Rumor: JT Miller to the Rangers? (Part 2)

[FIRE DRURY]

It;s gonna be: Chytil , draft pick, plus either B Schneider or Lafereiere

1st,3rd, Chytil, Perrault and another contract to fit JTs 8mil in. (Lindgren?)

How high are you right now?

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Here's the thing:

We rational people wouldn't trade Lafreniere or Perreault or our lottery first round pick for JT Miller. But this is Chris Drury we're talking about.

 

[krutovsdonut]

As has been stated many times in this thread, they are not willing to move younger pieces or the trade would've happened already.

The rumblings we're hearing about this are simply intensified because it's a Canadian market and JT Miller can't get along with Petterson. So Drury is doing his due-diligence to see how badly Vancouver wants to get rid of JT Miller.

that may be so. i have had a hard time putting together a realistic nyr trade for miller unless they are locked into win now to an extreme degree.

a third possibility is the canucks are getting screwed with miller only willing to go to the rangers and the rangers trying to take advantage. kyprios just claimed that.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

Here's the thing:

We rational people wouldn't trade Lafreniere or Perreault or our lottery first round pick for JT Miller. But this is Chris Drury we're talking about.

Well, if you're trading for JT Miller you're going to have to give up a piece that's going to hurt to give. It's a whole other discussion whether or not the Rangers are in a position to do so.

 

[EP to EP back to EP]

Miller is not worth what you think he's worth.

Look at the decline of elite NHL players. 32-33 is the exact moment in time where every single one of them starts falling off a cliff. Today's NHL is a game predicated on foot speed and literally being faster than your opponents. That's all it is. And that's the first thing you lose as you get older and you have nearly 1,000 NHL games on your body.

Does that mean NYR wouldn't get 2 more solid years from him? No, they probably would. But if you're going to mortgage futures, you need more than that.

You value Miller, understandably, for what he was. The Rangers have to value him for what he will be in the next 3-5 years. And that is, another over the hill veteran to add to the NYR scrap heap that has a massive contract and winds up playing to 65% of it.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. It's not happening without Zibanejad going the other way, period dot.

When have the GM's in the league ever worried about beyond this season? Miller makes them significantly better this season, and likely next. When Drury's career is on the line, this is all he cares about.

I agree Zib likely goes the other way(with retention) but he is a negative asset in a trade for what will be the most valuable asset in this trade.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Well, if you're trading for JT Miller you're going to have to give up a piece that's going to hurt to give. It's a whole other discussion whether or not the Rangers are in a position to do so.

We're not and we shouldn't and when was the last time Miller scored 5v5? Zibanejad territory

 

[Canucks LB]

this thread needs a regular reality dose. miller to the nyr is not going to happen in the short term unless the rangers are willing to move younger pieces. people who think miller is going to get swapped in a deal that involves zib coming back as part of the value proposition are crazy. miller is a good enough player to fetch young assets and the canucks are going to want to align their core age. the only way an older ranger with a big contract comes back is if the young pieces the rangers throw in are enough to make the canucks accept an older contract. otherwise, the canucks are going to actually go to market with miller and find a deal that meets their goals.

second, if you assume the canucks want lafreniere and the rangers want to move once piece out of their core then i think this trade has to be bigger and likely involves brock boeser to make the cap work for the canucks not only for this year but next. the canucks have no cap space and no big cap dumps any more and can't take a kreider or a zib as well as laf even if they want to.

once you go down the laf road, now you have to pay for boeser.

so how about

miller-boeser-desharnais - suter

for

lafreniere - schneider - kreider -trochek

the cap works for the canucks this year and next. the position swaps work. and if the swap doesn't fix the rangers that gives them significant tdl trade pieces. if you delete suter and trochek the rangers have to add a pretty good piece.

having gamed it out i am not sure i'd do this as a canuck fan. neither lafreniere nor schneider is a huge prize to me. even if i knew suter and boeser would not re-sign, this seems like it waters down their value compared to moving them individually at the tdl. i can understand how rangers fans may choke on it too, but try adding up the market value of jt miller and two expiring ufa frontline players and dumping your washed core player contract before you instinctively shake your head.

and it's not the fans making the decision. the real issue is what would it take to get such a trade done that met both teams needs. for all the ranger fans that are charging to their keyboards to declare it's a non-starter, keep in mind your team is the one reported to want to shake up your core and acquire jt miller, and this is my response and assessment of what it might take to persuade the canucks to move him now without going to market on an extended time frame to find a deal that fits their strategic plans by getting them younger. i think you're not going to get him without giving up solid younger assets and you're not going to dump one of your aging underperforming core pieces without addressing the cap implications of that and paying for the privilege one way or another.

