to put that extra work in. Primarily, however, he was more successful because he spent an entire year in a men's league. He was older, and so he was assigned to the farmteam, and was able to develop there. Thus, the leap from Salzburg to America was not bad at all. But think about it. Valach only got to play Alps because he was old enough, and thus his overage success in the USHL will in no way get him drafted or even probably a spot on the Slovak U20 team.

That's why Red Bull fails, and the incredible amount of talent that goes through there generally goes to nothing. Other players also made the jump with Pospisil after last season, and did far worse, but comparable to players from prior years and all the data we have. Until this issue is solved I don't think Red Bull is prudent to blame legios, and neither has anyone ever presented me a logical argument where decreasing the number of legios would lead to an increase in the amount of talent being produced by the academy. One has to understand, I'm not a "red bull hater", on the contrary I have many vested interests in Red Bull athletes succeeding and have invested a lot of resources into helping red bull athletes. However, the truth is the truth.

If you are close to any top Slovak prospects considering the academy, among other offers, tell them to stay away. You may live with a loud and annoying billet family or in a run down flat and report to aging facilities in some of the poorer Czech clubs, but if you left home for the purpose of becoming a professional hockey player, go somewhere where you will have a chance to become a professional hockey player.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

Thanks for the insight.

Actually, the interview was with Valach, so that's probably why he was so positive about it. The reason why he won't make the Slovak WJC team is more politics than his skills. He said no to the HK Orange team, so that's the issue and the reason why he won't make it while some inferior players from the team will.

But it's true that in CZE/SVK the best players almost always play a level up.

 

[Pan]

kabidjan18, that's very instructive, thanks.

 

[kabidjan18]

I couldn't go to sleep...

My Top 50 players in 2017-18 D1a
1. Dominik Bokk (GER)
2. Alexandre Texier (FRA)
3. Johannes Huss (GER)
4. Kirill Polokhov (KAZ)
5. Leon Gawanke (GER)
6. Moritz Seider (GER)
7. Samat Daniyar (KAZ)
8. Valeri Orekhov (KAZ)
9. Luca Glaser (GER)
10. Maximilian Adam (GER)
11. Nico Feldner (AUT)
12. Samuel Witting (AUT)
13. Louis Boudon (FRA)
14. Tobias Eder (GER)
15. Artur Gatiyatov (KAZ)
16. Renars Krastenbergs (LAT)
17. Valentin Busch (GER)
18. Maximilian Kislinger (GER)
19. Enzo Guebey (FRA)
20. Tim Wohlgemuth (GER)
21. Daniel Obersteiner (AUT)
22. Robert Blugers (LAT)
23. Marco Rossi (AUT)
24. Verners Egle (LAT)
25. Patrik Kiss (HUN)
26. Markuss Komuls (LAT)
27. Christoph Kiefersauer (GER)
28. Pauls Svars (LAT)
29. Alexander Melikhov (KAZ)
30. Donat Szita (HUN)
31. Justin Addamo (FRA)
32. David Maier (AUT)
33. Nicklas Mannes (GER)
34. Nicklas Wurschl (AUT)
35. Jordann Bougro (FRA)
36. Balint Horvath (HUN)
37. Kele Steffler (AUT)
38. Sayan Daniyar (KAZ)
39. Emils Ezitis (LAT)
40. Maxim Mukhametov (KAZ)
41. Benjamin Baumgartner (AUT)
42. Sandis Smons (LAT)
43. Batyrlan Muratov (KAZ)
44. Vincent Melin (FRA)
45. Benjamin Lanzinger (AUT)
46. Kevin Tassery (FRA)
47. Maxence Leroux (FRA)
48. Ernar Musabayev (KAZ)
49. Bruno Kreisz (HUN)
50. Hugo Sarlin (FRA)

Not waiting for the genius who points out that I probably overrate Austrians...hastily done at best but feel free to critique or offer your own.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

I'm personally more surprised by the 3 Kazakh players making your time than the Austrians to be honest.

 

[SoundAndFury]

You should do the same with D1B as well

 

[BalticWarrior]

Our U20 sucks so bad this year compared to last year, pretty grim situation tbh

 

[kabidjan18]

I can't find the box score for the U20 game between Latvia and France anywhere so I watched the game and manually recorded. Here it is.

1 - 0 Krastenbergs (Komuls, Homjakovs)
2 - 0 Popovs (Sicevs, Fjodorovs)
3 - 0 Kalkis (Homjakovs, Krastenbergs)
3 - 1 Lefebvre (Berard, Olive)
3 - 2 Munoz (Sarlieve, Prissant)
4 - 2 Berzins (Svars) EN

The french broadcasting was virtually incoherent so you're welcome.

 

[Friar85]

Thanks for doing this. Did Texier play?