That's actually a very different and decent offer.
Boeser is a UFA, he could easily walk (if canucks don't wanna give him 8m+)
He has been great this year again for Canucks.
JTM is a monster, One of the best power forwards in the league.
Suter is a very good reliable player, would suck to lose him honestly.
Desharnais is a cap dump, but is playing better recently

Trochek is struggling, but is a guy who is very talented and could easily bounce back.
Schenider is a decent young RHD Player with potential
Laff is a good potential winger, but with consistancy issues
Kreider is a perfect bounce back potential guy, who could easily thrive in a tochett system.

Honestly, Not bad at all, its pretty fair.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Here's the thing:

We rational people wouldn't trade Lafreniere or Perreault or our lottery first round pick for JT Miller. But this is Chris Drury we're talking about.

i agree. but on the other side, we rational people wouldn't trade miller for zib and magic beans. and our management is pretty rational. and it's not our rumour. it's drury who supposedly wants miller and also wants to shake up his core.

when i started looking at this i assumed it must be drury paddling like crazy for his job and the nyc buy our way out of trouble mindset from ownership letting him do it. the other alternatives are it is all bullshit, or the canucks are under a lot more duress than is public knowledge.

 

[thefutures]

Miller is not worth what you think he's worth.

Look at the decline of elite NHL players. 32-33 is the exact moment in time where every single one of them starts falling off a cliff. Today's NHL is a game predicated on foot speed and literally being faster than your opponents. That's all it is. And that's the first thing you lose as you get older and you have nearly 1,000 NHL games on your body.

Does that mean NYR wouldn't get 2 more solid years from him? No, they probably would. But if you're going to mortgage futures, you need more than that.

You value Miller, understandably, for what he was. The Rangers have to value him for what he will be in the next 3-5 years. And that is, another over the hill veteran to add to the NYR scrap heap that has a massive contract and winds up playing to 65% of it.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. It's not happening without Zibanejad going the other way, period dot.

It funny reading about value from some rangers fans not necessarily you. Some wouldn't include kakko for eichel lol. Then just a couple weeks ago a couple of you wanted mav borque + bichsel + 1st from Dallas for kreider. That package is better than anything offered for miller in this thread.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

i agree. but on the other side, we rational people wouldn't trade miller for zib and magic beans. and our management is pretty rational. and it's not our rumour. it's drury who supposedly wants miller and also wants to shake up his core.

when i started looking at this i assumed it must be drury paddling like crazy for his job and the nyc buy our way out of trouble mindset from ownership letting him do it. the other alternatives are it is all bullshit, or the canucks are under a lot more duress than is public knowledge.

Desperation is a scary thing

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't see how this deal gets done if the Canucks don't want Zibanejad, the Rangers can't afford Zibanejad, Trocheck and Miller down the middle and they shouldn't be willing to trade Trocheck for Miller.

You can make it work for Vancouver without including either Trocheck or Zibanejad, with it likely being something like Chytil, Schneider, a decent prospect and a 1st for Miller. But I just don't see how it works for the Rangers without Zibanejad being included.

 

[UrbanImpact]

I don't see how this deal gets done if the Canucks don't want Zibanejad, the Rangers can't afford Zibanejad, Trocheck and Miller down the middle and they shouldn't be willing to trade Trocheck for Miller.

You can make it work for Vancouver without including either Trocheck or Zibanejad, with it likely being something like Chytil, Schneider, a decent prospect and a 1st for Miller. But I just don't see how it works for the Rangers without Zibanejad being included.

They can make a seperate trade to get rid of Zib once they obtain Miller.

I'm not sure if they will have to attach an asset with Zib and or retain to get rid of him though.

The wild card here is Chytil. How is his health? We all know Canucks need a Centre back in a trade for Miller and its already been reported they dont want any part of Zib. Trocheck is someone Drury wants to keep.

So it will come down to whether the Canucks think Chytil can fill a 2C role for them. Otherwise a 3rd team will have to get involved.

If they are satisfied with Chytil being a temporaty fix for the 2c role then the trade will be:

B Schneider, Chtyil, 1st round pick.... something those lines.


Canucks then use their own 1st round pick and NYRs 1st round pick as bullets to try and fix the 2c or the Defence.

Canucks get temporarily worse with the loss of Miller but gain assets to imrpove the team at the deadline.

Possible Canucks lineup:

Debrusk-Pettersson-Boeser
Joshua-Chytil- Garland
Hoglander-Suter- Sherwood
Sasson-Bleuger-Heinen

Hughes-Hronek
Soucy- Schneider
Forbort-Myers

Willander, Desharnais, Branstrom, Juulsen

They would have 2x 1st round pick and prospects to try and improve that team at TDL.

 

[WiLBoY]

They can make a seperate trade to get rid of Zib once they obtain Miller.

I'm not sure if they will have to attach an asset with Zib and or retain to get rid of him though.

The wild card here is Chytil. How is his health? We all know Canucks need a Centre back in a trade for Miller and its already been reported they dont want any part of Zib. Trocheck is someone Drury wants to keep.

So it will come down to whether the Canucks think Chytil can fill a 2C role for them. Otherwise a 3rd team will have to get involved.

If they are satisfied with Chytil being a temporaty fix for the 2c role then the trade will be:

B Schneider, Chtyil, 1st round pick.... something those lines.


Canucks then use their own 1st round pick and NYRs 1st round pick as bullets to try and fix the 2c or the Defence.

Canucks get temporarily worse with the loss of Miller but gain assets to imrpove the team at the deadline.

Possible Canucks lineup:

Debrusk-Pettersson-Boeser
Joshua-Chytil- Garland
Hoglander-Suter- Sherwood
Sasson-Bleuger-Heinen

Hughes-Hronek
Soucy- Schneider
Forbort-Myers

Willander, Desharnais, Branstrom, Juulsen

They would have 2x 1st round pick and prospects to try and improve that team at TDL.

Seeing that roster hurts. Depth issues on defense and forward core.

Can a top line like that even win a cup oh boy

 

[Empoleon8771]

They can make a seperate trade to get rid of Zib once they obtain Miller.

I'm not sure if they will have to attach an asset with Zib and or retain to get rid of him though.

The wild card here is Chytil. How is his health? We all know Canucks need a Centre back in a trade for Miller and its already been reported they dont want any part of Zib. Trocheck is someone Drury wants to keep.

So it will come down to whether the Canucks think Chytil can fill a 2C role for them. Otherwise a 3rd team will have to get involved.

If they are satisfied with Chytil being a temporaty fix for the 2c role then the trade will be:

B Schneider, Chtyil, 1st round pick.... something those lines.


Canucks then use their own 1st round pick and NYRs 1st round pick as bullets to try and fix the 2c or the Defence.

Canucks get temporarily worse with the loss of Miller but gain assets to imrpove the team at the deadline.

Possible Canucks lineup:

Debrusk-Pettersson-Boeser
Joshua-Chytil- Garland
Hoglander-Suter- Sherwood
Sasson-Bleuger-Heinen

Hughes-Hronek
Soucy- Schneider
Forbort-Myers

Willander, Desharnais, Branstrom, Juulsen

They would have 2x 1st round pick and prospects to try and improve that team at TDL.

And every other team would know the Rangers would be very desperate to get rid of Zibanejad if they made that trade, meaning they'd get screwed with trying to trade him. Once again, you're not thinking about the Rangers in this at all.

The Rangers aren't going to pay the Canucks what they want for Miller without having a solution to a Zibanejad trade.

 

[John Mandalorian]

i agree. but on the other side, we rational people wouldn't trade miller for zib and magic beans. and our management is pretty rational. and it's not our rumour. it's drury who supposedly wants miller and also wants to shake up his core.

when i started looking at this i assumed it must be drury paddling like crazy for his job and the nyc buy our way out of trouble mindset from ownership letting him do it. the other alternatives are it is all bullshit, or the canucks are under a lot more duress than is public knowledge.

“Not our rumor”? Absurd. The tension between Miller and Pettersson was reported by Vancouver weeks before what you’re referencing with Drury. Reading this about Drury doesn’t void the genesis of this which is out of Vancouver and it certainly doesn’t turn this into “not without an overpay” scenario.

 

[UrbanImpact]

And every other team would know the Rangers would be very desperate to get rid of Zibanejad if they made that trade, meaning they'd get screwed with trying to trade him. Once again, you're not thinking about the Rangers in this at all.

The Rangers aren't going to pay the Canucks what they want for Miller without having a solution to a Zibanejad trade.

Then make the Zib trade first then....

 

[UrbanImpact]

Seeing that roster hurts. Depth issues on defense and forward core.

Can a top line like that even win a cup oh boy

Whats wrong with a top line of Debrusk-Pettersson-Boeser

Debrusk is playing at 35 goal pace, Boeser is playing at a 38 goal pace.

Depth will be the issue for sure though, but Schneider improves the top 4 and we get an extra 1st round pick to improve our Forward Depth.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Zibanejad I get, but why do you Canucks fans hate the idea of K'Andre for Miller? I mean I know I don't like K'Andre, but the ability is there. He has all the tools to be a shut-down guy. Maybe he just needs a change of scenery.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

We're not and we shouldn't and when was the last time Miller scored 5v5? Zibanejad territory

Even inspite of that (Keeping in mind he's been playing through an injury since training camp, and then went away from the team for 2 weeks), he's still on pace for nearly a PPG season (76 points).

Zibanejad is on pace for 48 points - his season has been an unmitigated disaster. It's why we want no part of him, it's very likely that his contract is an albatross, compared to Miller. Zibanejad being horrible this year is definitely playing a role in why the Rangers are having the season they are having.

 

[Taluss]

As usual, these offers are garbage for Miller.

Drury can f*** off and let the team burn if he isn’t willing to give up a package of significance.

Thing is the team is burning with or without JT. He won't change that.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Even inspite of that (Keeping in mind he's been playing through an injury since training camp, and then went away from the team for 2 weeks), he's still on pace for nearly a PPG season (76 points).

Zibanejad is on pace for 48 points - his season has been an unmitigated disaster. It's why we want no part of him, it's very likely that his contract is an albatross, compared to Miller. Zibanejad being horrible this year is definitely playing a role in why the Rangers are having the season they are having.

I hear ya. You're not wrong in anything you said.

What about Miller for Miller? Straight up?

As usual, these offers are garbage for Miller.

Drury can f*** off and let the team burn if he isn’t willing to give up a package of significance.

WE WISH HE WOULD. We wish Drury would f*** off. Dolan isn't onboard. Drury is too much of a corporate kiss-ass. He's the new Sather and he'll be around this organization like the Plague.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Zibanejad I get, but why do you Canucks fans hate the idea of K'Andre for Miller? I mean I know I don't like K'Andre, but the ability is there. He has all the tools to be a shut-down guy. Maybe he just needs a change of scenery.

Its not really Canuck fans, it seems its Canucks management that isnt high on K'Miller

 

[Connor McConnor]

I can 1000000% guarantee that if Miller is traded to the Rangers, Drury is going to get fleeced.

So based on that assumption, I wouldn't be surprised if it's for both Lafrenierre and Schneider.

 

[Reality Check]

How could the Canucks trade Miller?

Fans were chanting his name at a WWE PPV

 

[WiLBoY]

Whats wrong with a top line of Debrusk-Pettersson-Boeser

Debrusk is playing at 35 goal pace, Boeser is playing at a 38 goal pace.

Depth will be the issue for sure though, but Schneider improves the top 4 and we get an extra 1st round pick to improve our Forward Depth.

Too slow and too inconsistent. No acceleration to even gain the zone with how slow they skate in the neutral zone